#2359 - Mike Maxwell

[00:01] Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day! [00:12] Hey, Mike Maxwell! What's happening, Joe Rogan? My man, good to see you. It's good to be here. For anybody who doesn't know, Mike Maxwell is an amazing artist and did not just that painting with Quentin Tarantino in front of it, which is pretty fucking cool, but also the JRE logo. Yeah, a minute ago. The N-F-E logo. Yeah. [00:30] That was like, how many years ago was that? Like 15 fucking years ago? Yeah, it has to be. I think you were like on episode 10, maybe. Wow. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. And super fucking random, too. Like, I get the question all the time. Like, how the fuck did you do that? You know? And for me, like, my whole, like, art experience has just been like, make the work and whatever the fuck happens afterwards. [00:53] is just all bonus you know well if the work is great that works [00:58] You know, it's like, yeah, you have to be discovered. Someone has to find you. [01:03] But yeah, ultimately, it's about talent. Yeah. And, you know... [01:08] Hard work, too. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I mean, because that talent really doesn't come. Like, artists so often are like, people are like, ah, I wish I could draw. Like, you're so lucky. Like, God-given talent. I'm like, bitch, I had to fucking... I work every day and have been grinding at this for... [01:26] 25, 26 years. There's no God-given talent with art. There's some... [01:31] People have an openness or maybe an ability to see things differently than others. But when it comes to the actual technique and developing that fine hand-eye coordination and the ability to draw or paint exactly what you're looking for, that's work. That's work. Yeah, and nothing came easy.

[01:54] I feel like there's some artists and some... [01:57] creative people who they have some. [02:00] like, uh, inert talent that's in there somewhere, or it's like we have the right brain chemistry to, like, get started, but, like, I'm still improving. Right? [02:10] Twenty, twenty five, twenty six years in, I'm still recognizing improvements. Yeah, I thought that that particular one that we just posted a picture of, that was like one of your best ones. That is fucking amazing. I told you like I probably put more time and effort into that piece than anything I'd made previously. Look at that thing. That is so sick. [02:30] That is so sick. [02:32] And it's like, that is this show. Yeah, right? And what's funny, that piece was really like-- [02:39] all the components were just separate drawings that I had been like compiling. Oh, wow. And then it like eventually just kind of formed itself. Like sometimes I just let the work do do what it needs to do. Sometimes it's almost like I feel disconnected from it. Yeah. And I had like, there gets to a point after like all the like prep work where it's like the painting starts to paint itself. Like it tells me what it wants. Yeah. It's very strange. Like there'll be a moment where it's like, I could feel something's not right. [03:08] And then like, [03:10] I can't consciously think of, okay, well, I need to do A, B, and C. But it's kind of like, [03:15] I sit and wait and something tells me. [03:19] It's so crazy that you say it that way because so many people, including authors in particular, they talk about the exact same kind of process. It's like something just comes to you. Yeah. I've done a little bit of writing, and I've recognized that in writing too where I'm telling a story, and then all of a sudden it's like the characters come to life. Yeah. And they start to dictate what's actually going to happen. Yeah. It writes itself eventually. But you have to do all that beginning work.

[03:49] like the prep work, like you have to get the idea going. And then once you're a certain like path in, [03:56] Like it starts to communicate with you. I always wondered why that's – maybe that's why Stephen King wrote his best work when he was coked up and drunk. Because he was out of his head. Yeah. He could get away from his own head. Yeah. [04:10] I know that sounds ridiculous, especially to sober people. Yeah. You know what I mean? They don't want to admit that there's a net positive effect of some people with drugs and writing. Hunter S. Thompson. [04:25] is a giant example. He's one of my favorite authors and it's a giant example. The guy was an inveterate drug user. He was a fucking complete maniac. He was always drunk and he wrote some shit that just to this day cuts to the core of our society. He was one of my all time heroes. I started reading him when I was in high school. [04:46] They've read almost everything, I think. [04:48] I even liked the Hey Rube stuff. Yeah. Like a lot of people were like, he was in his decline. But I remember when that was coming at like... [04:57] pretty early internet, right? Like no social media, but those little articles would pop up. And I, I still enjoy it. Like I, I love everything that, that he made. Well, he at the end was gone. He was really gone. And McCumber. So David McCumber, who is his editor, who also co-wrote a book with my friend, Tony Anagoni. That's one of the great pool books. It's called playing off the rail. It's a really, for anybody who's a fan of pool, the game is an

[05:27] book about a guy whose name is Tony Anagoni, who is a world-class player who went on the road with a journalist. [05:34] And just gambled across the country. Yeah. And did it like a real pool hustler would in the most dangerous, dingiest places, playing against high-level guys for $10,000 sets and 24-hour joints in New York City. It's an amazing book. Well, McCumber was Hunter's editor, too. [05:55] At one point in time. And McCumber got him towards the end. [06:00] Like there's video of – see if you can find video of Hunter Thompson – [06:05] and David McCumber having a conversation. He must have been a fucking nightmare. Nightmare. Never got his stuff in on time. He famously would destroy the fax machine because he was supposed to fax his pages to Rolling Stone. I love that video when he's in the Rolling Stones office. Yon Wenner is like, looks like the whole building is going to fucking burn down. Just panic. I mean, just try to imagine controlling a guy like that. He can't control himself. [06:35] but [06:36] out of that sometimes something that no one else is capable of writing comes through. [06:42] Yeah. And it was much less so at the end. It got away from him at the end, which it's going to do that. Cocaine and alcohol, you're not going to. It's unsustainable. At that level for that long? It's unsustainable. Everybody I know that has done a lot of coke, at the end, they're a mess. It's neurological conditions. All sorts of weird shit happens. Yeah, you can't fry your brain for that long. You're frying. And these guys are frying. Well, it's like it's the deficiency afterwards, right? So you've used up all the available dopamine that you have in your brain.

[07:12] And it's just like, well, fuck it. I had a friend who was a crack addict who was also friends with my friend who ran a pool hall, but also was involved in recovery and was involved in helping people with recovery. He was so he was after the fact. [07:30] Well, he was helping people that were getting sober, and he wasn't trying to help my friend Johnny. My friend Johnny didn't want to help. He was like, fuck your help. Right. I'm smoking crack. Yeah. And he was explaining to me the whole dopamine thing, the dopamine and serotonin receptors. Just get cooked. Yeah. And then you're so depressed that you need it just to feel normal. Yeah. You're always below baseline. Right. [08:00] normal and like a couple like I don't get super excited for shit but it'll be like something something that I'm looking forward to will kind of just get me to baseline like right around normal and I sometimes wonder like I used to do a lot of LSD when I was a teenager and I wonder define a lot I mean we had we had one summer that me and my boys it was like every two days you know twice a week how old were you? [08:30] 16? Oh, yeah. Yeah. But also, you know, at the same time, maybe that has... [08:37] had some power in... [08:39] the sort of creative aspect too. Right. Right. Even, even if it's just like looking at the world differently, which is just so common with, uh,

[08:48] psychedelics. Right. Right. Just kind of gives you some perspective that's so far removed from our normal day to day reality. Right. Right. So it's like you. I think for me, it's like, what more am I not seeing? [09:02] You know, like, like, what am I what am I missing in? [09:06] my normal reality that maybe exists, but I, I, [09:10] It could be total bullshit. Like, I don't know. It might not have done anything for my creativity, but... [09:16] This summer, the Cup is taking over the U.S., and only DraftKings has you covered every step of the way. Follow every group stage upset, every knockout round thriller, every stoppage time moment that flips the whole tournament. Sweat all the big matches you love in real time with a seamless experience built for the world's biggest stage. No matter where you're watching, you're always connected and in the game with one app. [09:46] to get 200 in rewards within 21 days. That's CodeRogan in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours. [10:11] This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight.

[10:23] Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. [10:37] I buy one, the Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier [11:07] to get best friends something every dog owner wants the answer to that is [11:12] is yes, obviously. So try the farmer's dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. [11:21] Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. This offer is for new customers only. Let's talk about Service Titan, the AI for the trades. The trades are the backbone of this country, and for the first time, they've got technology that actually matches the work. Over 10,000 contractors already use Service Titan software to run their businesses. [11:51] tech company guessing at solutions. Now Service Titan is building an AI trained on real trades workflows, not generic internet data. This is AI designed specifically for contracting work, HVAC, plumbing, electrical, and more. It's booking calls while you sleep, dispatching your texts, helping you run your back office, growing your revenue. One platform, fully automated,

[12:21] Still trying to figure out AI. The trades are about to lead from the front. Service Titan, the AI for the trades. Learn more at servicetitan.ai. You know, it seems to have a profound effect on a lot of people that have experiences and just they'll talk about like this one. Like, didn't Steve Jobs talk about it? One LSD experience and just kind of shifted the way he thought about things. Oh, here it is. With those tiny shorts on. Fucking great. [12:51] This is a document, the crazy-- walking around with a gun. Can't even understand them. [12:57] people [12:58] for the UNIRACES [12:59] golfers at night [13:00] when was he? [13:02] If I would please. [13:03] Do one of these things. [13:04] in the stomach. [13:06] Turn the person around. [13:08] What can I do? I was behind the fence. I couldn't go away. I mentioned all the cab. [13:14] We've got to get to. [13:15] seriously missing it. [13:17] Thank you. [13:19] If he was calling me everything Siebel, then I made you dirty son. [13:23] You dirty, stupid bastard. [13:25] I've had a whole of this. [13:27] - You can bring your air for it. [13:28] Yeah, well... [13:30] Well, we were, uh, [13:32] We're an hour away from that. [13:34] permission. [13:36] Well, [13:37] Not to mention the first edition. [13:39] I don't... [13:41] I guess, uh... [13:43] What are you doing? [13:44] Thank you. [13:45] You probably do better with that. I have a computer. Yeah, it's hard to tell. [13:47] Look at their computer. [13:50] I wonder what year this was. This came out in 88, so probably like 87. When did people first start having computers?

[13:59] When did you have your first computer, Jamie? You were younger than me. Mine was later than that, though. I had, like... [14:04] Windows, I think, was our first one. [14:06] In what year? Like 95? No. We had whatever Windows was before that. 3.8 or whatever it was? 92.1. Is that what it was? When Windows 95 came out, that was a big day. It was a big day. Oh, yeah. I remember. We could do stuff. CD-ROMs. I got an Apple computer from CompUSA. [14:24] in 1994. Yeah, I think I was right around like 97. [14:29] big ass fucking thing too but my friend robbie knew what to buy my friend robbie either he worked in computers or his brother worked in computers so he took me to comp usa i had no idea i'm like what is this my mom um she worked in a computer lab at the community college in san diego and she was like one of the first to start using apple products like everything was pc oh wow and she [14:59] Like, she had the first iPhone, like, early, like, those fucking apples that, you know, it looked like a TV from the 80s. Yeah. Just weighed 600 pounds. Yeah. And actually, like, got into graphic design early. And that's kind of how I started doing some, because I made art my whole life, but started doing some design, like, learning how to actually use the fucking computer. And now, like, I learned. What kind of programs were available back then? Photoshop and Illustrator were out, but it was, like, one and two. [15:29] Wow. Yeah. And she was in there and taught me how to do it.

[15:33] And then, like, I still, like, do graphic design, but it's, like, it's from, like, I still use the techniques from, like, 1999. Well, it kind of shows you that there's a lot of, like, untapped comedic talent in the tech industry because – [15:49] Memes were one of the first forms of new comedy that hit the Internet. And it had to be by someone who knew how to work the old school Photoshop. Yeah. So you had to have some... [16:03] technical understanding of the programs. You had a view. There's probably people that were using them already. You know, there were graphic artists and they were like, fuck this guy. Let's make a funny meme. Yeah, because I mean, before before that, you had to do everything by hand. It was a lot of like cut and paste and like, yeah, yeah. [16:20] And like different techniques. It was everything was by hand. When did memes, like really funny memes, first start appearing? I had to. I feel like it has to be like 2000. 99, 2000. The Internet meme. Oh, here we go. Richard Dawkins concept 1972. 1972. [16:35] Right. But internet. That was that book that he had, right? The Selfish Gene. Wasn't it in that? That Dancing Baby was coming up. Yeah, I feel like that's the earliest. The Dancing Baby was the first? Yeah, from like a TV show. Oh, yeah. A terrible animated Dancing Baby. What year was that? [16:55] Bro, that's the stuff of nightmares. If you're in the woods, you see a dancing baby that looks like that. The Uncanny Valley dancing baby. That would be so scary. Imagine if you saw it in the woods. You would have to punt it. Bro, you'd have to run. If you kick it, it grabs a hold of you and bites you like a wolf. Yeah, but what if it runs like fucking 100 miles an hour? Well, you're going to find out. At least you'll find out. Actually, if you run, it's worse because then you're tired and it's probably right there watching you. You're just trying to catch your breath. Yeah.

[17:25] on your chest. [17:27] No, no, no. It stays just far enough from you that you think you have to run. If it's really trying to scare you, it doesn't want to jump on you. [17:35] And once it gets really close for a long time. Yeah. For a long time. So it wears everything out. You want to wear it out. [17:43] That's how you do it if you're chasing a person. [17:46] You don't just run up on them. That just spoils all the fun. Isn't that like the old school hunters too? Just like chasing a pack of deer for fucking hours? Oh, yeah. That's why human beings can run so long. But that's a different thing. They're overheating them. It's called persistence hunting. [18:02] Yeah. That's why there's so many amazing marathon runners come from that part of the world. [18:07] Because, like, these guys have a history of literally running animals to their death. Right. Fucking freeze. Who had to figure that out, too? Who's like, well, I got five miles in me. Yeah, let me just. Shit, I need ten. Let me just keep running until this deer stops running. Like, how would you ever think that a deer, you would eventually catch it? [18:27] Yeah. Especially if they're so fucking fast. They're so fucking fast. Like, how would you think that one day that antelope was going to get tired? Like, how would you even have that in your head? Yeah. That it couldn't just take a break? It's going to be 300 yards ahead of you like that. I love those thoughts. Take a break, catch its breath. [18:42] They didn't even know that the issue is the animals don't have sweat glands. [18:46] So they overheat. Shit. [18:48] Yeah. So we have sweat glands. And of course, they weren't biologists. So they also didn't know that either. Well, that's why we're so weird. We're such a weird animal.

[18:58] And that our bodies really can kind of adapt to different climates and they self-cool and regulate. Like some animals, if they're outside of their climate range, they're fucked. Yeah. Like they're in deep shit. Yeah. You know, like Marshall over here. [19:11] Where are you, buddy? [19:13] Oh, he's right here. He's right beside me. We have to, you know, if we're going to exercise in Texas, we have to do it in the morning. Right. Or we have to jump in the pool because, you know, his body's adapted for cold. He's got this crazy wool coat that he wears everywhere he goes. Yeah. It sucks. But for us, man, we sweat. And they figured out, I guess, a long time ago that these animals, if you just keep running after them, eventually they just can't do it anymore. And then they lay down. [19:42] And then you fucking stab them. Yeah, that's so fucking wild. But it made insane runners. [19:49] Yeah. The only way you're going to feed your children is if you run after that deer, bro. You're going to become a fucking runner. And now the evolutionary process is like you go to the Olympics. Yeah. Yeah. And they have you like this on the cover of Wheaties. [20:03] It really is interesting because before I started doing jujitsu, that was what I was doing. I was running. Oh. But it just got fucking boring. Yeah. It got boring. And that's when I was like, okay, I got to find something else. [20:19] Most people, the problem they have with the gym. [20:20] And jiu-jitsu is the opposite of boring. Jiu-jitsu is... [20:24] It's one of the most rewarding things in life because it's super hard to do.

[20:29] It's really good for your head. [20:31] Like, jujitsu people in general, like, you get dickheads in all walks of life. Sure. And female dickheads, too. [20:37] uh, [20:38] But, for lack of a better word, but you... [20:41] you get the nicest people. Like for the most part, you get people of character. Yeah. Because you have to have character to stick it out. Yeah. To be doing jujitsu. If you've been doing jujitsu eight years, [20:52] I can 99% sure I can hang out with you. Yeah, exactly. You're a dude who's got his shit together. It's almost like we're distant family members or something. 100%. Yeah. [21:01] 100%. It's like you recognize you've been through this thing. I started doing jujitsu in 96. [21:07] So, in 96, I was at Carlson Grace's place. How old were you? [21:13] 29? 29? [21:14] 29? Yeah, see, I started at 30. Yeah, around the same time. And I started right after, it was kind of like [21:22] a year or two after I first saw the UFC. [21:25] You know, it was right around that time. Yeah. And so I started at Carlson Gracie's place in... [21:30] in LA that was right down the street from the comedy store. It was real close to the comedy store. And that was when Vitor Balfour was, he had just fought John Hess in Hawaii. Yeah. And he was about to enter the UFC. And that was that first crew in California from Brazil, too. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Marillo Bustamante. You know, there was a whole ton of these guys that came from Brazil. I think Medeiros was there, too. Mario Sperry was there. Uh-huh.

[22:00] dude yeah when i was a white belt that's why and he didn't have no idea who the fuck i was because i wasn't anybody i wasn't famous at all yeah and uh he was the fucking nicest guy in the world man yeah you know he he split mario spare explained to us how he got his triangle really good he would make his girlfriend sit in his guard and he would just triangle and she would complain like stop stop just let me do this let me let me use your body to practice triangles i mean because that's [22:30] use it. I have one of them. I used to have a Gracie dummy back home in LA. Yeah, every gym has one that just sits in the corner and nobody fucking knows. You really want to do it with people. Yeah. It's just, you know, the difference between the rolling and the drilling. It's like, the people that get really good, they put the shitty work in. Yeah. You know, the long drilling sessions, that boring ass shit. Yeah, you have to. I have, because I teach now. And, like, I... What belt do you know? I'm a black belt. Oh, [23:00] What were you? [23:02] I was probably a purple belt. How did we meet? Shit. [23:07] I don't even remember how we met because it was so long ago. Well, yeah, like I get the question all the time. I couldn't even answer their questions. That's funny. [23:16] Well, so my sister worked at the comedy store in La Jolla. [23:20] as a waitress. She's a nurse now. Um... [23:24] And you were doing a show somewhere downtown at the Balboa Theater, maybe? Yeah. And it was sold out.

[23:33] And I just hit her up and was like, hey, do you think you can give me tickets? Because she knew everybody from the store in La Jolla. And Ari ended up getting... [23:42] a pair of tickets for me. And so I went to the show, whatever. Did you know Ari already? My sister was friends with Ari. Oh, okay. Yeah, I didn't know anybody yet. [23:52] And, uh... [23:54] And maybe two weeks later, she hits me up. She's like, hey, can you do a poster for our marquee for – it was Ari – [24:03] Um... [24:04] Tony Hinchcliffe. [24:06] And it was supposed to be Duncan Trussell. [24:10] But... [24:12] Maybe it was Duncan, but regardless. [24:16] And... [24:17] From what I remember, you must have seen that poster. [24:20] At some point. That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. And then we did the Atlanta 420 show. [24:26] Oh, yeah. Yeah. So that was probably... I feel like I met you before, because I popped in on one of those... [24:33] Those Ice House Chronicles from back in the day. Oh, those were fun. Look at that one, man. What a great one. Yeah, that was the 420 show. So that was 2012. [24:42] God damn time flies, son. And so that ended up becoming the graphic for the logo. We had the microphone. [24:49] It's perfect. [24:51] Duncan with the little hit of acid on his tongue? It's the perfect logo. I mean, you fucking nailed it. [24:57] Now it's everywhere. [24:58] That's got to be weird. Yeah, it's fucking strange. It's on this mug. Almost disconnected from it. Yeah, dog. Yeah, of course it's grown. It's its own thing. But every time I see it, I drew that by hand.

[25:12] I have the ink drawings still. That's crazy. Yeah, it's pretty fucking wild. [25:18] I put stuff out into the world all the time. I have thousands of paintings, thousands of different fucking places. But, I mean, more people see... [25:27] this image than... [25:30] guaranteed all the other ones. Well, more people see that image than anything else I've ever done. Yeah. That image is everywhere. Yeah. That's pretty wild. What a fucking weird trip, right? I mean, I went to the show on Tuesday. [25:41] And you were doing the Q&A at the end. And somebody had asked you about what your goals are. Yeah. And you were like... [25:50] I don't have any. And I'm kind of in that same routine where like what I was saying, like I do the work, zero expectations. [25:58] Like what happens will happen, and I'm just along for the ride. [26:04] As long as you put the actual energy into the work, I think, at least for me and you, [26:10] That's the way to do it. There's a lot of people out there with vision boards. I was talking to this dude the other day. He's got this vision board. He's got all these goals he wants for his company and goals he wants for his life. I'm like, I get it. That probably works too. That probably works too. But for me... [26:27] I just only I feel like I only want to think about the process. I want to put all my energy into thinking about the process. Because that's the rewarding part for a creator, right? Like me in the studio by myself painting. I get that clear mind. Right. Where it's like I feel like I fucking meditate.

[26:45] six hours a day [26:48] Just from work. Every day, just from work. Because at some point in the painting process, like the paintbrush turns into a mantra almost to where like everything in my mind, just like in jujitsu, like everything shuts off because we're in a hyper focused like mode of painting. [27:05] accomplishing a task. Right. And that's for me, painting all the reward is that. [27:11] Yeah. It's those moments. Even when I fucking hate it, because there's plenty of times where I'm like this motherfucking painting. Like, I can't get it. Like, I know where I want it to go. But it's like, well, first, you're going to have to take 35 fucking steps before you can get there. Right. And my, you know, like. [27:28] I know that, like, the finishing a painting is a little bit like a drug. [27:33] I don't know if you've ever experienced this, maybe after getting off stage or something, but it's like there's a little dopamine reward when it's complete and done. You're like, "Oh, look at that." Yeah, it's like catching your breath. Yeah. I used to feel like that with sketches. I used to feel like that with drawings, but on a smaller scale, obviously. I think it's the same thing with martial arts. Because people always talk about martial arts as being a moving meditation. [28:00] I think – and if you thought about martial arts, like if you were a white belt and you thought about all the time that it's going to take before you become a black belt, you're like, oh, my God. Yeah. I can't do this. But if you just think about the process – [28:13] The process will get you there. Yeah. You just have to just only be thinking about this idea, this process of improvement, of dialing it in. And people oftentimes refer to martial arts as a moving meditation because to do it right, you're kind of out of your own way.

[28:30] Did you do much striking? I did a year of Muay Thai. [28:35] I got punched in the face a lot. I actually found my brain not functioning quite the same way. Oh, from getting hit? Yeah. And I even found myself, like, getting frustrated, which was stupid. Right. [28:49] To be fair? Yeah. Well, like, in the process of Muay Thai. Oh, okay. [28:55] I had a coach, and this was forever ago, who was kind of a prick. And he had eight morning students who knew different. [29:03] fucking dick and [29:06] We were terrible, you know? Oh, and he wanted to be coaching pros, right? That's what it seemed like. Yeah, that's common. Very distant and, like, phoning it in. Ugh. And I recognized myself kind of getting frustrated with it, but when I was in jiu-jitsu class, if somebody caught me in something, I found myself laughing. [29:23] Interesting. To where I was like, wow, I never got frustrated. I never got down on myself. My whole first year, I don't think I tapped a single person my first year. I was in a tough gym. It was a Noguera gym. [29:39] And so the whole first year of them being open, it was just like the MMA guys were in there. It was like pros training for a year or six months. And then they opened it up to the public, which is what I got in. And it was just ass whoopings every day. I remember my first class like it was yesterday. When we got to sparring, I just looked at another white belt. It was like, okay, let's try.

[30:09] doing and the coach was like [30:11] Hey, and like grabbed his purple belt who's now he owns Del Mar Jiu Jitsu. [30:17] Uh... [30:19] in San Diego, he came over, he was a purple belt, just this fucking, like, vanilla gorilla, and hip-tossed me. Oh, no. And I was like, what the fuck was that? Like, I had no idea what had happened. I was on my back, you know, trying to catch my breath, like, holy shit, what was that? And at that moment, like, I knew I, like, I thought I was tough. [30:38] I thought I had a little bit of toughness in me, and that was just a complete humbling experience, but also encouraging. [30:47] Like, I feel like it was that singular hip toss, like, led me to be a black belt. Interesting. So because it was so overwhelming, you were like, I need to learn that. Yeah. [30:58] Yeah. Yeah. And I was at kind of like a weird phase. So that was probably like around 2008 when shit seemed to be – it was like a little moment of like everything was going to shit. And like I had this weird feeling of like – Oh, this is like the financial crisis. Yeah. This was when the banks collapsed. Yeah, and everybody's money was weird. The mortgage collapsed thing. Yeah. And I felt like if shit hits the fan – [31:21] Like maybe I should know how to do something, which is such a weird. Yeah. That's a crazy thought. It's fairly abstract. Like to me, it wasn't like I was like super concerned or like really serious about it. But I had the thought of like if I need to defend myself or if I need. And that's why I was running, too. It's like if I need to fucking chase down a deer in.

[31:42] you know, until it overheats. Right. And it ended up just being a little bit of a motivation. And then I just found the joy in it. I always said, if I ever opened a jujitsu gym, I would call it fun jujitsu. [31:53] Nobody steal that. Just because, I mean, I was talking to Zach, your security guard, at the comedy club. [32:04] Like, for me, I don't get into street fights. I haven't been in a street fight since I was a teenager. Yeah, me too. You know? Like, I've broken up fights more often than I've got into them. You know, one thing I do find that's really disconcerting... [32:18] when fights break out, [32:20] I don't get nervous. How beautiful is that? I've had that because I remember when fights would break out. Your anxiety shoots up, your heart rate. I get weird if someone close to me is with me and I'm worried about their danger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the fact that two people are fighting, I'm so used to it. It's weird. I stopped a bar fight a couple years ago where a group of guys attacked this dude. One of them got a hold of him and he sunk in a guillotine. [32:50] like all the way up over the shoulder, you know, like was not letting him tap was not letting him out. No, no, no. And I saw it all sort of kind of unfolding. And I ran up there and I just whispered in his ear, if you do jujitsu, you should probably let go right now. [33:05] that calm. He like looked at me [33:07] Let go. Dude was out cold. I actually grabbed the guy who was out cold and picked his feet up. That's a great way to handle it, the way you talk to him. Yeah. And he immediately looked at me like, okay, yeah, I hear what you're saying. I'm going to let go. This could be the difference between nothing happens to you. You're just defending yourself and you're going to jail for a long time because this guy's dead. Yeah. Yeah.

[33:28] Yeah. Especially if the guy's out, you're still holding on to it. Yeah. Ooh. Yeah. And it was quick. It was tight. He might not have known he was out, but I mean. He was probably so jumped up with adrenaline. Yeah. He had his girlfriend with him. Yeah. Dude, street fights are stupid. So dumb. And if I see them, I just get the fuck away. But what's just weird that I've seen so many people beat people up. Yeah. [33:58] fist fights in person than me. [34:01] Yeah, I can't imagine, especially at that close range. At close range with world-class fighters. Because when you're in at a UFC event, those fights feel so much more intense and so much more visceral when you're there. You've got to come with me to the apex. [34:18] The Apex is the place to see fights. Yeah. The Apex Center is the UFC's private little auditorium. It's tiny. It only seats like 100 people. Is that where they were doing the fights during COVID? Yes. Yeah. Dude, I saw Francis Ngannou versus Stipe Miocic in a small cage with no audience. That's wild. It was wild. Those sounds are sounds you don't hear. Bro, it was wild. Yeah. [34:48] kicks without all the cheering yeah to hear that sound it's a different thing man because you're you're experiencing what that fighter is experiencing not you're not getting the pain but the thud the force that you feel it different yeah you feel like through the arena you feel that small little room you feel it and i remember concussion in the air when he collapsed when he hit him with the left hook and dropped him and then punched him when he was down i was like oh my god

[35:18] It was so different than seeing it in an arena. It was so intimate. It's like, I always say that it's like the difference between going to see an acoustic concert. [35:26] and going to see a concert in a gigantic arena. Right. You know, you go see someone in a club doing an acoustic set, like Gary Clark Jr. did an acoustic set. It's different. Like, wow, this is intimate. This is cool. That's why I always like the prelim fights for the few fights that I've gone to. Right. And it's interesting. I noticed myself getting nervous for the fighter, especially that first fight, like first prelim. There's only like 10 people in the room. Yeah. It's weird. Yeah. That walkout moment is so peculiar. Yes. [35:56] Very peculiar. And I don't know if everybody else feels it, but it's like I can almost feel their anxiety as they're walking out. And some guys, you don't feel that at all. You just feel this confidence, this crazy confidence. That's fascinating, too, that guys can get so good and work themselves into a headspace where they – like Ilya Teporia. He walks in there like he's already won. He celebrates the night before. He has a celebration dinner with all his friends and family the night before the fight. [36:26] that has not a doubt in the world. No doubt. I wonder how much of that comes from... [36:31] everything that he's done so far, like just a supreme confidence? Oh, it's definitely from that. But maybe it was there before. I think he's touched by the universe. I think there's certain people that have a talent, obviously hard work, obviously discipline, obviously intelligence, obviously great trainers. All those things are – you can't get past the technique that he has, but there's an understanding of what to do and how to do it and when to do it

[37:01] That's above and beyond. And I see this all the time where it's like two people who seem like they would be equal in skills or – [37:09] Even just in knowledge, right? Yeah. But one of them can completely outshine the other. Well, you learn early on in martial arts that it's all hard work, but there's certain dudes that have physical attributes that are just freakish. Yeah. They're freakish. Like the first thing that I – my first introduction to real like high-level martial arts was this guy named John Lee. And John Lee was the national light heavyweight champion in Taekwondo at the time. [37:39] for the World Cup. [37:41] And I was leaving with my friend Jimmy. We were coming home from a baseball game. We were coming home from Fenway Park. And we just passed by this Taekwondo school. [37:51] I was like, let's go up. We're waiting for the T. The T takes forever. It's a train. It's always packed. Everybody's leaving the baseball game at the same time. It's going to be a mob scene. Let it die down for a little bit. Let's go check out this Taekwondo class. And as we're walking up the stairs, I hear, ka-chunk! Yeah. Ka-chunk! Like this crazy noise, like a thump and then a rattle of chains. [38:12] That's what I was hearing. And it was this dude practicing a spinning back kick on the back in his prime. Big, long dude who had fucking ferocious power. He was just bending this bag in half. Yeah. And I was 14. And I was like, holy shit. I think I was 15. It was the summer of my 15th birthday. But I changed my life.

[38:36] I was like, [38:37] I need to learn how to do that. Like, that's crazy. But then... [38:42] After a while, I realized, like, not everybody can do that. Like, there's guys that are, like, high-level guys that can't do it. That guy can do. That guy had some weird gift. He had a weird power gift. Yeah. Even sometimes just biology, like how your body is shaped. It's 100% biology. [38:56] when it comes to power. [38:58] Like if you have tiny hands and sloped shoulders and girl hips, good luck. [39:05] There's no way you're going to generate John Lee-type power. Yeah. And that's like I can't punch to save my life, but I got these long, skinny-ass arms. Like I'll darts the fuck out of you. Oh, they're perfect for jiu-jitsu. Yeah. Long arms and thin arms are perfect for jiu-jitsu because it's all leverage, man. [39:28] by a smaller person. Yeah. [39:29] A person like quite a bit, 30 pounds lighter than you and just runs through you. And you're like, wow. Yeah. Like, okay, it's not about strength at all. No. It's about skill, knowledge, technique. Timing. Timing. Timing is fucking everything. Timing is a lot. But you have to know what to do with the timing. Yeah. And you got to be on time. Yeah, you have to have technique. You have to have technique. Your technique has to be sure. Because there's some guys like... [39:51] Some guys, they'll wrap something up, and it's like 9 out of 10. Like, you're going to squeeze it, maybe get the tap. But there's other guys, they lock something, and you're like, oh, there's no way out of this. Yeah, this is death. This is death. Yeah. Yeah, this is 10 out of 10. Yeah. Yeah, like an Eddie Bravo triangle. You get locked in Eddie Bravo's triangle, like, I'm not getting out of this. This is tap time. I've been wondering. So I play lockdown a lot, and maybe getting too technical is probably fucking boring. That's okay. I have an extra muscle in my calf. What?

[40:21] I have the same muscle in my left calf, but my right one is twice the size. Just a little strand from making that little hook on the shin. Oh, just from jiu-jitsu? From playing lockdown. Wow. You know, you could exercise that. [40:36] You know, there's a thing called a tip bar. Do you know what that is? Uh-uh. [40:40] This would be really good for jiu-jitsu, especially for people who really love butterfly guard. And it's just good for overall knee stability. I learned about it through the knees over toes guy on Instagram. Have you ever done any of his stuff? No, but I need to start looking into it yesterday. Look into it. Really good for knee health and strengthening the knees and a lot of amazing exercises. But one of the things that he recommends is a tip bar. [41:10] And you lift weights by lifting your foot upward, by lifting your toes towards your knee, which is an exercise you very rarely get. But it's really good. Yeah, that's really good. And for butterfly guard, that would be it, man, because you could get that motherfucker strong as shit with not just doing butterfly guard, but lifting. Lifting for that. You would for sure. I always thought like leg extensions, too. That would help in a big way. Right. Yeah. [41:34] For the same kind of muscles, the forcing, like extending the leg. Yeah, because it feels awkward at first to try to elevate from that position. Yeah. Right? Especially if your knees are fucked. I'm kind of – [41:46] 16 years in now and i'm like i'm avoiding the the heavyweight rolls right like they're super tough like i just have to like protect protect myself and still like i never want to stop either so like i want to be able to get in there and and fuck around as much as possible but yeah you got to pick who you roll with for sure that's important especially as you get older are you doing trt or anything like that no i wish why don't you do it

[42:12] All right. [42:14] Oh, you son of a bitch. What does that mean? What does that mean? What does that mean, Mike Baxbaugh? What does that mean? I just haven't... [42:22] Had a chance, I suppose. While you're in town, I'm going to hook you up with Ways to Will. How many more days are you here? I leave tonight. Oh, shit. Yeah. Yeah. [42:31] Which I'm tonight. [42:32] Nine. Oh, yeah. We could do that. We can make it happen. We'll make it happen. I'll make a call as soon as we get out of here, and I'll have you go over there right before you take off. Yeah, because shit has gone pretty south with the body. At the very least, if you don't do anything, you should get blood work. Get blood work. Find out where your hormone levels are at. Yeah. How is your diet? It's not bad. I eat pretty good. I actually cut out sugar this year. Big impact? Humongous. Isn't it crazy? Humongous. You're poisoning yourself. [43:02] Yeah. And it's just like like what I was saying, like being that like slightly lower than baseline, like sugar gives you that little dopamine like fix that is like, OK, I feel right now. And so like I had a little. [43:15] soda habit which i mean there could be fucking worse things but a lot worse but maybe not though you know like sugar is pretty fucking bad for you well i lost i lost 15 pounds like like that like that isn't that crazy yeah it's so stupid it's so crazy how many people are just down in that stuff all day long all day long yeah and just eating you from the inside well you can see it in their body yeah you can see it in their body people oh i'm sorry buddy [43:42] Sorry.

[43:43] I put my foot on Marshall. I forgot he was there. I mean, you see it with kids. I mean – Oh, it's terrible for kids. It's so bad. It's so bad for everything. But in moderation, it's okay. But the problem is human beings are really bad – [43:57] with moderation of things that are literally designed to be addictive. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's so hard. And I'm a creature of habit to where it's like I build a routine, and then I stick to that fucking routine. Yeah. And if that includes... [44:09] you know sugary drinks sugary drinks and a fucking ice cream at night whatever like it's gonna be there i know and especially if you're putting in the work if you're working hard and and you're working out you're like i deserve it i deserve to poison myself yeah be like it's balance this times like i'll come home from the comedy club and it's late and everyone's asleep and i'm like fuck it i'm eating cereal you know i just i mean you're an adult you get to choose every now and then and i always feel terrible after i do it i'm like why did you do that yeah all those ideas [44:39] It sounds so great and you just build up a beautiful idea and then you get done and you're like, what the fuck? The only time I feel good is if I come home and I'll cook a steak. [44:49] I do like that. I'm going to actually take a whole hour to make myself a meal. Even though it's 1130 at night and I'm tired, I'm going to take a whole hour and make myself a meal and have the discipline to not eat any garbage before that. Because when you're tired, you make the worst dietary decisions. There's a part of you when you're tired. I forget what it's called.

[45:19] or bad for you yeah you're impulsively going to go towards potato chips and ice cream and candy and bullshit because you're fatigued and there's convenience right like it's not just that if there was a fucking home-cooked meal like mashed potatoes green beans a beautiful like half chicken that was cooked on a on a on a grill or ice cream [45:44] You might take the ice cream if no one was around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You might grab a Kit Kat bar. [45:51] For sure, if there was a bowl of chips, just an inviting bowl of ruffles sitting there, like, I'm going to grab a couple of ruffles. And that's that weird dopamine thing. Our brain rewards us somehow. And then it fucks with us later. But you know what the thing is? The reward is not worth it. It's not a good reward. Yeah. It's not like an orgasm. It's not like the completion of a project. [46:14] the amount of whatever rush [46:18] in your brain that you get from eating a shitty potato chips. Not that much. Yeah. [46:22] For what it does to you? [46:24] But if I eat a bag of Ruffles, I'd feel like shit for five hours. Yeah, for sure. I started – it came from a time, place where I was really poor, and I tried to figure out, like, what's the least amount – [46:37] food I could eat in a day and still survive, right? Oh, boy. [46:41] And what I started to do was like do little fastings during the day. So like I'd wake up, get a coffee and not eat until like five. But then I started realizing that I felt good doing that.

[46:52] You know, like like my body started feeling better and now I pretty much do it regularly now, even though like I have money to get food. I would just just wait. [47:04] Just wait. And I found myself actually getting – [47:08] pleasure from the pain of starvation. Like I started to, I started to like the feeling of being hungry and, [47:16] Really? Yeah, at a certain point. But how hungry are we talking about? This is like 24 hours in or how many hours in? No, it's like – so I would basically eat one meal at like 5.30. Okay. So no food all day except, you know, I'd have some coffee with a little bit of half and half in it, so some fat and drinking water, of course, or maybe like eat like a fucking banana or something. [47:46] eating something shitty in the morning, feeling shitty, [47:48] Yeah. Until noon. Eat some other fucking shitty thing. You know, as a young person, you just do whatever the fuck you want. Well, your body will get adapted. I mean, that's why that whole intermittent fasting thing is interesting, right? Because – [48:02] You're making your body digest food all day long. Like if you're eating all day long, your digestion system never gets break. Well, I started thinking like even like, you know, back to chasing the fucking deer. [48:15] Our bodies used to have to go hunt. [48:17] Oh, yeah. To get something to eat. So this idea of, like, waiting, you know...

[48:23] eight hours, six hours before eating anything from waking up. It started to feel natural for me. Well, it is natural as long as you're eating natural food. That's the thing. Yeah. So if you're eating processed foods and a lot of bread and a lot of pasta and a lot of stuff that human beings have made, especially like our American bread, your body's accustomed to a lot of sugar. Your body's accustomed to those foods. [48:48] complex carbohydrates just pouring into your system all day long, and you're using those as a fuel source. If you are subsisting off of fat and protein and meat and avocados and you're eating healthy food, your body is working off a lot of ketones. Your body is making its own glucose through gluconeogenesis from the meat, and it's also running off of ketones from the fat. It's a way more efficient way of doing it. [49:18] nearly as hungry. You don't have that feeling, that awful feeling that [49:23] When I was eating a lot of carbs, and if I would go like four or five hours without eating, I would start getting fucking famished. Yeah. You don't get famished when you eat only meat. It stops. You get hungry. Yeah. [49:37] but it's totally manageable. Just that alone... [49:40] I love it. [49:41] The not... [49:44] requiring food like i can go sometimes i'll i won't eat breakfast sometimes i'll work out i won't eat breakfast i'll come here i'll be here all day and the first meal i have is dinner yeah and i'm fine yeah i'm literally fine like it's not bothering me and it's only because my body's adapted to not eat processed shit yeah because it's different if you feel like you're going to throw up or pass out because you haven't fucking eaten and that's people that eat a lot of fucking

[50:14] shit. Yeah. Your body needs fuel. You get low blood sugar and you start feeling like shit. Yeah. And like you got to get something in you. Well, I noticed as soon as I started doing that, like the stored fat, like in my like little love handles or whatever, like immediately just it was like the body's like, OK, I got to use this shit now. Yeah. And burn it up. Just complete body change. And [50:37] Like, and mentally, I felt so much better. Yeah, people that fast, and I've never fasted for more than 24 hours, but people that fast for, like, three days, they all talk about how great they feel at the end. You feel euphoric and incredible, and, like, you have so much energy. I'm like, that sounds nuts. It sounds like you should be fucking dying. Yeah, because, I mean, I do get miserable sometimes of, like... [50:58] Yeah. Like, I could just eat a fucking steak. I hold it off. I hold off the idea of fasting because, like, I make all these excuses for myself. Like, oh, I've got to do my show. It's important. I can't be out of it. Yeah. And that's for me. I don't have any, like, stringent routine of, like, I'm not allowed to fucking eat something. It's just the routine that I've got into now to where it's like I just sit down and work. But that kind of probably helps a little bit, too, because of that mind state of, like, I don't really – when I'm in the mode of painting, like, I don't have to go to the bathroom. [51:29] I'm not hungry. Do you drink coffee or anything while you're doing that? Yeah, I drink espresso during the day. Or, like, I get a quad espresso, and then it just kind of lasts. [51:38] Most of the day, you know, until like noon or whatever. And that, I mean, that keeps me... [51:44] kind of on the level, I suppose, because there is some fat in there. Like the caffeine obviously helps. Yeah, it's a little something. Yeah. Yeah, caffeine helps with the hunger. But I think that what you're saying, the focus is probably the big thing, that you're just so locked into what you're doing that you're not even. Yeah, it's like I'm not even in my body anymore. Like the body is separated from the mind in some way. That thing that you were talking about earlier, that is such a weird thing, where it feels like whatever you're working on just sort of takes over.

[52:14] If you enjoy food, and I mean really good food, Traeger is a game changer. This isn't just a grill. It's the ultimate way to cook outdoors, delivering unbeatable wood-fired flavor thanks to the all-natural hardwood pellets that fuel everything you grill, smoke, or bake. That's it. Just wood and fire and flavor. And what's truly wild is how easy it is. Just set the temp, load the grill, and let Traeger handle the rest. [52:44] smoked ribs, even baked pizza, all on one grill. If you're into fire, flavor, and doing things right, check out Traeger Grills. [52:53] This episode is brought to you by Gold Belly. Gold Belly will ship you the most insane dude foods from all across the country. You got to try the ribs from Terry Black's in Austin. Massive, juicy beef ribs that take a day to cook. [53:07] sink your teeth into them, Goldbelly will ship them to you anywhere. [53:12] And you've heard me talk about Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles from L.A. Man, now you don't have to sit in L.A. traffic to get some of that chicken. Just order on Gold Belly. So ship, Dad, something awesome from the most iconic restaurants across the USA. Go to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with the promo code ROGAN. That's goldbelly.com, promo code ROGAN. To me, it's something subconscious. [53:42] real art form as...

[53:45] Creative problem solving. So for me, all of those things, like it tickles the same part of my brain to where. [53:54] Like, I'll ask myself questions. And it tends to be like you have to ask yourself the right questions. Like, I don't know how to fix a car to save my life. [54:04] But I've had to fix some shit to where I'm like, hmm, what should I do here? Or like, you know, you'll just try something. But it's almost like a subconscious voice. Like I was saying how the painting will kind of tell me how to – like where to go next. To where I don't know an answer, but somehow I come up with it. [54:25] Right. Just by kind of asking. [54:27] my brain, you know, what, what should we do here? And it's, it's, it's always like fascinated me that I'll, it's like my brain comes up with solutions to these problems by, you know, running some computation of like, well, if we did this, this will happen. If we did that, this will happen. And I'll come up with ideas that are like, I don't have that aren't conscious ideas or thoughts that seep in and, [54:55] from some depth [54:57] in my brain that it's like, it's not my control. It's not like a brag. Right, right, right. It's like some way of thinking that I can get solutions to problems that I don't know the solution to. Right. And you don't feel like those solutions are yours. [55:13] No. Yeah. No. That's, yeah. Yeah. It comes from somewhere else. I'd like to think of it as like some part of my subconscious or some part of the brain that I'm not accessing in time.

[55:24] conscious reality that [55:26] is coming up with answers. But I'm amazed by it all the time. Like, if you've ever had, like, a light that wasn't working in your house, right, but if you, like... [55:36] flip the switch three times and then like turn the fucking heater on somehow the light comes on [55:41] You know what I mean? Like, you figure out these ways to accomplish a... [55:46] a task or figuring out a solution to a problem. And for me, I feel like with painting and jujitsu or now anything, like I remember I pinched a nerve in my neck like bad to where it's like I couldn't even sit up. And I was like, how the fuck am I going to get out of bed? And just ended up like picking my leg up, hooking my arm behind my leg and doing like a jujitsu thing to like sit myself up because I couldn't like actually sit myself up. And I was like, I've never done that before. That's so fucking strange. But like, like. [56:16] My brain just told me to do that. Well, that makes sense, though. You know how to use your body from jiu-jitsu, and this would be a way to get up without using your abs. Yeah. Yeah, but there's all kind of like fixing a fucking car. I don't know what I'm doing, but this seems to be my brain telling me, maybe try this. [56:36] Yeah. [56:37] With all of these processes of martial arts and painting, just some creative problem-solving aspect of the brain that's – [56:47] Almost separated from... [56:49] And gets nurtured with use. Yeah. It builds. Oh, yeah. It gets strong. Well, this is what Pressfield talks about when he talks about summoning the muse.

[56:59] Did you ever read the book The War of Art? I haven't. I've got a copy. I'll give you a copy of it. He gave me a box of them because I used to have a box of them on the desk in the old studio that I'd hand out to people. But it's a short read, but it's an amazing read on this concept of the muse and that like treating this thing like you're a professional. You're going to show up at this time and you're going to summon the muse and you're going to do it with sincerity. And if you do that and you show up every day, it'll work. Yeah. And it really does. That's what I do. That's exactly. I mean, I live that. [57:29] I go to the studio. [57:30] And I'm there until it's time to leave. Then I go teach at night. And then I repeat the whole process. Yeah. And it's joy. Yeah. [57:38] Like there isn't a lot of like I probably have a bit of a short attention span to where like things can get fucking boring. But obviously not painting. [57:47] No, I leave after a long day and I feel myself... [57:51] feeling guilty. [57:52] That I'm not still there. [57:53] Wow. [57:55] You see, that's why I have a problem when people use that term ADHD, because I think about myself as a boy and I'm like, I know they would have fucking diagnosed me if I had the wrong parents. Yeah, I know they would have diagnosed me and they would have brought me to a doctor who would have put me on some fucking medication and it would have ruined whatever weird quality that I have that lets me focus on things intensely. Yeah. [58:18] They want to pretend that everybody has to be the same thing. [58:21] Like, everybody can't be the same thing. We're all wired different. I'm not wired normal. I'm wired. Like, if what you're saying is boring, I'm like, oh, God. Yeah, how the fuck do I get out of here now? I know some people that are going to go, whoa, so what are you going to do about that, Fred? They can have the boringest fucking conversations all day. I literally feel physical pain when I'm being bored. But if I find something that's really interesting, like really interesting, I can lock on.

[58:51] paying attention and that's a fucking superpower i think so and i think they're fucking kids up man and i think there's a lot of lazy parents that don't want to deal with this extraordinary child that has this weird thing that you haven't harnessed yeah and you're putting that kid on fucking speed they're putting them on ritalin shit that's they were gonna try to give me ritalin when i was a kid you know i wasn't a spazzy kid i wasn't it just i was bored as fuck by what [59:15] Like whatever they were trying to do in school. You're an artist. Yeah. But no one can recognize that. It's almost like they want to pretend that that is not a real option for a human. But why are there so many artists? No, I know. What are you saying? How is that possible that you want everybody to fit into this fucking square peg? How is it possible that you're teaching and a kid comes along and he's bouncing off the wall, but that motherfucker could play video games like an assassin? [59:45] Yeah. Clearly, there's something going on with the video games that you're not providing him in the real world. And his ability to excel at video games shows he's extraordinary. Yeah. It's just about focusing that. Yeah. You take some little girl who just wants to talk to her friends and joke around in class and you fucking medicate her. She could have probably been an amazing artist.

[1:00:15] that thing doesn't exist anymore it's not like she's scattered all no she's just bored yeah what you're doing is boring your class is fucking boring you have uninspired teachers who are underpaid no one gives a fuck about them they're basically babysitters and you're bored and because the teacher doesn't want to deal with you being bored they tell the principal the principal tells the doctor the doctor recommends another doctor and then a little billy's sitting there in this fucking [1:00:45] and then they pop them full of Ritalin. [1:00:48] I had Henry Rollins on the podcast once, and he was telling me they put him on Ritalin when he was a little kid. Yeah. [1:00:53] He said he was just fucking like all day long. I'm like, God damn, man. [1:00:59] It's so nuts. Yeah, I remember seeing those kids, too. Yeah. Just, like, fucking spun out. Spun out. And now they're all on Adderall, man. [1:01:07] Yeah, and that's fucking... Bro. [1:01:10] There's a ton of young kids out there in the world that do not have a problem. And they're on Adderall because it helps them concentrate. It helps their scores for college. Yeah. 100%. I guarantee it. There are kids out there in high school right now that are popping Adderall all the time so that they can do better on tests, so they can do better in college. And then they're taking Xanax to come down off the fucking Adderall. Like, so terrible. [1:01:40] Oh. [1:01:40] So fucking terrible. It's fucking terrible. [1:01:43] And, you know, these pharmaceutical drug companies are just vampires. Yeah. This is what you need. This is what you need, Mike. Seeing the fucking commercials, like, during your show. Don't you want to be happy? Don't you want to dance in a wheat field with your child? Don't you want to go to the barbecue? Yeah, actually. Look, everyone's at the barbecue. They're happy. Everybody's happy. You're not happy. Yeah. Don't you want to go to the barbecue? Yeah. First thing, finding the thing that is actually going to bring you joy. Yeah.

[1:02:13] about it. I don't want to give it up, but it's a great bit if you've ever seen him at the Mothership. Did you see him? I caught the very tail end of his set when I got there. He's got a great bit about... Great guy. He's great. He's a funny dude, too. He's been my friend since he was a door guy at the comedy store, so it's so interesting to see him from a very raw beginner to where he is now. I mean, you've gotten to see a lot of that, right? Oh, yeah. I've seen Ari and Joey and Duncan. All those guys. Yeah. [1:02:42] Pretty wild. Oh, it's been amazing. Even seeing how the comedy scene has kind of started to flourish here and kind of like build it like that little 6th Street. [1:02:50] Uh... [1:02:51] uh, [1:02:52] way there is pretty wild. Oh, dude, there's five full-time comedy clubs. Yeah. [1:02:57] Right there. I hung out with my buddy Roy yesterday, and I feel like I met like four or five comics just like standing around figuring out what we were going to do. It's the hub, and it's also – this is the most important thing. It's the hub for development of young people. It gives young people a real pathway, a real possibility. [1:03:17] And we set it up that way on purpose. Like, this is the idea. It's like you cannot have a sustainable comedy community without new members. Yeah. Yeah. [1:03:26] Yeah. I find a little envy in that. That's a little tougher in the visual arts world is because we're so fucking isolated. We're not hanging out at the same spots all the time. And it's like that's how things used to be back in the day. The artists would all go to the same bar after they were done working for the day. Right, like have an artist neighborhood. Yeah. LA had a bunch of neighborhoods where a lot of artists lived together.

[1:03:56] the art world. It's like if you're not in one of those two or three hubs, like you're [1:04:03] your [1:04:04] kind of isolated, like outside of that realm. And we don't have that opportunity. I really like enjoy that aspect of the... [1:04:12] comedy community towards like you see everybody meeting up like they see each other every day they hug they talk over shit they can like kind of workshop stuff with each other like having that ability is is or like that community in that aspect oh it's so nice it's so nice and so when you were there it's like perfect setup like shane gillis was there ron white was there i got to top with ron for a while he's the best yeah he's the best he's such a fucking character yeah so tony [1:04:42] beautiful community but it's also like the young people the young people coming up they're good man they're good and they're hungry and they're focused and they realize that there's a real pathway so because we set it up so we have two nights of open mic nights which is really important yeah like you have to have chances for people to get on stage for the first time and and just chances to just develop yeah you just got a few minutes you go up there you tell a couple of jokes try it again next week try it down the street try it over here try it over there and if you want to do it if you really want to do it there's a bunch of people that are also doing it here [1:05:12] So there's like a great community and it's pretty fucking positive, man. Yeah, it's pretty. Instead of being cutthroat and backstabby, everybody's real supportive. Big difference from L.A., right? Big difference. I noticed just the sort of like every interaction I had while I was here for just three days just felt so genuine.

[1:05:31] Not like somebody's trying to get something from you. They're regular folks out here. Everybody just seemed like... [1:05:37] so laid back and chill and still focused. They're regular humans. What we were dealing with in Los Angeles was – [1:05:45] Some amazing people. I miss – there's a lot of amazing people in L.A., but – [1:05:51] The overall vibe of the city was a vibe of you were trying to stand out from everybody else and get famous. [1:06:00] You could feel it. You could feel it. Yeah. Because, I mean, growing up in San Diego, like, I spent a lot of time in L.A. Like, I could sense the feeling of, like... [1:06:10] Everybody like it felt like everybody was trying to do something. Yes. Like every single person you saw on the street was up to something. And then it got real weird when reality TV came along because you didn't have to have any talent. So it used to be you wanted to be an actor and people that didn't have any talent in acting. You couldn't convince them otherwise. They thought they could do it. Everybody thought they could act because acting is essentially just talking. [1:06:32] It's just pretending to talk when, you know, like we know the words. So many people do it so badly. So bad. But they don't think they do. Right? But it's a thing that you can't discern. [1:06:41] In a way, it's a little bit like comedy. Like you see a guy like Ron White tell a story on stage, and it's so effortless and hilarious. [1:06:48] that you think, oh, he's not even trying. I can do that. I tell stories. My stories are good, too. And you think you could go do it because you don't understand what's actually happening. Yeah. It's just confusing you. It's tricking you. Well, that whole routine, like the idea of like writing a monologue seems so obscure to me. Like I feel like I can be funny in a scenario where it's like people are talking and you have something to bounce off of. Yeah. But to get up there and do a monologue by yourself, like that –

[1:07:16] It feels so alien to me. To you, because you're smart. But to a dumb dude who sees that, he's like, I could do comedy. And so there was all these people that were just looking at comedy and also looking at acting as a pathway to getting attention. Yeah. And then it really got fucked with social media. So when I was leaving, like a year or two before I left, I was already thinking about leaving. I was like, I got to get out of here. [1:07:46] And these people were there and people were taking pictures of them. I'm like, what is this? And someone said, I don't even think it was a TikTok influencer. I think it was a Vine influencer. Like, this is a Vine influencer. I was like, what does that mean? Like, what do they do? And it's like, oh, they dance. They dance around and, like, people are here. I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, this is nuts. So it became another way that you could get famous. You could just get famous by doing pranks or being obnoxious or, you know, taking your clothes off and yelling in traffic. [1:08:16] is just trying to get famous. [1:08:18] When you get out of there. [1:08:20] You come to a place like Austin, there's this relaxation. [1:08:24] Because they're just people. Yeah. All that's gone. No one here is trying to get famous. It's very rare that someone's trying to get famous. [1:08:32] And then if you can insert a comedy community there that – [1:08:36] really... [1:08:38] The art values the process and the results of the art. That's what we're really all about. We're really all about killing. All that other stuff comes. The reason why Shane Gillis is the number one comic in the world is

[1:08:49] is because he works hard and he's really fucking funny and the process yields an amazing result. And he's so sincere. Super sincere. But the point is, like, he doesn't give a fuck about fame. Like, he's not trying to get famous. Yeah. I know him. Yeah. Like, it's just not something that happened. We were joking, right? Bro, fame sucks. Like, we were in the green room the other night talking about how much fame sucks in some ways. I'm like, you can handle it. You'll be fine. You're going to handle it. Yeah. It's such a different experience. [1:09:19] like nobody really fucking knows what you look like most of the time they do now bitch oops i spilled coffee shit not much luckily i was almost out but there's some like sense of stress yeah to that [1:09:32] Thank you. [1:09:33] Thank you. [1:09:34] Thank you. [1:09:35] I mean, I've even experienced it a little bit with like hanging out with you a couple times of like people coming up. I'm like, fuck, this is so weird. Like, why? Like, why do people act like this? Like, they get weird. But that's the thing also that people like about being famous. They want people to be uncomfortable around them. They want to be extraordinary without even trying. You know, it's a it's a weird thing, man. It's a weird thing that has existed with royalty. You know, it's kind of the same thing. [1:10:05] and stand above everyone else for almost no reason. And the fame thing in Hollywood was the thing that was holding the art form of comedy back too because there was this velvet prison that existed, that if you were a good boy or a good girl and you drew between the lines and you didn't say anything too crazy, you could get a sitcom or you could get a TV show. I mean, I've seen that where people just like –

[1:10:30] People who want to be actors take that comedy route. [1:10:34] Yeah, they do, but also really good comics tone their shit down. [1:10:38] They don't say what they actually think is funny anymore. Yeah. They say what they think they can get away with and still get a TV show. Well, that's something that I noticed at the show of, like... [1:10:49] Having everybody's phones in the Faraday bags or whatever those are, like – [1:10:53] allows people to be a little bit more honest and direct or really say what they want to say. And more importantly, it allows the audience to totally lock in. Yeah. Because for a lot of these people, it's the only two hours of their whole life where they're not going to be on their phone. No, I know. Other than sleeping. When you're locked in and you're at a live show, it's so fun. It's so good. It's the correct move for everybody. [1:11:23] material and you don't want to get released before it's done because new material takes forever yeah yeah it's like it'll take months for a bit to and sometimes it sucks at first or you it's offensive like something's wrong with that you gotta i gotta figure out a way that people are not mad because that's not what i'm trying to say yeah and you could figure it out but it just takes a bunch of different iterations and if someone fucking videotapes it and puts it up it's like they did with louis ck when he first came back it screws up the whole process it's like you're

[1:11:53] of people because it's eventually going to get on Netflix and people are going to see it. But it's going to take time. It's not a simple process. And... [1:12:02] We have to do it in front of people. That's the interesting thing about that art form, too. Like, you've got to work shit out. In front of humans. Yeah. It's not – it's – [1:12:11] But I'm sure the writing process in your head feels so much different. Yeah, there's a lot of processes. There's the onstage writing process. There's the writing process in your head. And there's the idea process, which is the trickiest one. [1:12:25] Because the most difficult thing with comedy really is coming up with a subject that's actually interesting to you. [1:12:32] Yeah. [1:12:34] where you really find humor in it. [1:12:36] And if those are the ones when I can really find humor in something, that's the ones that I dig into the most because I'm enjoying the shit out of the whole process of uncovering all the ridiculousness. [1:12:46] But it has to be something where I'm like, what? That's how it is with painting, too. Like, I'm entertaining myself first. Sure. And then hopefully that connects with people somewhere. Yeah, I think it's all together. I think tattooists are like that. I think musicians are like that. I think it's the Miyamoto Musashi quote. Once you understand the way broadly, you see it in all things. Yeah. [1:13:08] Yeah. [1:13:09] Yeah, it's beautiful. It is beautiful because I think you probably see it in the other things that you do. You see it in your art. You see it in jujitsu. And there's people out there that they're seeing it in writing. They're seeing it in – [1:13:20] sculpture, whatever, there's a thing, whatever it is that allows you to get really good at the thing that you love. That thing takes over while you're doing it and you're almost not there anymore. You're almost like a passenger. Yeah. Yeah.

[1:13:33] Yeah. And that's when you know you hit the good spot. Like if I'm a big Bukowski fan and on his gravestone, it says, don't try. [1:13:43] Like that's the insignia, and then it's like a pair of boxing gloves. Another guy, a famous drunk. [1:13:48] All of my favorite writers are self-destructive. I don't know why, but they are. [1:14:18] summer more balanced and enjoyable. With BetterHelp, you can connect with a licensed therapist online. You'll be matched based on your needs and can switch any time if it's not the right fit. With millions of clients worldwide, people are finding the support they need with BetterHelp. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer. Find guidance in therapy. Visit BetterHelp.com to get [1:14:48] This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. This summer, soccer is here, and the watch parties will be going back to back to back. But don't worry. Uber Eats has your game day essentials covered with 30% off all orders from Aldi, Kroger, and Dollar General. All the snacks and groceries to keep your crowd happy delivered straight to your door like chips, dips, wings, guac, and fresh ingredients for the perfect game day spread.

[1:15:18] you can stay locked in on the game all the hosting none of the hassle order now for 30 off your game day snacks and grocery order only on uber eats for a limited time offer eligible for 30 off entire order taxes fees and terms apply offer valid through july 5th product availability varies by region exclusions may apply i found this the other day about hemingway um hemingway always thought [1:15:48] get him and apparently apparently they actually were really yeah they actually were um he he thought that he was here i'll send this to you jamie [1:15:56] You saw it? I saw it. It was like a meme going around the other day. Oh, here it goes. The FBI investigated Ernest Hemingway for decades with surveillance beginning in the 1940s due to concerns about his activities in Cuba and his associations with individuals suspected of communist ties. While initially dismissed as paranoia, it was later revealed that Hemingway's fears were grounded in reality, and the FBI did monitor him, even tapping his phones and intercepting his mail. Okay. [1:16:21] The surveillance continued throughout his later years, including his time in the hospital, and may have contributed to his mental anguish and suicide. Damn. Yeah, you can't fucking... [1:16:31] What about booze? You've drank every day. Severe depression. [1:16:38] 42 to 74, they studied them. What did you learn? That's wild. That's that thing. There's a meme or somebody saying that you have to be aware of the artists because they associate with everybody. They're not just locked into an upper class group.

[1:16:56] society. They're [1:16:59] Like, even, like... [1:17:00] Where I was staying, like I made friends with like three or four homeless guys just out on the street that I just kept seeing around town from being around, you know, like like we associate with everybody. There's no like hierarchy of of class. Well, I think if you really want to be open, like really open, you have to encounter a lot of different kinds of humans. Yeah. Yeah. [1:17:22] Especially if you're a comic or a writer. If you want to understand people, you have to interact with them. Yeah, because especially as a writer, you only have your own experience. If you just write your own experience, it's just going to come off as like every character is you. Exactly. Like to put yourself in the head of somebody else is – Yeah. [1:17:42] You have to be open. Yeah, you have to be. And have like a certain form of empathy. Right. To even understand how somebody else feels. That's why there's a contradiction of the star comedian. [1:17:55] Like, that's where things get weird. Like, the star comedian. Because if you're a star and everybody's shooting, oh, Jerry Seinfeld's here. Yeah. Take the pictures. Like, you're walking the red carpet. And you're, like, you got to be down with the people. You got to be in the nitty gritty. Yeah, you got to find some trenches somewhere. You got to figure out the trenches. Yeah. [1:18:11] Because if you don't, [1:18:13] And I think [1:18:15] If you think about my favorite comedians, they were all self-destructive too. Yeah. All of them. [1:18:20] Richard Pryor, Hoover lit himself on fire. That's about a self-destructive guess. Kinesin, cocaine and alcohol, Hicks, lots of drugs, and then cigarettes until he got pancreatic cancer.

[1:18:35] They were all at least some way fighting some fucking thing inside their head. Yeah. It makes me wonder how much of it is like maybe that empathy is too much. Maybe you feel too much, and you've got to kind of – [1:18:51] There's also the – [1:18:53] There's just the stress of the job itself. Yeah. Like. Especially when you find success. Right. Because you got to keep that. You got to also still be putting out new stuff. Yeah. So you got a chance to see me. This is all new stuff. This is the stuff that didn't. It wasn't on my Netflix special. Yeah. It's all in development. It's all like. And that process is. [1:19:18] It's fun. I love it. Don't get me wrong. But before I go on stage, I'm amped up. I'm pacing. I'm moving around. I'm listening to Nas. I got some music playing. I'm getting my dance on. I'm having an espresso. I'm fucking breathing. I'm like, ah, I want to get ready. That's why I always feel a little awkward in the green rooms. I don't want to be too, I'll be like, hi. Listen, you're cool in the green room. You know how to handle green rooms. There's some dudes that are a real problem. Some dudes that start telling really terrible stories in the green room, and you're like, oh my god, this is so boring. We've got to get in my room. [1:19:48] just for comics. Sometimes people will bring in people that are not supposed to be in the green room. I was actually telling a story about that yesterday when we were all at the American Comedy Co. in San Diego. When Doug was doing that, Doug Benson was doing the Chronicon

[1:20:07] Do you remember that? Not really. It was a fucking long-ass time ago. But some guy came in who, I don't know, like a fucking investor or somebody associated. Oh, he was coked up, right? I don't know. He grabbed a Bud Light bottle as though it was a bong. [1:20:21] He was like, where's the weed? And, like, he was going to, like, smoke a bong load out of this Bud Light beer bottle, drop the bottle, broke it everywhere, like, made a fucking scene. Everyone's like, who the fuck is this guy? Like, what is going on? Like, just the, like, way that people act so fucking strange when they feel, like, almost like they have to perform. But their performance is horrible. Well, I don't think it's that. I think they just, that guy was on drugs, I think. And then also, I think they get anxious. They get anxious, right? [1:20:51] People just get weird. They don't know what to do. [1:20:54] Yeah, we're fucking strange. There's a lot of fucking people that are barely keeping it together out there, dude. [1:21:02] Sometimes I think that's me, but just barely hanging on, you know? No, you're fine. Yeah. You're fine. But I think every artist feels like that. [1:21:11] Yeah, every artist feels like it's one thing that they could do one day that's going to ruin their fucking life. They're always like that close. It's all just like this keeping it together thing that you have in your mind. And you have to have some process that you do that keeps you on the work and not on the self-destructive path. Yeah. Because if you're a person that maybe has a drug issue and you're fighting that off and as long as you work all the time, you're cool.

[1:21:41] You wake up late that one day and you're like, gosh, it's a fucking one hit. I'd be good for just one little fucking... [1:21:48] Woo! Just a little tipsy. I could stop. In the beginning, I was only doing it every now and then. Yeah. You know, I can just go back to just, like, moderation. I think it's good. You know, it really gives me a little pep up when I need it. Addiction is a motherfucker. Maybe your doctor gives you a little Adderall. Like, the Adderall's good, but two pills is better. Three pills is really... I get so productive. I think I'd get my company off the ground. If I could just really concentrate with these three pills... [1:22:13] Yeah. And then you then you're fucked and you're fucked. So it's like it's this balance that we all have. And it's not just artists. It's just people in life. This is dealing with insecurities. Whatever the insecurity is, you could fucking mask it with, you know, some drug or alcohol or whatever. Or you could lean into it and be like. [1:22:32] Okay, I feel this way. I accept that. What can I do? I think the problem is the term insecurity. [1:22:38] Because, like, good Lord, everything is insecure. Like, the secure things, a lot of secure things are really boring. [1:22:46] I mean, they secure things that are awesome, you know? Yeah. But there's a lot of that that's – that's not what it is. It's uncertainty. Uncertainty is what freaks you out. Yeah. The options that are possible. Yeah. [1:22:59] The possible results, the variables, all the different things. Yeah, and that's going to handcuff people. [1:23:06] plenty of people but you got to learn how to handle that you know i used to when i was teaching

[1:23:12] When I was teaching martial arts, I taught a lot of kids, and I had a lot of kids compete in tournaments. I really loved doing that. I really loved it when they really got into it and they got better, and I could see them improving and then winning tournaments. It was amazing. But I remember some kids would really struggle with competition, and I would tell them, that's because you're smart. And I'd go, you see these people that are not worried about this? They don't know what can happen to them. [1:23:40] They're delusional. They think they're going to be okay no matter what. But you're smart. You know that this is dangerous. That's good. You just have, you got to use that. You got to just hang on to it, use it, and then get in there and you'll be fine. Once the fight starts, you're not going to be scared anymore, which is weird. Yeah. [1:24:09] instincts and you have an understanding of the game, but you also have just... [1:24:13] just dialed in technique. That's all it is. It's all about the execution of all the things you've practiced, and it all just happens. But the lead up is so bad. The anxiety before when you sit in the locker room waiting for your time, you're like, fuck. And I would just tell them, I would go, you've got to understand this sucks, but this is just something, if you just can accept that this is here, accept that it's here, and recognize that this is a gift. And this is here because you're smart.

[1:24:43] And the reason why you're worried about all these possibilities is because you're intelligent enough to recognize that that's the thing. Yeah, you're looking for the outcomes and then figuring out ways. That's kind of what I was talking about before, like predicting outcomes and figuring out solutions to problems that have yet to occur. Yeah. Like when you're thinking that far ahead, like that's it's a different chess game. [1:25:02] Yeah, and the dull-minded nitwits out there that don't have any fear. [1:25:07] There's a reason why. [1:25:09] They don't have any fear because they don't have the capacity to comprehend all the possibilities. Yeah. So if some guy doesn't know how to fight at all, you've seen this a hundred times on videos online, and he gets in someone's face and that guy's like, bang, just cracks him. I'm like, that dull-minded shithead, he is not the fearful one. He's not the intelligent one. The intelligent people are fearful. You should be fearful. [1:25:34] It's good. [1:25:35] It helps you, especially if you're about to do something difficult. And you should do difficult shit because it teaches you about yourself. And if you don't learn about yourself, you're always going to wonder. [1:25:46] And that's the problem with, like, a lot of men in the world, a lot of chest puffy, a lot of, like, fucking really arrogant, aggressive people. Like, it's because they don't know themselves. Yeah. So they're trying to impose a version of themselves on other people to be respected. Yeah. You know? You find this in these fucking, like, business CEOs and execs who are, like, really aggressive and they weigh 80 pounds. Like, this is what this is.

[1:26:16] try to figure out who the fuck they are. They don't even know themselves. And that's one of the things I, like I, I fucking know myself, like spent so much time with myself in like a clear sort of frame of thought, knowing my limitations, knowing, [1:26:29] what I've accomplished when I was even more limited. If anything, I think this whole process is built down. That's the difference of the process between an artist and, say, someone who wants to be famous or somebody who wants to be worshipped, someone who wants to be the head of a company or the president of the United States or somebody who wants to be beyond reproach. Nobody who wants to be president should ever be president. 100%. [1:26:52] Yeah. [1:26:53] Yeah. [1:26:54] It should be – but then again, you know, if you have like some truly benevolent dictator that we're all waiting for. We're all waiting for like the benevolent leader who's just going to take control of it but do it for the people. You know, Marcus Aurelius, someone who just really, really does have the people's best wishes in mind. Human greed is too fucking strong. It's too strong. [1:27:24] Like all the stuff that's in the news today, I mean, there's still there's possible legal ramifications of things that happened in the 2016 election that we're hearing about today. Yeah. [1:27:36] It's like these people are gross. The whole thing. It's the opposite of the Austin comedy community. [1:27:45] So like if we had to choose a president of the Austin comedy community, it wouldn't be that hard. Like whoever wins is great. If Shane wins, great. If Duncan wins, great. Who are you going to elect? Who cares? Everyone's cool. But the presidential world is like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[1:28:06] of enormous, enormous military industrial complex corporations. [1:28:13] enormous amounts of money. Pentagon budgets beyond comprehension. Yeah. It's going to be a trillion dollars this year. And what does that even fucking mean? What does this mean? So, like, the... [1:28:25] The ability to be at the helm of that, like there's going to be no cooperation with the left and the right. And you're seeing what happens when one group gets into power. What's the first thing they do? Like what did they do when they got into power? They immediately went after Trump. They hit him with a ton of different fucking legal charges. Most of them didn't make any sense. The fuck, all the crazy shit about overestimating his property in Mar-a-Lago. [1:28:55] We're gross. Yeah. On both sides. On both fucking sides. The whole system is so fucking corrupted. And it's so obvious. Like, we're at a stage where, like, we have enough information to see how much greed and money just corrupts the system. I don't think we really got to see it until Trump ran. Yeah. [1:29:17] I think you got to see it unveiled in a way when Trump ran that you never got to see before. Because also you got the rise of independent journalism that happens at the same time. So you have people that report just on the facts, not like the CNN fucking lean or the Fox News lean, but just reports on exactly what's happening and how it happened. That just didn't exist before.

[1:29:47] you get a way different understanding of how gross this game is. And because the guy was so polarizing, and because he was such an easy guy to turn into a Nazi, like you pointed to him, you're like, this is our fuck him, look at the way he talks, he's going to ruin the world, it's a threat to democracy, we can do anything we can to stop him. So what do they do? They stop all the primaries. They don't have real primaries anymore. They haven't had a real primary since 2012. They rig them. [1:30:17] They rig it with RFK Jr., [1:30:20] You know, they're just – the whole business is gross. It's gross. I wish us as humans were all – [1:30:29] like together enough to just self-govern you would need you would need people to enter into politics at the highest level that didn't need the money and really were good people that really wanted to just change the tone of how everything is governed and that's going to be so hard to do because the money is so nuts and that's i think do you see the nancy pelosi thing the new one [1:30:54] She was being interviewed and then was like, I didn't want to talk about that. Yeah, Anderson Cooper. Put that on. Anderson Cooper, he sneaks it in. She's like, I came in here to talk about the anniversary of Medicaid. Like she cares about Medicaid. She's worth an estimated $400 million now. How? What's the salary? [1:31:12] 70,000 a year? 170 grand a year, something like that. 200 grand a year, maybe. But watching the panic in her face, realizing that Trump is now president, and they're talking about literally going after her for insider trading, and the undeniable evidence that they have had better results on the stock market than literally anyone ever, and they have access to information about laws that are going to be passed. If that's not insider trading...

[1:31:39] What the fuck is? And that's what I mean. The greed, the level of greed is so strong that you... You got that video? She might even have good intentions. [1:31:51] getting into office. Shut the fuck up, bitch. Shut the fuck up. Or anybody. Shut your mouth. I feel like it's a system that corrupts the minute you get in. I think so. I think if you want to succeed, like what happens, maybe you have these idealistic... [1:32:06] perspectives on how politics works or what you can do in your contribution. And then you get in and you're like, oh, Jesus. [1:32:13] Yeah, it doesn't work that way. I have to survive. [1:32:15] Yeah. Like, I've had... [1:32:17] candid conversations with Tulsi Gabbard about what it was like. And she's a person, she tries to be friends with everybody, tries to reach across the aisles. She's got that whole aloha spirit. And she was like, it's crazy. Like, just the amount of backstabbing that's going on. Like, when she got into office, like, first of all, you realize, like, you're not really in control of everything. [1:32:47] to do every step of the way. They get in the way of everything. And what are you going to do? Are you going to replace everybody? And how are you going to find qualified people to take those jobs? This guy's been at that fucking... He's been the czar of this commission for 25 years. So he knows all the ties and all the financial agreements. Here, let's watch this because it's so funny. Let me just read what he said. I'm sorry that we had some sort of technical issue. Nancy Pelosi became rich. Why do you have to read that? We're here to talk about the 60th anniversary of Medicaid. That's what I agreed to come to talk about.

[1:33:17] And what that means in the election. I wanted to give you a chance just to respond. He accused you of insider trading. What's your response to that? [1:33:24] That's ridiculous. In fact, I very much support the stop, the trading of members of Congress. Not that I think anybody's doing anything wrong. If they are, they are prosecuted and they go to jail. But because of the confidence it instills in the American people, don't worry about this. [1:33:47] Obvious investments have been made over time. I'm not into it. My husband is. But it isn't anything to do with anything insider. But the president has his own exposure, so he's always projecting. He's always projecting. And let's not give him any more time on that, please. We're going forward here. And I'm very proud of my family. And while he might make fun of us, while somebody inspired by him breaks into our home and hits my husband in a deadly fashion, [1:34:17] over the head and he thinks that's a riot i'd rather not go into some of my other complaints about him right now rather to talk about the 60th anniversary of medic okay okay first of all what crazy projection she immediately turned herself into a victim she immediately like went from jake tapper's like what's your response oh this is ridiculous nothing was insider nothing we have 400 million dollars whatever whatever what's really important is trump inspired a man who

[1:34:47] First of all, how do you know? That guy was a literal crazy person that broke into that house. Yeah, that was a weird fucking thing, too. He was schizophrenic. He had a hammer. He smashed the back window. He broke into the house. Paul thought that he could talk the guy down. It looked like Paul had a drink in his hand, so he's probably a little lit. Yeah. Probably a little more calm than he should have been. And then the cops are at the door, and the dude hits him in the head with a hammer. That guy was a crazy person. You're blaming Donald Trump for that? No. [1:35:17] gone from [1:35:18] You made an insane amount of money. A lot of people say you're insider trading. What's your response? My husband got hit the head with a hammer. They're all black belts at deflection. He thinks it's funny. [1:35:29] You know, it's because it's all because the president has a lot of exposure. Because it's funny. Trump does the same shit with her. If he's on the hot seat... [1:35:38] Nancy Pelosi. Yeah. You know, they all have that like natural deflection. Yeah, man. And it's like we all fucking accept it somehow. Like we might make fun of it or like be like, because my bullshit meter goes off all the fucking time. Like you're fucking lying to me right now. You can see it. [1:35:53] When you're a small business owner, you're always looking for the next big thing. Whether you're a gym owner looking to expand, a store stocking up for a busy season, or a restaurant owner planning a new menu – [1:36:04] You'll always need capital to grow. [1:36:06] But traditional banks are making it harder than ever to secure a small business loan. [1:36:11] That's why thousands of business owners trust Cardiff for same-day funding. [1:36:15] Their online application takes less than five minutes and won't impact your personal credit score.

[1:36:21] With over two decades of expertise, it's no surprise business owners keep voting Cardiff, America's favorite small business lender. [1:36:29] If you've been operating for at least a year and are earning at least $20,000 a month in revenue, [1:36:33] Apply now for up to $500,000 in same-day business funding at cardiff.co.rogan. [1:36:40] Again, that's cardiff.co slash rogan. Cardiff. Borrow better. [1:36:46] This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. When you're looking to hire, you consider someone's skills, experience, availability. But even more important than that is someone's enthusiasm. They should want to be there. Finding the right kind of motivation isn't as tough as you think. You just need ZipRecruiter. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. ZipRecruiter connects you with qualified candidates instantly. [1:37:16] latest feature puts the most interested ones at the top of your list so you can make sure you're speaking with the right people at the start use zip recruiter and find enthusiastic talent fast four out of five employers who post on zip recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day and now you can try it for free at zip recruiter.com slash rogan that's zip recruiter.com slash rogan [1:37:46] ZipRecruiter. There's a reason why that [1:37:50] whole ability to trade stocks is still...

[1:37:54] in position. And it's because they want it there. They make a shit ton of money. They have all the insider information. They have to figure out at what point in time is this too dangerous and who's willing to like make this a law, who's willing to change this and are the what politicians are going to sign on board for that because they're actually voting against their own self-interest. Yeah. Right. If they all decide like it's like they're playing chicken. Like as long as they don't do it, as long as they don't do it, then they can still make a ton of [1:38:24] But if you look at the numbers, like if you look at who's making money on the stock market, it is not – [1:38:31] all Nancy Pelosi. It is red, blue, red, blue, red, blue. It's pretty much down the middle. Yeah. I mean, as long as you could skirt the legalities, why would you not take information that you have gained and try to... [1:38:46] utilize it to your improvement and you're hanging out with harry the senator from fucking south dakota or whatever and harry's got a yacht like how did you get a yacht harry like you know the bobby's got his own private jet how'd you get your own jet bob you're a congressman like what are you doing and those people that are able to generate that kind of wealth and i think she's like the the poster girl for it unfortunately but it's not her like who's made the most yeah let's find that

[1:39:16] People that have made more than her. Yeah, I'm sure they have. [1:39:21] Where does it say, though? More than 20, remember here? [1:39:23] Okay. More than 20 members made almost double the S&P 500 average gain, which is crazy. Yeah. [1:39:30] You tell me it's like 0.5% more, but percentage more. Okay. David Rauser, Republican. [1:39:36] North Carolina, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Democrat, Florida, Ron Wyden, Democrat, Oregon, Roger Williams, Republican, Texas. See, that's the point. It's like it's not blue. It's not red. It's just blue. [1:39:50] Corruption across the board. They're all doing it. If you're making more than 50%, that's bananas. [1:39:56] That's bananas. [1:40:00] Hold on. Scroll back down. Scroll down. Okay, look at this. Pelosi won. An almost cult-like following for her financial disclosure saw the value of her household's portfolio rise by 71% in recent years. [1:40:16] Like that kind of trading is super unusual. Yeah. Yeah. [1:40:21] To make more than double the average gain of 24.9. So make more than 50%. [1:40:28] That's crazy. Nobody does that. No. And how do you explain that? And how do you explain those decisions? When you look at the decisions, like she dumps stock and then three months later some big bill comes down the line that fucks that company. She buys stock and then three months later some big bill that comes down that they're funding for this new project. It's crazy. More than a dozen U.S. officials sold stocks before Trump's tariffs sent the market plunging. Of course they did.

[1:40:58] tweets out to buy. Remember that? That was part of this. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. It's like, hey, don't do that. That's. [1:41:07] It's crazy that he has his own money, too. How about that? And yet still, like, poor people are sitting here arguing about who's the better person. Like, it's fucking wild. Like, they're all corrupt, and they're all fucking us. Right. [1:41:19] Some less than others. Some are allowing us to talk. And that's, I think, when you see the South Park episode with Trump, I know we're not in a fascist state yet. You know what I mean? Yes. We're still okay. Exactly. We're still okay. As long as South Park exists, we're okay. Yeah. [1:41:38] I mean – [1:41:39] Look, it's all weird, man, because this system is completely fucked. It's completely fucked. [1:41:45] and we don't want it to be, and they want it to stay the way it is. And so there's this weird thing where they have to get elected. So to get elected, they have to say the things that we want them to say. And so then we believe it every year, like fucking Charlie Brown going to kick that football, Lucy pulls it away. [1:42:00] Cut. [1:42:01] Yeah. But the weirdest thing to me is that [1:42:06] We're in this complete shifting of the polls where the Republicans now are in favor of free speech. The Republicans want to end the wars. They want to stop contributing to foreign countries. They want comedy to be comedy again. They don't want restrictions on people's behavior and thinking.

[1:42:36] to be what needs to be [1:42:39] elevated in our population and what needs to be ignored. And it's just like, God damn, you guys are... [1:42:45] You're ruining it for everybody that thinks in a left... [1:42:49] way. Like everybody who's [1:42:51] reasonable, like a reasonable left thinking person, which is most artists, by the way. Yeah, of course. And then you get to this point where you're like, no, I can't go along with you on all these things. Yeah. You guys are, you're, you're just a bunch of fucking assholes who are using these subjects as a way where you can behave incredibly shitty, incredibly uncharitable, like vicious, mean, ostracizing people from society. I don't want any part of you. I don't want any part of the way you guys think and behave. [1:43:20] And you pretend that you're doing it for good. You're doing it for you're gluing yourself to the wall for climate change. The fuck you are. You're just a nut. You're just a crazy entitled nut. And you're fucking up society. This is not the way that people should be behaving. [1:43:36] And I can't believe it makes people go to the other. And the Republicans are smarter about it now in this day and age because they're like, hey, we'll take in. Hey, it's fine. Come over to us. You can say whatever you want. Comedy's back. It's a big ebb and flow to me. It's like some weird natural balance of like things shift a little bit to the left. Things shift a little bit to the right. But we got to hold the center. If we motherfuckers could just figure out like we're so – we have so much in common. [1:44:06] generally who would be considered more left or more right. And it's just a few things that really are the basis of our contention. Well, the real problem is the team aspect of it. It's fucking retarded. Yeah, it's real retarded. Yeah, you can say it.

[1:44:22] I heard that why can't you say it? I'm joking thank god you're joking some people panic please edit that out no no retards back [1:44:32] It's just... [1:44:33] you know, [1:44:35] I think it's going to take time, but I think we're going to eventually get to a place where we work it out. And my best hopes of AI... [1:44:42] This is my best hopes. [1:44:44] Because it could just ruin the whole world and take over everything and we could become slaves. My best hopes are – [1:44:50] It... [1:44:51] gets to a point of efficiency and intelligence where corruption like that is impossible. And, [1:44:59] figures out a way to organize government spending in a way that actually helps us. Because that's what we want. The left and the right both want our tax dollars to be used to benefit everyone. Yes, unless you're running a business and you can get an advantage, and that's where it gets gross. Because those people can pay so much. And I think AI is probably going to recognize that. It's going to say, listen, you want to really fix this? You have to stop this competitive advantage. Well, it's our ape genes, right? [1:45:29] We're just fucking more advanced apes. That's it. Yep. And we still have a tribal mentality that's encoded in our fucking DNA. And we have to elevate above that. Yep. And that just takes... [1:45:43] Like avoiding greed. It's also – it's like what you do when you paint is – [1:45:49] You focus on creating this thing. This is what you're focused on. What they're focused on is numbers in a bank account, and they're focused on getting those numbers in there, and they're fucking obsessed with getting those numbers in there. So all those other steps that they do, like you're trying to figure out your painting. You're trying to brush techniques and different things, and you're trying different angles, maybe shadowing it differently. What they're doing is trying to figure out how to push this and push that and get this politician to make this legal, and that way they can make more money.

[1:46:20] Paul, put in the wager, because it's basically wagering, right? Yeah, it's gambling. Buy the stocks. It's going to roll. But if you have all the cards marked. Yeah, it is. And it's – [1:46:33] It's fucking... [1:46:35] It's a real unfortunate thing. And how do you avoid that? Because you really, you want corporations. You want them to make Apple fucking laptops and shit. You want a Samsung TV. You want these things, right? So how do you, how do you motivate people? [1:46:49] How do you get people that are motivated to make the best products in the world? [1:46:53] And every year, make them better. [1:46:55] and not have them think only about making money to the point where they're willing to bribe politicians so that they can pollute a river in India. Yeah, and that's what's so different about artists. It's like I would make paintings my whole life. Nobody bought them. Nobody gave a shit about them. I would still make them and would give them away or put them in a fucking closet somewhere. Like we – for me, I saw like art as a way that maybe I could get out of like the area that I was in. [1:47:25] a little bit. But at the same time, doing the work was what was important. And what came with that was secondary. It was all just added bonus. If I was selling fucking [1:47:39] wheels or car tires. I would only be thinking about how much money can I make selling the fucking tire. Right, that's the problem, especially if you're not a wheel and car tire enthusiast. It's one thing. Yeah, if you love it. Yeah. I know dudes who work on cars.

[1:47:55] And they fucking love it, especially builders. Yeah. Like my friend Steve Strope, who's been on the podcast before, who made my Nova. Uh-huh. [1:48:03] That guy loves working on cars. He loves it. I mean, that is his art. But he makes custom-made cars, and it's like to him, it's just like making a song. It's just like making a painting. Yeah. But when you're only thinking about money, man, those are the people that are the hardest to hang out with. Like, you ever hang out with financial people? Like, you ever get stuck at a party in New York with a coked-up financial guy? Have you seen this fucking Derek Moneybird fella? Oh, is he the jiu-jitsu guy? [1:48:33] um, [1:48:34] Three and a half years? Right. But is he legit? Because he's with legit people. So I can't imagine. Yeah, I think Jake Shields is a... [1:48:42] savage. Like, [1:48:43] All the respect. Jake says he's legit. I think Jake gave him his black belt. Well, then he's legit. [1:48:48] There's no way. I know Jake. There's no way. Jake is – his jiu-jitsu is top of the food chain. Yeah. And I know Gordon is trained with him. I know all these other people are trained with him. Yeah, Dan Hur was over there with him. I haven't heard anybody say anything negative. [1:49:01] So here's the thing. Someone who is like super rich, which apparently this guy is, who trains with the best trainers in the world and actually puts the time in every day. It's super easy to dismiss someone because they're rich. Super easy. [1:49:16] Zuckerberg is a primary example of that. I know for a fact Zuckerberg trains really fucking hard. And he goes with real guys. And he brings in people like Dave Camarillo trains with him. He's trained with a ton of people. So he takes it very seriously. He has access to incredible trainers. And he's an obsessive.

[1:49:35] He's a very competitive, obsessive person. Sure. So you could say, oh, he's got $200 billion. He can't kick my ass. That dude will fuck you up. That nerdy dude will fuck you up. And it's because he's actually put in the time. Now, he doesn't have the time that this Derek Moneybird guy has. Yeah. If this guy's got, if he's putting in like hours and hours every single day, which is what I heard, that he was like literally training multiple hours a day every fucking day at jiu-jitsu, [1:50:05] level. [1:50:06] I don't know if he is, you know, but I know that if those guys say he is, I believe them. I told somebody, I was like, let me just see him do an arm bar from close guard. Let me just see how sloppy that is and then I'll know for sure. Or not sloppy at all. Yeah, then exactly. Right. Why doesn't he just like show some drilling? [1:50:23] That's all it would take. You don't even have to show me you're rolling. Let me see some tight drills. Yeah, that's all it would take. Yeah, let me see you go through. But, you know, he doesn't have to. But then again, you kind of do have to if you project the fact that you're doing that. Yeah, if you take some sort of like – [1:50:38] braggadocious sort of angle, like three years, seven months, got my black belt. Right. You should probably show something. Like, hey, let me show you guys. Yeah. You know? Because otherwise... I mean, because when I started, I was doing fucking two a day. [1:50:52] To morning class, night class. [1:50:54] And, you know, none of that came fucking fast for me. But you might not have been the most naturally athletic guy. True. True. [1:51:03] Yeah. True. [1:51:04] But night classes and day classes are great, but one-on-one is the ultimate. If you're a guy like him and you can get John Donahue to coach you, you can get Gordon Ryan to coach you, you can get all those – Jake Shields. I've seen photos and videos of him from training sessions with the best guys in the world. So if you can get – and you're hiring them. Yeah. It could be a cheat code. It's 100% a cheat code. Yeah. It's 100% – if you do it. If you actually do the work, it's 100% a cheat code. Sure.

[1:51:32] But that's the thing. You have to actually be training really hard. It's not as simple as you know those guys, you talk to those guys, they give you the fucking secret handshake, and now you're good at jiu-jitsu. The only way to get good at jiu-jitsu is hard work. That's it. Yeah. And I could never see somebody like Jake Shields... [1:51:51] fucking giving out a belt that wasn't deserved. No, no, no. It's like when you hear Guy Ritchie is a black belt, you go, really? And then you hear he's a Henzo Gracie black belt, you go, oh. Oh, yeah. Okay. He's legit. Yeah. He's legit. Yeah. But there's not a lot of fake jujitsu black belts out there, man. I feel like we used to see more of them back in the day. Oh, yeah. There'd be like those funny videos of like somebody just. Oh, Eddie caught a couple of those. Yeah. There's a bunch of those videos where a guy shows up at a school and he's got a black belt [1:52:21] Then he rolls with people and he gets tortured. Yeah. That was like before YouTube existed or any social media existed. You kind of get away with it. Yeah. Well, I think people, they're crazy. There's certain people that are just completely schizophrenic and they just get it in their head and they just... [1:52:35] They're not even trying to con people. It's just they really, truly believe. [1:52:40] in what their mind is telling them. Well, that might be possible, but I think there's also a bunch of people that their whole life is a con. It's like a series of lies from the beginning to the end. It's just they never live in the truth. And so for them to put on a black belt is just the latest. I was reading about this guy that said he was a doctor and did surgery on people for years. [1:53:02] It's people that are nuts, man. There's...

[1:53:05] One out of three pilots... [1:53:08] in [1:53:09] I think it's Pakistan. [1:53:11] doesn't have a license. [1:53:13] That's fucking wild. They have fake licenses. See if that's true. [1:53:17] Thank you. [1:53:17] I know I saved the article, but I don't feel like going into my phone and getting it. [1:53:22] But it was like, Jesus Christ. Imagine you're on a plane and the guy doesn't really know how to fly. Yeah, it's fucking horrifying. [1:53:30] How does he figure out how to land that fucking thing? How does he know how to pull it out? The amount of intelligence to pull that off? You probably could have got your fucking pilot's license. Well, after a few successful flights, you would think that the guy would just go ahead and get the license. [1:53:46] You're already doing the thing. That's like I see artists in art school. I'm like, you're already making art. [1:53:52] Thank you. [1:53:52] You know how. There's a story from five years ago, so I don't know if it's changed. Almost one in three pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses. [1:54:01] They didn't take the test or something. Oh, my God. 262 pilots in the country did not take the exam themselves and had paid someone else to sit in on their behalf. They don't have flying experience, he said. Pakistan has 860 active pilots serving in its domestic airlines, including the country's Pakistan International Airlines flagship, [1:54:22] Yeah. [1:54:23] Oh my god. [1:54:25] How many crashes are they having? I mean, if they're keeping them in the air. Right. Ambitious dudes. Yeah. [1:54:32] Sometimes you don't need a diploma. I found that out because of a crash. Whoopsies. Oh, shit. All right. Whoopsies. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Oh, my God. That's so crazy. People are so nuts, man. If you let them be nuts, they will be nuts. Yeah. I think.

[1:54:48] People don't want any regulations. You want anarchy. Shut your mouth. Shut up. [1:54:55] like an altruistic anarchism where it's like everybody just treats everybody kindly and the way that you would want to be treated. That'd be great. Yeah. But it's so it's, we're the, our fucking eight mind is, [1:55:08] There's too many of us that are fucking nuts. Yeah. And greedy and, like, just out for self. And I get it. Like... [1:55:17] It makes sense. Like, there's a lot of self-preservation that comes with that. [1:55:22] If we could all just kind of pull – collectively pull our shit together. Self-preservation makes sense when you're surrounded by a bunch of people that are also selfish. [1:55:32] Right. That's part of the problem is like if you if you get lucky and you find a good crew like early on in your life of people are down with you, they're your friends and they love you no matter what. Life is way easier. It's way easier. And there's people out there that, man, they don't fucking have that. They don't they have a bunch of people around them that suck just in a form of competition at all times. I mean, I'm a lucky person. I'm a very lucky person. But I think the biggest luck that I have is the people that I've met in my friends. [1:56:02] much better. Well, I mean, it shows how much you support [1:56:06] your friends, too. Like, the idea that if we can all get lifted up... [1:56:12] Together. [1:56:13] versus I'm going to step on your shoulders and work my way to the fucking top. Right, but not only that, but it also shows that my way works.

[1:56:21] Yeah. [1:56:23] it doesn't hurt you to make other people successful or to help other people get more successful or just to tell people they're awesome and give them their, as the kids call their flowers. That's the kid. I struggle with that one. The young hip hop kids like to say that, give them their flowers, but you know, it used to be given their props, but it's like, [1:56:44] That... [1:56:45] If you really love that person, that's good for everybody. That's good for you too. Like the people that want to step on that person to elevate themselves, like you're just ruining your own life. You're missing the big picture. And it's not necessary. Yeah. [1:57:00] It's not necessary even in a competitive environment, even in something you're competing. Like your friends and these people that you're competing with, they help you. Yeah. They really do. It's almost a necessity. I think it's a necessity with comedy for sure. Yeah. I always say this, that no great comedy exists in a vacuum. I mean there's people that have talent that are in the middle of nowhere in some real small local scene, and they could become a great comic one day, but they're not going to on their own. Yeah. They have to be around great comics. [1:57:30] They've got to see, like, Dave Attell live. You know, you've got to see something like that where you're like, whoa. You know, you've got to see Colin Quinn live. You've got to see these people that are masters and see the thing that they do and get inspired by it. Yeah. And start to learn it. Yeah. Like, understand the process. Like, that's the same thing for me. Like, I thought I was going to be like, do the Sunday comics in the newspaper. Like, as a kid. Like, I didn't know what people did to make money making art.

[1:58:00] to comic books at all? Not really, but I was more leaning towards that kind of aspect of this is how you can survive, actually pay your bills and make art. [1:58:14] But you just wanted to make art, period. I just wanted to make art. Right. And it took – I became an assistant for a really well-known artist who – [1:58:25] ran a design firm, did fine art, ran the... [1:58:31] like at the top of his game. And I didn't go to art school, but I saw what he was doing. And a couple other artists, like in the same, same area was like, okay, you're, you're making paintings. You're, you're working with these companies to do some design. That design money is going back into your art, [1:58:50] practice. Like... [1:58:53] It was just being able to see how something exists and then knowing, like, okay, I could do that. Right? We're already doing the same process, but here is the sort of market of it. Here's how you survive, and here's how you continue to grow and thrive. It's how you become a professional. It's how you become a professional. But, I mean, if you're in fucking Wyoming somewhere, you might not have these people that you see. You're so disconnected from a community, you might not know. [1:59:23] Well, I got to give this art thing up and get a job because I got to pay bills because you just don't actually have the awareness that there is a pathway. And this is the failure of the school system because it never teaches kids that are artists or people that have alternative ways of existing in society that there's ways to make a career. I got kicked out of the only art class I ever took. No. This motherfucker, we had to draw up a shoe or something.

[1:59:53] into like a robot because I didn't like how the shoe was turning out. And he said, you have to draw a shoe or I'm failing you. I'm going to kick you out of the class. You have to draw a shoe. And I'm just kick me out then. And I knew like, you know, at 15, 16, that like art is what I decided is that no, nobody else can. [2:00:11] Say what the fucking rules are. This is for me to do. And now I forget his fucking name. I wish I knew I remembered his name and tell him to fuck off. There's a lot of those guys that turn people off. I had a high school art teacher turn me off to art, too. He was just a dick. And then I found out that the most talented guy in the class, this kid John DeVore, who I still contact every now and then. We talk on email. He was the most talented guy. He gave that guy an F. And I go, no. So it's like I hadn't communicated with John since I left art class. [2:00:41] But we did a bunch of stuff together. We did a bunch of drawings together. Yeah. And when. Do you ever draw anymore? No, not really. No. I do sometimes with my daughter. One of my daughters is really talented. Yeah. [2:00:52] I draw sometimes with her. [2:00:54] For the most part, no. It's interesting. I did a little drawing on vacation. We were drawing stuff together. Yeah. It was fun. [2:01:01] I just don't have the time to get obsessed with it right now. I'm obsessed with too many things, and I have to manage my craziness. I'm still waiting for you to start golfing. No, no, no, no, no. Putting is pool. No, no, no, no. Putting is pool on an undulated, warped table. Oh, I understand. I get it. You'd be great at it. Listen, I know everybody that I know that I love who's into it is obsessed, and that's part of the problem. Yeah. It's like I know what's coming. And I know it's like a fucking multiple-hour thing.

[2:01:31] asshole, wear stupid shoes. You do have to dress like an asshole. That's for sure. And then I see all these fucking fights where people are fighting on the golf courses. Do you see that drunken guy that got with a hockey enforcer? Yeah, threw the dude in the fucking lake. First of all, the size of that guy. The fact that you're squaring up and you're just bluffing and you're squaring up with this fucking... That's one of those spots where people think they're way fucking tougher because they've got a bag full of clubs than they actually are. People get out of fucking control on a golf course. What's just do [2:02:01] But it's so dumb. And it's drinking, too. The guy was clearly hammered. And I think he made a video afterwards apologizing. Yeah, good. Because he was just drunk. He's just drunk and he got stupid. But he got stupid with... That's what I always tell people. Like, don't get in fights. One day, you're going to get in a fight with a guy who knows what he's doing. And you're going to get fucked up. Imagine that fucking fear. Like, when he got grabbed by that fucking hockey player. He's got his jacket. He's just fucking hammering over his right hands. What a nightmare. But, like, I hope he was like... [2:02:30] Wow, I really made a poor choice here. No, at that time, he was just drunk as fuck and probably thinking, I'm going to get him back. Yeah. I'm going to get him back. Because I know what that fear feels like when somebody really fucking, like, you know, in a gym scenario, when somebody really grabs you and you're like, oh, fuck. There's nothing I could do right now. Like, I tapped to Big Nog's side control. He squeezed me so fucking hard, it felt like my ribs were going to come out of my mouth. Oh, God. And, you know, I was like a blue belt, maybe he's still a white belt. [2:03:00] his side control. That's crazy. And I started to think, well, what if he was fucking punching me, too? Well, also, he's way bigger than you. Yeah, he was fucking massive. Yeah, he's way bigger than you. The...

[2:03:10] the amount of pressure, if you're a really big person, you put down on a small person, it's really kind of unbearable. But even somebody who's like my same, same weight or whatever, like that, when you really like, I'm fucking wrapped up. And like, if, [2:03:22] this person wanted to, they could end me right now. Oh, yeah. That was always the most eye-opening to me when I would roll with guys who are 30, 40 pounds lighter than me. They just fucked me up. And immediately I was like, I never want to act tough in public again, ever. That fear of somebody. I got in. There was a guy who I was in a time period where I was partying a lot. This guy was just being a dick to a bunch of people, said something shitty to my friend. [2:03:52] My brain was just like, say something. And I was just like, why are you beating a fucking dick? Like, you know. And he puffed up. [2:04:00] And started coming at me. And he swiped something out of my hand. And immediately my instincts kicked into jiu-jitsu. I grabbed – he had like a flannel on. I grabbed his collar like a lapel. And I grabbed his wrist. [2:04:14] Immediately I was just going to throw him. [2:04:18] The other voice in my head is like, the guy had a dog, actually, who wasn't on leash. And I was like, if I throw this guy on his head right now and his dog runs in the street, I'm going to feel a little guilty. But I sensed in him that, you know when a grappler grabs your wrist, you feel it. It feels different than somebody else. It's someone who knows what they're doing. Yeah. I immediately grabbed both and put the squeeze on them that I could read in his eyes like, oh, that wasn't normal. And then I was like.

[2:04:46] No, no, no. Like, let go. And then he, like, walked away talking shit. That's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect. [2:04:53] You know, that's really rare for me. But it was like he had said something shitty to somebody. But to have somebody grab you like that and the fear that can come with that. Yeah. I would never want to experience that in real life. No. Like. [2:05:07] Thank you. [2:05:08] fucking horrified. Street fights are stupid. They're terrible. And the people that know how to fight don't do them. [2:05:15] They don't want anything to do with it. [2:05:17] You should just go to a gym. You should go to a gym. If you have this desire... Did you see this video recently? No. I saw it yesterday. You guys are making me think of it. What happened? This guy... [2:05:27] on top. [2:05:28] They're saying the guy in the bottom is a white belt. [2:05:30] He gets choked out without the use of arms. It's all legs here. [2:05:33] Gets put in the arm. Oh, this is so rude. Why is he doing this to a white belt? Well, I mean, they're training, I guess. I know, but it's so rude. That's for the... [2:05:42] It would go to you guys being experts. Yeah. Oh, Eddie can do that. Very rude. Well, it's kind of rude. You can't shake his head there. It's also that guy is just training. [2:05:53] He's just using that guy as a practice dummy. Yeah, I do that sort of stuff. Triangles. It's kind of rude. But, I mean, what do you want to happen if you roll with a white belt? Do you want him to win? Do you want to let him win? No. Like, what do you do? You tap him. You tell him what to do. Along the way, like, you've got to protect this arm. This arm's in a bad spot. Don't reach back like that because then you open yourself up for the arm triangle. You've got to tell him, T-Rex, keep your arms in tight. That's how I coach. Yeah, you have to. When I'm training with somebody, like, I'm talking them through it.

[2:06:23] do before I do it. Yeah. So that they can start to work out their defenses. Right. And, like, get an idea. Oh, that's good. Because as a black belt, like, you can beat everybody up. Like, that kind of loses some of its... [2:06:33] shine after a while. I think that guy was using that dude as just a training dummy. He was like, I can just work my triangles. Yeah, he's just working on his legs. Yeah. Yeah. Because if you can cinch up a triangle, even on a wipeout with no legs, at least you're getting reps in. No, yeah. And it probably makes it somewhat more difficult. It's better than that dummy I have collecting dust in my gym. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Dummy that I'll probably never use. Doesn't fight back at all. Just slight resistance. You know what I do use, though? I use that Bubba dummy. You know that thing? Uh-uh. The punching dummy. Yeah. [2:07:00] It's like the rubber face. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That thing's good. There's something good for that, just target practice. It's good. You can't kick it too hard because it falls over. But if you can kick the face, you can slap the face. Yeah, and there's something about those that just you want to kind of give them a little bit of the business. Yeah. Fuck you, Bob. We have one sitting right next to our boxing ring in the gym, and I'll always post up. It's really good for practicing certain kicks.

[2:07:30] element and you're with a question mark kick you're really trying to go over the shoulder a little yeah like the glob a photo so if you told someone [2:07:38] Glabe Fitosa had the absolute best question mark kick of all time. And his question mark kick would come down on you. It would go over the shoulders and just chop down. And that bob dummy is great for practicing that. It's like the best thing for practicing. Because the bag is so straight. The bag kicking down like that, you don't have a real target like you do with that bob dummy. Because you're really trying to get the neck. You're really trying to go over the top and get that neck. [2:08:08] kick too. Oh yeah, it works though, man. Yeah. That fucker works. That works a lot. Cause like you worry about that front kick to the guts. So you'll do this, you know, or you think a low kick is coming and then it comes over the top. And by the time it's, you don't react is you can't react in time. Yeah. Like you're already planning to get kicked in the leg. And by the time you figure it out, it's in your fucking ear. Exactly. And the guys that are good with like Luke Rockhold has a nasty one. There's guys that are good with it. Like, oof, oof. Yeah. [2:08:36] It's just so sneaky. Over the top. That's another thing. Imagine just running into some Thai guy who you think you could throw around. He'd just fucking blast you with a fucking knee. Not only that, the trips, they're so good at tying up in the clinching and dumping people. Have you ever trained with a guy who's really good at tripping you? Yeah. As soon as you tie up, whoops, your leg is up, and you're like, motherfucker. That's what I always want to throw, like flying ankle bucks. Yeah.

[2:09:06] in jiu-jitsu because in jiu-jitsu, okay, you threw me to the ground. Now it's just started. Yeah. Now I have a hold to your leg. Then the referee's not going to stand us up. I'm going to break your knee. Yeah. Like, you dumbass. You threw me down with an inside control. I have an inside hook. It's like a fucking superpower, too, man. Yeah. I'm so glad I found it. I owe a lot to you, I think, the way you spoke of it back then, even just to get into the gym because that's the fucking hardest part, crossing that door path. Right. [2:09:36] And getting on the mat, like, there's so many days where you're going to be like, I don't want to do that. Like, I don't feel like it. But as soon as you get there, it's, like, so worthwhile and so valuable. Yeah, you just got to force yourself to do it. And that's something I really owe to Eddie. Eddie is crazy, you know, like, creative and abstract as he is. He's super disciplined when it comes to his training. He was always, like, super, super disciplined. Well, you can see it. [2:10:06] like that just [2:10:09] Wherever you can get a hold of the leg. I like to pull with a quarter guard. [2:10:13] You know what I mean? Like, I like to play from there. And, like... [2:10:18] I'm curious. I want to know how many people have the lockdown muscle. [2:10:22] in their fucking calf. I've got a lot, too. No, there has to be. Yeah. But I've never seen one. Get that tip bar, dog. Get that thing. Get that thing. It's not expensive. You put like a little plate on it and you lift with your foot. It's legit, man. You can do tip bar raises where you just stand on your heels and lean against the wall and just lift your foot up over and over and over again. That does it, too. But the tip bar thing, you could do it with weight.

[2:10:49] That's it right there. Look at that sucker. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I have that. I use that fucker every day. I have both of them. I've been wanting my butterfly guard to get better, too. Yeah, man, this will have a big impact on it. [2:11:00] And you could also use it to do a leg extension. So you could do a leg extension and then you could lift the foot at the top if you wanted to. So you could actually emulate. That's so funny. You actually do it from your back now that I'm thinking about it. You could put one of those on each leg and you could lie down on your back. Yeah, just like that. Yeah, and specifically work butterfly guard. [2:11:22] There's so many cool ways to work out now. I know. There's so many amazing people that have, like, figured out ways to protect your knees and protect your back and, you know, and help your shoulder stability. And just they give it away. They give it away online. Like, we have such an amazing resource available now for training. Like, think about, like, if you're a young guy. Like, there's these guys that are coming up that have only been doing jiu-jitsu for a short amount of time. [2:11:52] think and dominating also what why because he's obsessed and because he has all this information online yeah you you can watch so many instructionals there's so many videos of guys pulling things off you can rewind it watch it again rewind it watch again get together with your friend okay put your no put your hand on the left knee okay and then when i push you pull and then what's that yeah like oh shit that works and that takes so long if you're just doing it like in an organic like

[2:12:22] Yeah, for sure. [2:12:23] But the beauty, like I came up with a technique that I haven't seen or haven't done before. That like everything continues to evolve. Even as much as we've all trained the same shit for so long, like there's still new avenues to explore. There's still room to be creative. Always. That's one of the cool things that Eddie will do. Someone pulls something off and they have a thing. Eddie will go, show me that. Show me that. Everybody check this out. And they'll have the whole class gather around. [2:12:53] doing talk me through the thing what i like to do is i like to get mission control and then i shovel this arm through and then i grip it like this and like okay try that and everybody tries it and then eddie will go do it on me you're like huh yeah all right let me try to do it on you huh yeah like do not somebody try to get out of this and then they'll try to like workshop it like would it be better with this would it be better with that like how did you get to this spot like why did did you do you have a pathway that you take to get to this do you get to the spot all [2:13:23] sort of community, too. Like, you have that option. Well, I think that's why I brought that to the comedy community, because that was always the way it was in gyms. Yeah. Like, in jiu-jitsu and in kickboxing and taekwondo and muay thai, like, people teach you how to do stuff. And it's so good for us as, like, a culture, too, like, to interact with people who you may never interact with in your day-to-day life ever. Yeah. Like, to have that sort of community aspect.

[2:13:53] outside of all the other benefits. Yes, there's a lot of community to it. And it's such a, like, vast array of different types of people from every culture, from every sort of class level, and we all find a common... [2:14:08] equality, of course, with a hierarchy of... [2:14:11] of experience but we're all in the same boat together well that's the same with yoga it's the same with a lot of things yeah you know it's just like you find a group of people that have also found this very productive very beneficial thing where you going marshy hi puppy marshal just woke up i saw your new puppy oh he's adorable jesus christ he's marshall's new buddy they're really fun together is it a cocker spaniel no it's a king charles spaniel okay marshy come here buddy [2:14:39] Margie. [2:14:40] Show everybody. Come say hi to everybody. [2:14:43] Come here. Come on. Come on now. Such a cutie. He's tired. Long day. You guys go running? Come on now. Not today. Today. He just came here to hang out. He's the best. Golden Retrievers are the absolute best dogs. [2:14:58] They're just all love. They just want to cuddle with you and hang out with you. They want to play. Yeah. [2:15:05] But the whole thing is just like, be with you. Yeah. Do a Georgetown best. And he's sweet to everybody. I wish they lived like 150 years. I know. [2:15:13] They live. [2:15:14] Well, he's on a really good diet. We're putting him on a farmer's dog now. [2:15:20] changing his food. He was on the Maeve stuff, which is great, but he's on a raw food. Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask you to do the raw. Made a giant difference. Yeah. Giant difference in the way he looks, the way his coat is. Yeah. Giant difference in his energy levels. Yeah. You know, well, it's also it's like they're just like people, man. If you have a person and you feed them nothing but processed food, they're gonna be sick. Yeah. Eating cereal every day. Yeah. I mean, that stuff just sits on the counter. Yeah.

[2:15:47] forever. It sits on a shelf. You go to the pet food store, those bags are sitting there. Any real food shouldn't be just sitting there like that. It's going to rot. So that means that food has nothing alive in it. Yeah. [2:16:00] You've got to give them the fucking raw. Mm-hmm. The raw. Well, like I said... You can cut it with the... [2:16:06] with the drive-thru a little bit. You don't need to. You don't need to. The way they have these, like with Farmer's Dog and with the stuff that he's been eating, Maeve. [2:16:15] It comes with, it's like frozen, like green beans and blueberries and potatoes. Yeah, it's food. And meat. Yeah, it's food. Yeah. And it just changes everything, man. They don't fart as much. Like, it's so much better for them. They have way more energy. It's like his whole body goes. [2:16:32] composition changed yeah i love it when people like actually fucking care like the yeah their pet isn't just a like a fucking decoration no dogs are the best yeah they're your life will be more loving if you have dogs they're just always around they're always cool they're so consistent and they they have simple needs yeah they just want to be unless unconditionally unconditionally loving yeah all the time unless you get a working dog [2:16:58] And there's a lot of dummies out there that go and get a Belgian Malinois and not understand. Like, okay. Yeah. They're great dogs. [2:17:05] But you have a responsibility now because you don't have a regular dog. You have a super athlete. You're living with like a canine race car. Yeah. That's really what that is. Like you can't just leave that in the yard. You see those people that train those dogs. Oh, yeah. Doing the little walk in between their legs as they're walking down. Yeah. My friend Anthony just got one.

[2:17:25] Thank you. [2:17:26] I just got one and he's sending me videos of the puppy. I'm like, oh, my God, this thing is like, bro, training that. When they jump like 25 feet in the air off the wall. They fly. They run right up walls. Yeah. Imagine one of those fuckers chasing you. Yeah, it's hell. They're meat missiles. [2:17:43] I'll send this to you. I'll send it to Jamie because I sent it to Brian Callen because me and Brian Callen are both retarded and we talk about dogs all day long. We talk about like, what's the coolest animal? [2:17:56] how a shepherd, a German shepherd, which is also a great dog, approaches something to the difference to a Belgian Malinois does. [2:18:06] Have you seen it? Yeah, it's jumping across the chairs and shit. Here, I sent it to you. [2:18:11] It's nuts. Like the shepherd runs around. He's like, I'm going to find a way to get to that guy. I'm going to go around this way. The malinois runs over the chair. Watch this. Here's the shepherd. So the shepherd, he's going around. He's got to find the guy. And he gets to him. He bites him. Watch the malinois. [2:18:28] No, let's do the fucking Malmo over the top, over every chair. It's like just so driven. [2:18:36] They're so driven and so athletic, man. And it's not that a German Shepherd's not athletic. Yeah, right. But, like, in comparison, look at what this fucker does, man. Yeah. He just runs over these chairs. He gets there in one second. [2:18:48] insane they're so athletic so like a dog like that is not like marshall like marshall is cool just hanging here chill you got a belgian malinois that motherfucker needs tasks he's just like it's basically like me yeah like you gotta work him out he's gonna do things you can't just have him sitting in the house he'll go fucking crazy otherwise he's gonna be smoking crack back in the alleyway he is adhd in dog form that's what a belgian malinois is like you can't put him on

[2:19:18] to exercise that little guy yeah you gotta work that shit out yeah man he needs and it's like if you have the time to do that they're incredible dogs but it's like you got to know what you're getting you know if you want a dog that just chills get yourself a golden retriever you want a family dog get yourself a go or a lab they're the best they just chill i had a boston terrier for a long time oh they're sweet dogs i haven't been able to get another dog since since he died [2:19:49] It's hard, man. Yeah, it was like a family member. [2:19:51] You know, it's hard, man. It's hard. I still get sad thinking about my dogs. [2:19:56] Yeah. That have died. But, you know, there's loss and there's life. You just got to appreciate them why they're here. Yeah. I always love new ones, too. I love everybody's dogs. I love Carl. Carl's here today. [2:20:08] He seems like a little calmer with Marshall today. Absolutely. [2:20:11] Growing boy. He's growing. He's getting his shit together. Yeah, he's just a puppy, right? He's also listening when you tell him to stop now. He's listening. [2:20:18] Bulldogs are a special breed, especially the English ones. They're just stubborn little pricks. They're going to do what they want. I was watching a lady try to walk her two young English bulldogs this morning. They were walking her. [2:20:36] You'll actually get it with the French bulldog when they put the brakes on. [2:20:39] And they're like, we normally walk this way, but right now, [2:20:42] I'm going that way, bitch. I'm going that way, bitch. Exactly. I'm the boss. Yeah. Especially male dogs with their balls. They'll test you. He's never tested me once. Not once. Not once. Never growled. Never growled. He's pretty fucking mellow. He's the best. You know what he barks at?

[2:20:59] Um, snowmen. [2:21:03] In my neighborhood. In my neighborhood, this guy had a, one of them inflatable snowmen, and I'm taking him for a walk, and he sees a... [2:21:11] He's like, what the fuck is that? Is that a guy? The form of it, whatever it was, and it was one of them inflatable ones, so it's kind of like moving around. Yeah, kind of waving around. He's like, yo, what the fuck is that? Is that a bear? Yeah. I would love to jump in a dog's brain when they have those moments. Right. Right. [2:21:26] Like a snowman freak out. Yeah, probably looks like a fucking monster. Bro, it's so funny because, you know, because I'm relaxed and he's barking. I'm like, bro, trust me. I would be thanking you if that was a bear. He's looking back at you like, are we going to fight this fucking thing? Are you fucking seeing this? [2:21:44] That's a fucking guy. [2:21:46] No, it's just an inflatable thing. But other than that, he never barks. He'll bark if he wants to be let in. That's it. He goes to the door and he just lets out a little bark. Just lets you know, hey. Jamie and I were talking before. It's very interesting how you start to communicate. [2:22:01] with your dogs and you start to understand what they need. And like over enough time, you'd like, you have a silent communication, which is, [2:22:09] Very, very peculiar. And he knows the difference between going for a hike and then coming to the studio. [2:22:15] He knows the difference. Yeah. Like, you know, if we go somewhere and he's going to go run, he's all amped up and he gets out of the car. He gets here and he's like, hey, everybody's cool. What's up? How's everybody doing? Air conditioning's on. He's ready to lie on his back and get pet. Yeah. Yeah. It's like he's...

[2:22:33] He's the best. [2:22:34] Yeah, dogs are fucking amazing. We almost don't deserve them. Well, it's just such a weird thing that we've done. It's so bizarre. They used to be wolves, and you can't train wolves. [2:22:45] There's a reason why wolves aren't in the circus. Think about that. Think about that. You've got monkeys, bears, and tigers that you can train to do circus shows in front of everybody. You can't train a wolf. They won't listen. But yet, we turned a wolf into a dog that literally listens to everything I say. That guy will say, sit down, buddy, relax, and he'll just sit. [2:23:11] You know, all right, you ready to go? He's like, I'm ready. And he just gets up and goes. It's like, how did that happen? And the fact that they have that fucking super gene that they could transform into so many different variations of the same thing. Through selection. Yeah, that's what's weird. Like selective breeding where you could turn a dog into Carl. Like if you have enough time, you can turn a mastiff into this tiny little thing. [2:23:41] Like, this female is a little smaller. Let's breed her with a smaller male. And this one has a shorter snout. [2:23:46] How are they even... [2:23:47] How? [2:23:49] What did you do? How did you get a chihuahua? [2:23:52] From a wolf. A wolf. [2:23:54] They weren't even sure of that until, I don't know, fucking 20 years ago. Really? They thought they came from wild dogs and shit. It's when they started sequencing the genome. They're like, what? Yeah, it's exactly the same. These are all wolves. They kind of thought probably a lot of them came from wolves, like huskies and shit like that. They're like, no, all of them. That sort of symbiosis is really interesting, too.

[2:24:24] our evolutionary line down the way or, you know, like we get connected to these. I think sometimes we forget that we're still a natural part of the environment. Well, how weird is it that plants literally put their seeds in the middle of delicious fruit so that we will eat it and shit it out and that shit will act as a fertilizer and help it grow? Yeah. Yeah. [2:24:46] It's fucking wild. Not only that, but if you eat the seeds, they're bad for you. But if you swallow them... Yeah, it has cyanide in it. So it's like evolutionarily designed for you to just pass it through your digestive tract whole. Just swallow them. [2:25:01] Or even the fact that it's the certain color that reminds us of a flavor. Right. That, like, a certain color looks delicious. Yeah. And all it's doing is tricking us into eating it to shit it somewhere and allow itself to... [2:25:14] Or a certain color that looks poisonous. Right. So you're scared of it. [2:25:19] You know, I was watching this video the other day of a spider that makes a decoy spider and puts it in its web. Yeah, I saw that. [2:25:28] How? It's building a sculpture. [2:25:31] Right. Yeah. [2:25:32] And it looks like a fucking spider, which is really crazy. So how does a spider even know what a spider looks like? And how did it develop? It doesn't have a mirror. It doesn't have a mirror. [2:25:41] Right, how did it develop this ability to... [2:25:44] to make a sculpture out of its own webbing. Like, look at this. That's crazy, man. Yeah. I mean, that's really crazy. [2:25:52] it's making a decoy. Yeah.

[2:25:56] Or like those caterpillars that look like they have a snake on them. [2:25:59] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or whatever. Yeah, yeah. [2:26:02] Or mantises. You ever see mantis that make it look like their arms are giant teeth? [2:26:07] They put their arms together like this. Yeah, the little ridges. And they make it look like they have a giant mouth. Yeah. [2:26:13] Such a fucking bizarre world. Like how? That's the wild thing about evolution. It's like how? What is the entire process that allows something to develop where when the moth opens its wings, it looks like eyeballs? Yeah. Like what is that? Yeah. [2:26:29] It's fucking just life is really good at reproducing itself. How do you get a Venus fly trap where a plant tricks you into coming into the center of this trap and then swam? Yeah. And then it eats flies. Nuts. The whole thing. I mean, that's why you got to, like, find some joy in it. Oh. Like, find a little, you know, entertainment in how fucking bizarre everything is. [2:26:59] Like just having the moment to be like, wow. Wasn't that a part of a problem with working really hard too? Like you don't see the forest for the trees. Yeah. [2:27:08] And you can get caught up in whatever the fuck you're doing and, like, forget. Like, God, the world is pretty amazing. Yeah. The whole thing is so fucking bizarre. Yeah. And, you know, we try so hard to act like we fucking know it all to – [2:27:22] Just leave some room for some mystery. Yeah. It's so important. Well, people are weird, man, and there's no real good working manual of how to live life. Yeah, there's no right way.

[2:27:35] There's no right way. Like any advice anybody tries to give you, they're only working on their own experience. Especially when you're trying to pick a weird career. Yeah. Yeah. Like an artist. Yeah. Like good luck. [2:27:49] Or a comedian or an MMA fighter or anything. Like, you want to do that? Like, who are you going to even ask? You've got to find what you love and literally just fucking go for it. [2:28:00] And I know there's a sort of... [2:28:05] Like, okay, you've got kids. [2:28:08] You got a fucking mortgage. I get it. You know, like I'm I've hustled all kinds of different ways to to make sure I continue to. [2:28:17] on the process, you know, on the path. But like, yeah, it's very different if you have people that you're taking care of and those responsibilities are paramount. But then sometimes maybe that reward system that you would get from something else maybe comes from that. [2:28:30] 100%. 100%. [2:28:33] But what we're saying is that, like, as you are – [2:28:37] listening to this, if you're going... [2:28:39] on your journey into life. And you think you might be going in a safe direction that's going to make money, [2:28:46] versus the direction that you really want to go to ask yourself how bad you really want it like what do you want to do with your life do you want your life to be really fun do you want your life to be really rewarding where you wake up and you're excited about what you do or do you want every day to be a grind do you want every day to be like you can't wait to get off so you can get a cocktail so you can fucking calm down because you hated you hate everybody in the office and everybody treats everybody like shit the boss is a dick and you just get home you just want to drink

[2:29:16] Netflix. [2:29:18] You got to decide. [2:29:20] You've got to decide. And you're going to have to take some drastic steps, and you're probably going to have a lot of doubt, especially if you're doing something weird. Like if you want to be an artist or you want to be a comedian, like, it's a long road, man. That doubt fuels. It can handcuff you and make you stop, but it can also push you to go further. Well, that's where doing something else that's difficult so you know that you can do difficult things really comes in handy. And that's what I always preach about jujitsu. Yeah. [2:29:50] Jiu-Jitsu above all of them is the one that you can do the most. [2:29:54] And you get the most out of it. [2:29:56] And you can get hurt for sure, and I've been hurt a bunch of times, don't get me wrong, but it's a different kind of hurt than sparring. The hurt that you get from kickboxing and, you know, that you were talking about from Muay Thai, it's different. [2:30:08] You can't do that every day. You can't spar every day. You get hurt. Your brain gets beaten up. Your nose gets fucked up where you can't breathe out of it anymore. It's just you don't want that kind of hurt. It's too debilitating, and it could fuck with you for the rest of your life in terms of just literally the way you think. [2:30:29] which was always the scariest thing for me. [2:30:31] Remember when I was thinking about stopping fighting it was like because I was lying in bed at night with headaches. Yeah, I [2:30:36] From sparring days. Yeah. And I was like, what am I doing to my brain? Like, this is the only thing that I have that's going to help me decide how to get through life. It's the only thing that I have. Yeah. And once you start meeting people that you know are compromised, meeting people that you know have brain damage, like, oh. Yeah. You're starting to see it, man. Like, I think people who have been fighters their whole life, you know, starting to see a lot of that, like, CTE or whatever the football players were dealing with.

[2:31:06] I mean, head trauma is so... [2:31:09] so fucking damaging yep like and the way that it could show itself in so many different ways and like gambling addictions yeah drug addictions depression even like manias like like like hallucinations yep you know i i feel like it almost transforms people into like uh [2:31:31] like waking nightmares sometimes for some people. Sure. To where it's like that feeling of like, you know, like you see somebody – [2:31:40] But there's somebody else. Exactly. Right? Like, there's so many, like, aspects that... [2:31:46] just end up... [2:31:49] destroying your normal day-to-day life. Yeah, it fucks up their hormones. It fucks up everything. And, you know, yet it makes for this insanely... [2:31:59] attractive sport to watch. Yeah, and they love it. [2:32:02] You just got to know when to get out. Yeah. You got to know when to get out. And that's what's hard. [2:32:06] And really the hardest thing is... [2:32:09] that they don't have anything else. Because in order to be really good at something like fighting, you have to dedicate your entire life to it. It has to be everything about your waking moment. And when it's not, and it's just a job, that's when it gets fucking dangerous because those guys get really fucked up a lot of the time. Yeah, when you have to get the next fight to... [2:32:26] To keep the fucking train rolling. Yeah. And then you have a family and you realize you don't have any savings. Yeah. And so then to quit, what are you going to do? How are you going to generate – if you're fighting and you're making $250,000, $300,000 a year fighting three or four times a year, how are you going to replace that?

[2:32:44] Yeah, you're not. Yeah, you're not. You don't have any skills. Yeah. Like, all of your skills are in how to fuck people up. Yeah. So what are you going to do? Are you going to teach? Yeah. [2:32:52] You could teach, maybe, especially if you're real technical. Yeah, but that's not going to give you the same quality of life or, like, you know. It could eventually. I mean, there's some guys that make a lot of money off of teaching. Sure. But it's kind of rare, though. I mean. We have to be really good. Yeah. Yeah, you have to be really good. Especially, like, be franchising. There's a lot of demand. You know, like, you could, if you're an Eddie Bravo, you can teach seminars and you have a bunch of affiliates and a bunch of schools. Yeah, but he's in the top, you know, 5%. Exactly. You know. Exactly. For most people, it's a grind. Yeah. Yeah. [2:33:22] I mean, I teach. I was telling Zach, like to me, jujitsu is like a parasite and it got in me. And now it's trying to find other hosts. Like I literally am just trying to share. But it's like it's it's like jujitsu is forcing me to share it. [2:33:36] regurgitating it into some other host so that it can regurgitate itself into somebody else. But it's a beneficial parasite. Don't you think that teaching helps your jiu-jitsu, though? A million percent. I show all of my students all of my tricks so that when I try to use my tricks on them, [2:33:53] It stops working. Yeah. And then I have to evolve the tricks or, like, create other little smoke screens and diversions to get to the spot that I need to get because they know. Yeah. [2:34:03] I like to – I'll show stuff that I don't normally do, but a majority of my curriculum is stuff that I do, that I know works, that I know all the ins and outs of. I know every little detail of how you get to the spot, like what you do, what you do if they do A, B, or C. And that's what I share. Yeah.

[2:34:22] And as I do that, like I notice little techniques not working anymore. Well, don't you think it's also as you explain the techniques to people, it tightens up your own understanding of the techniques and makes you better at it? Yeah, a thousand percent. Because you have to think of it. And like a lot of times our movements are muscle memory, right? We don't really consciously think too much about it because we've done it a thousand times where it's like I do this, then I do this, then I do that. Right. And you don't think about it. [2:34:52] show somebody. You have to think about all those things that you never think about, help explain it to somebody who doesn't know what the fuck you're talking about, and get them to [2:35:04] grasp it. I've seen that time and time again in jiu-jitsu where a guy's pretty good and he starts teaching, like coaching beginners, one-on-one private lessons and stuff to make some extra money. And next thing you know, he's a killer. It's like, wow. I think that's a missing part of the key to development is teaching. I'm honestly surprised when others don't want to do the same. I never gatekeep techniques. If I see something that I [2:35:34] I honestly think I'm a much better coach. [2:35:36] than I am a jujitsu practitioner. Like, I'm horrible at competing. Like, just sometimes I just be like, okay, I'm just going to stay here until I kind of have a room to get out and I don't have to try too fucking hard. But I can see...

[2:35:53] the game much better in my students and right like we're my gym steel mma is a little bit of like a ragtag sort of like bad news bears kind of gym because there's so many high level competitive gyms in san diego yeah but we go to all the local tournaments and we get on the fucking on the podium that's cool you know yeah that's very cool and we're not san diego is a tough place for jiu-jitsu dog shit yeah you got fucking jaco's place down there barrett yoshida's down [2:36:23] Was Hoyler had a school down there for a while? Hoyler's still in San Diego. He's still in San Diego? He actually gave the guy who was the purple belt who threw me on my head that I was talking about earlier, he got his black belt from Hoyler. [2:36:35] Autos is there. Oh, yeah, that's right. That's right. What a hotbed of jiu-jitsu. Yeah, it's like little fucking Brazil. Isn't that funny? California, especially during the UFC's growing period, became one of the biggest hotbeds of jiu-jitsu in the world. [2:36:50] Yeah, they all went there. They all went there because they could surf. Yeah, you could surf. Yeah. Like probably like climate-wise, fairly similar. Fairly similar. Yeah. And then a ton of population to draw from to get students. Yeah. [2:37:02] Yeah. Yeah. Especially in that L.A. area where it's like people were already kind of like into Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris and shit. Right. And then, you know, you see Hoist just fucking freak everybody out. Mm hmm. I mean, I watched all those early fights as a kid. I had a friend's dad who, like, would always fucking get the pay-per-view. That's another thing about Austin. We have so many jujitsu gyms here now. Yeah. You know, Gordon has his place now. B-Team has their place. You've got Gracie Baja's here.

[2:37:32] You've got Shanji Ribeiro's here. Everybody's here. There's like so many different gyms here. [2:37:37] There's multiple 10th planets here. You know, there's – Gabe just opened up a 10th planet in Bastrop. There's a 10th planet right down in this area. There's a 10th planet. There's like three or four 10th planets. Yeah. [2:37:53] yeah [2:37:54] I think there's at least three. [2:37:55] And they're all packed, right? Packed. Yeah. [2:37:58] Yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's like there's so many people that are interested in it because – [2:38:02] It really does work. It really helps you. It not just works as a martial art to learn how to defend yourself. It's a vehicle for understanding yourself better. It helps you in everything you do. As long as you just do it smart and don't get hurt. Exactly. That's like me trying to get up when my neck was pinched. That was jujitsu. I use it in so many aspects of my life. [2:38:23] It's such a beautiful, weird little sport. Yes, sir. Lifestyle. Mike Maxwell, I'm glad you came in. Joe Rogan, thank you for having me. It's fun having me on, my brother. Tell everybody where they can find you online. MikeMaxwellArt.com and all the social medias are at MikeMaxwellArt.com. [2:38:41] My gallery in Santa Monica is BG Gallery, and I've got a gallery out in New Orleans, Mortal Machine. You can find my stuff out there. And is it all on Mike Maxwell Art? Yeah, you can find all that stuff. Okay, beautiful. All right, brother. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you. My man. All right. Bye, everybody.

[2:39:10] This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. [2:39:22] Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know. [2:39:36] I buy one, the Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier and isn't getting more time with our four-legged [2:40:06] best friend something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try the farmer's dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. [2:40:20] Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. This offer is for new customers only.