MURDERED: Robert Wone

[00:00] Hi, Crime Junkies, it's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap. It is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now, wherever you get your podcasts. [00:30] Hi, Crime Junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. And I'm Britt. And quick announcement before we jump into our new episode. A lot of you have heard us mention it before on the show, but we are officially going to be at CrimeCon this year in New Orleans. Britt and I went two years ago for the very first ever CrimeCon here in Indianapolis. We just went as attendees because- Oh my gosh, it was amazing. As hard as it is to remember, we weren't even podcasters back then. It's where we [01:00] this show and the whole event is so inspiring so interesting we learned so many new things from so many wonderful presenters so seriously guys our show aside you have to go but if you go totally use our promo code to get 10 off just use crime junkie 19 and you can meet us and hang out with us in new orleans drink lots of gin and tonics we had drink too many gin and tonics last time

[01:30] I'd get your ticket now because they keep getting more expensive the closer we get to the event. Yeah, definitely. I [01:36] Okay, Britt, business out of the way. Okay. Are you ready for me to tell you about one of the most bizarre true crime cases I have ever researched in my whole life of being a crime junkie? Always. Okay, let's do this. [02:06] Thank you. [02:22] I want to start the story for you, the same place it started for investigators, on August 2nd, 2006, at 1149 p.m. at the address of [redacted address] Northwest in Washington, D.C. [02:52] on the second floor and a fourth roommate whose name is Sarah and her room is in the basement of the home. And on this night in question, Sarah was actually out of town and a visitor took her place in the house. You see, Joseph had a friend who was going to crash in the guest room that night. His friend's name was Robert Wan. They'd known each other for years having gone to undergrad

[03:22] his old friend, if he could stay at his house because he had to work really late and it would just make more sense to crash there and then go right back to work early the next morning. [03:33] I've done similar stuff like this all the time, and Robert's wife wasn't concerned that her husband was staying with a friend. I don't think anyone in the house was concerned that allowing Robert to stay would turn their world upside down for the rest of their lives. And I don't think Robert could have known that making the choice to stay at his friend's house on August 2, 2006 would seal his fate, and this would be the last night of his life. Everything seemed calm on Swan Street that night. [04:02] until Victor emerges from the home in a white robe, hysterical, and talking on the phone to 911. [04:11] DC emergency 911 operator 6752 do you need police, fire or ambulance? What's wrong ma'am? [04:21] with this [04:21] I'm sorry. [04:22] we had someone named us in our house evidently [04:24] And they stabbed somebody. [04:26] Okay, somebody's inside the house now? [04:29] I don't know. We heard... Are they bleeding? We see someone bleeding. Someone is bleeding in our house. Okay, where are they bleeding from? [04:35] I see. [04:36] All right. [04:37] I think he's... [04:38] I think in the stomach. In the stomach, be cautious. [04:41] Oh. [04:42] Calm down for me. I'm gonna send some help, okay? [04:45] Female or male? It's a male. He's a friend of ours. He was sent [04:49] He's spending the night with us. Okay, and who was the person that stabbed him? Do you know? Is he conscious?

[04:56] We need an ambulance. He's not conscious. He's not conscious at all? No. [05:01] We need someone right now. Is he breathing? Listen to me. Calm down. I'm going to help you. Okay. Is he breathing? I'm upstairs and he's downstairs. [05:11] I don't know. [05:13] Okay, who's downstairs with him? [05:15] My partner is downstairs with him right now. He told me to go upstairs. [05:19] and call the case immediately. [05:21] Okay, who's the person? Okay, I'm sending paramedics in the police. Okay, who's the person that stabbed him? [05:27] I don't know. We think of somebody with an intruder in the house. We heard the chime at the door. [05:34] Thank you. [05:41] Yes, it is. Approaching that system, is she still in the home? [05:44] I don't know. [05:48] Thank you. [05:49] Thank you. [05:49] Thank you. [05:53] Thank you. [05:55] Thank you. [05:57] We got help in front, okay? [06:01] We have help in route. [06:04] Thank you. [06:06] They are there. They are en route to you now. I'm seeing the police and the paramedics, okay, to assist. Okay, what I need you to do is go downstairs, okay? [06:13] The place where, wherever he was stabbed at, I need you to get a dry cloth, okay? And just apply pressure to that area. If he was, wherever he was stabbed at on his body, I need you to take a towel downstairs while you're waiting for the paramedics to arrive and just apply pressure. Even if the rag or towel is saturated with blood, just get another towel and put it on top, but never lift the first towel off the area.

[06:34] Hold it on. Once it gets sealed, that will fill. Just put a level of tile on top of that. And just apply pressure until the paramedics arrive. Yes. Yes. [06:44] I'm just sad at the heart. [06:45] - In the heart? - Yes. [06:47] to the Center of History. [06:48] Okay, is he breathing? Is he breathing? [06:52] Thank you. [06:53] Thank you. [06:54] We have help in road now, okay? [06:59] Thank you. [07:01] You don't know who it was? [07:02] technology, I think [07:03] Thank you. [07:05] Don't touch, don't touch. [07:07] Thank you. [07:09] Okay, is he breathing? Yes. [07:10] breathing [07:11] but we need help now. Okay, we have help in roll, ma'am, okay? We do have help in roll. [07:16] Okay, just go down there and try to tell your husband or the other half to just try to keep him calm and talk to him, okay? [07:24] Keep them calm and talk to them until someone gets there. And at the same time, get a dry cloth and just hold it right there in the area. My partner's holding the... Okay. Holding it on in. Okay, and once it gets saturated with blood, tell them, get another one. Go get another towel so you can apply it on top of that one once it gets filled up with blood. We need you to apply pressure on that area. Yes, applying pressure right now. Okay, just hold it in until the paramedics get there. They should be pulling up any moment. They're already in route to your location. You don't know who did this. We have no idea who did this. [07:52] Just so I'm clear, Victor is a man, right? Right. The 911 operator just mistook his voice and he never corrected her, which is why she keeps calling him ma'am throughout the call. But the important pieces of that call were that he tells the operator someone broke into the home. He says that he heard some kind of scream and they heard their door chime, which is what it does when it's opened. And they found their friend dead in the guest room on the second floor.

[08:22] The other piece of that call that I think is really important is that the 911 operator is telling Victor to take a rag or a towel of some kind and hold it as a compression against Robert's stab wounds. She said, hold it down and if it fills with blood, put another one on top of it and hold it down and keep doing that until the paramedics get there. Pretty much basic first aid, right? Exactly. And Victor says that his partner, Joseph, is doing exactly that while he's on the phone. [08:52] this call at 11:49. Fast forward just a few minutes to 11:54 when paramedics arrive on scene. And these aren't like first day on the job paramedics. These are two seasoned EMTs with a combined 25 years on the job. They have seen it all. [09:11] Except tonight would be a first. Victor tells them to go to the second floor where they rush to aid a man they're told is dying. When they hit the second floor, before they make it to the guest room, they pass Dylan in the hall. He too, like Victor, is in a bathrobe. And one of the paramedics asks him what's going on. But Dylan doesn't say anything and he just retreats back into his room. [09:41] bed wearing only a pair of underwear and his back is to the door and he wasn't even touching the victim much less applying any pressure to his wounds. Already the paramedics start to get strange vibes. I think it's what we would call the full body chills. One of the paramedics would later say that in all of his 10 years on the job the people he encountered on these life-saving missions

[10:11] crying, yelling. But everyone in this house seemed to be eerily calm. And a quote he gave to investigators said it made the hair on the back of his neck stand up. Definitely full body chills. Definitely full body chills. And it made this paramedic so uncomfortable, in fact, that when he walked into the room, he took the longer path to Robert going to the other side of the bed [10:41] him for any weapons but it wasn't just the behavior of the other people in this house that told the paramedics something was wrong when they finally make it to robert's side and are able to actually examine him right away at first glance they have a whole new set of reasons for being suspicious the first thing they could see just from looking at him was yes just like victor had said on the phone robert had been stabbed three times in fact they could see the wounds through [11:11] which he'd been stabbed through, twice in the abdomen and once directly in the heart. There was a gaping wound in his chest big enough to fit a finger into. [11:21] but where was all the blood [11:24] According to the EMTs, there was no blood whatsoever on the victim, and there was very little blood anywhere else in the room. They examined Robert, and they said no blood was coming from any of the wounds. And as they continued to work on him, they saw a couple of spots of blood on his chest, but it wasn't flowing from the wound.

[11:55] And the more they looked at the scene, there was even more that felt wrong. [11:59] The bedding that he was laying on, it wasn't somebody who had been sleeping. He was laying perfectly on top of a maid bed where the comforter and sheet had been pulled crisply down to like a 45 degree angle. Robert lay completely on top of it with his hands by his side, laying on his back, his head flat on the pillow. There were no other indentations on the pillow or the bed. [12:29] attacked. There were no signs of life when paramedics were on the scene, but they transported him to the hospital where he was pronounced dead at 1225 in the morning. 36 minutes after that call to 911. And now it was up to detectives to find out exactly what the hell happened in that house. [12:51] For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. [13:10] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. Listen to the deck now. [13:18] wherever you get your podcasts. [13:22] Investigators know to get to the bottom of this mystery, they need to do two things. Number one, question all of the people in the house that night. And number two, search the home and process it as a crime scene.

[13:37] So while the crime scene technicians are working on the physical evidence, all three men who lived in the home, Joseph, Victor, and Dylan, were questioned by police. And their statements were pretty consistent. Dylan, who they learn is a massage therapist and like an ex-chef, and he's the one that stayed alone in a room on the second floor. [14:07] stuff, his wife, life, all of it. And then they ended up all retiring to their rooms. [14:11] And Dylan says that he laid up in bed for a little bit reading an article and he heard Robert take a shower and then go into his room. And soon after, he fell asleep. And he says the next thing he knew is that he comes out of his room after he hears a little bit of commotion and Victor's on the phone with 911. And he sees Joseph sitting on the bed in his underwear, pressing a towel against Robert's wounds. And the next thing he knew, EMTs arrived. [14:41] bedroom on the third floor. He said that he had actually come home early from a business trip. And he was told that Robert would be staying with them, but he was really tired and went to bed early. So he actually never interacted with Robert. He said that by the time Robert got there, he was already up in his room and he was able to corroborate the time because he said when he heard him come in, he was watching Project Runway. So it was about 1030. And we love Project Runway. I mean, when we started a podcast, it was like, is it going to be true crime or Project Runway?

[15:11] I would still do a Project Runway recap podcast with you. Yeah. So he's up watching Project Runway. Hears him come in, but he doesn't go down to, like, say anything. But he says... [15:22] exactly what Dylan said, that Dylan and Robert and Joseph were downstairs, had a glass of water. They come upstairs and he and Joseph go to bed. He says the next thing that they hear is the door chime and [15:36] They have like an alarm system on their home. But he said for whatever reason, it wasn't set that night, which to me is... [15:44] what's the point of having an alarm system if you don't set it? Yeah. And then more than that, so like we have an alarm system in our house, and if it's not set like during the day, if you open the door, you hear a chime. Right. And so they said it's not set. They hear the door open as a chime, but no one goes to check. Even though they know that their fourth roommate, Sarah, is like gone for the night, at the time they say it's their thought that maybe she had just come back and didn't tell anyone, but they don't even go look. So they hear this chime. [16:13] And then they hear this kind of what they call like a low scream or breathy grunts. Okay, that sounds normal. Right. And this prompts them to get out of bed and they go directly to Robert's room where they say they find him. And then Joseph tells Victor to go call 911. Okay. [16:31] Now, that's Victor's statement. Again, totally matches Dylan's statement. And then when they get Joseph's statement, his exactly corroborates Victor's. He says Robert arrives around 1030. Robert and Dylan have some water. They chit-chat. They all go to bed. Him and Victor are woke up by the noises, go to Robert's room, find him. And then he ends up telling Victor to call 911. Now, because he was the one that seemed to have the most interaction with Robert, he gives them more information than the other men are able to.

[17:01] He finds Robert laying on the bed and he lifts up his shirt to see that he's covered in blood. Now he tells Victor to call 911 and he makes it a point of saying to the police that he found the knife on Robert's stomach and then moved it to the nightstand where the crime scene text would find it later. More specifically, he says something along the lines of, well, [17:26] I handled the knife, so it's probably going to have my DNA on it, but it probably wouldn't have a killer's DNA on it because I'm sure, like, a killer would have worn gloves. So expect to find mine, but no one else's. [17:38] - What? - Yeah, like it's a little bit fishy. You don't open with that line. - Like, I realize I'm a crime junkie. You're a crime junkie. [17:48] That is so far away from the drill. If you're even near something that happened, it seems insane. We all know that. I mean, but also, I don't know how. That's not, but that's so rudimentary, it seems like. But also, I don't know how I would react. And maybe I would be so paranoid about actually being a crime detective, like, so paranoid about my DNA on it that I'd be like, oh, my God, you're going to find it. Like, I don't know. Like explaining it away before it's there. [18:18] You have no idea how you're going to react. So, you know what? How about even for this one, we give him the benefit of the doubt. Okay. But let's keep going. Yeah. So... [18:25] He also tells investigators that he held the towel against Robert's chest, just like the 911 operator had told Victor to do. And then he waited for paramedics to arrive. During this interview with police, Joseph seemed especially concerned with Dylan. And where was Dylan? And what was Dylan saying? And during a break, Joseph actually called his brother and asked if Dylan had been let out of his interview room yet.

[18:55] whether or not Dylan knew he was entitled to a lawyer. Like it was just lots and lots of questions about Dylan. That seems kind of odd. [19:03] Do we know why he would do that? [19:06] I don't know exactly. I've heard that when the police first arrived on the scene, that Dylan was getting like a little bit chatty and Joseph was like evil eyeing him. But I don't know how accurate that is. But there is something that police learned during these interviews that might shed some light on Joseph's concern with Dylan. [19:36] amorous relationship. It is described as Joseph and Victor being in the most serious, committed piece of this relationship. But then also Dylan and Joseph were involved intimately in this dominant, submissive relationship. And the men were trying to make the relationship work between all three of them, which they describe as a family. Well, I've got to be honest, I was not expecting the [20:06] I don't think. But even still, at first, I'm not sure it really mattered. How would the decision of these three adults play into the murder? It was really hard to see. Still is hard to see. But knowing this begins to color the rest of the investigation for police. So with their three statements, they can start to look at what was found at the crime scene. Does the evidence

[20:36] an intruder anywhere. Two of the men, Victor and Joseph, were telling them that someone else was in the home. So why? What did they take? Why were they there? The answer is they took nothing. First of all, the front door was locked. The men said the back door could have been left unlocked. And in fact, it would have had to have been if they heard that door chime. But their backyard, and yard [21:06] It had this seven-foot fence, and that fence had been closed and locked. So the assumption is someone had scaled this seven-foot fence, came into the home, went directly to the second floor, and what, killed their house guest, and then just left? Do we know if anything was taken? Like, anything? Not a single thing. There were valuables on the first floor the person could have easily taken. TVs, like, anything. Right. [21:36] No, they took nothing. They go right to the second floor and fine. OK, say they wanted to bypass everything. They can't hold the big stuff like TVs. They just opened Robert's door. Fine. Maybe they passed Dylan's door. But then it seems like what they did was just stab Robert, leave both of the wallets that he had, his Blackberry, his watch, all of his clothes and [22:00] The more like you're talking about it out loud, this theory is losing traction really fast. And it only gets less plausible from here. The investigators focus on the room that Robert was sleeping in. Like it did with paramedics, one of the first things that sticks out to them is the lack of blood. And like anywhere, except for that little bit of blood on Robert's chest that had the striation marks, there was hardly anything else.

[22:30] of blood on the bed which is strange since Joseph specifically said in his interview that he went to the room and had lifted up Robert's shirt and said he saw a lot of blood okay wait [22:43] Why does he have to lift up Robert's shirt at all? Like... [22:48] If there was blood everywhere, wouldn't the shirt have soaked it in and you would be able to see it from just standing there looking at him? Exactly. His shirt was gray. And as far as I can tell from the police's report, there were just three holes in the shirt corresponding with the knife wounds, but absolutely no blood on it. So almost no blood on the victim, two small spots on the bed. [23:18] So the other place that the investigators assume that they're going to find blood is... [23:34] the towel. [23:36] Oh, wait, what towel? Well, if you remember, the paramedics told Victor to hold a towel to Robert's wounds to stop the bleeding. Right. And even in his statement to police, Joseph said that he had done exactly that. [23:51] There was a towel and it was in the room. And this is one of the only things that we actually have a picture of. And I think in this case, truly, a picture is really worth a thousand words. Okay, Brett, so I'm going to send this to you right now. And I've also posted it on our Instagram at Crime Junkie Podcast. Just to clarify...

[24:15] Those stab wounds, they weren't like three paper cuts by any chance, were they? We'll get there, but they were four and a half inches deep, and one of them was directly into his heart. [24:28] that [24:29] supposedly was beating at the time, right? That was, and it actually was. [24:34] Yeah, I don't buy it. Yeah, so tell people what you're seeing in the picture. There are three... [24:40] places where there is blood on this towel. [24:45] One is actually kind of significant. If I were to cut myself while I was cooking, the towel would probably look like that. Yeah, if you were to cut maybe a finger while you were cooking. Right. Not stab yourself in the heart while you were cooking. Right. If I nicked the side of my finger, I would grab a towel and it would look like that. The other ones... [25:04] Honestly... [25:05] I've... [25:06] I bled more when I cut my legs shaving. No, it's hardly [25:11] anything, like where is the blood? [25:13] the one I can barely see. So to be clear, they're saying that this is the only thing that was held up against Robert's wounds. [25:22] at all. Like there's nothing else. This was the towel that they were using [25:28] Even before 9-1-1 said, if you need another pilot on, right? Yes. [25:33] Yes. Yeah. So this is the towel, the only towel that has blood on it in the entire house. So they're saying they held it. This has to be the towel. But here's the thing. I don't think that blood came from holding it against Robert. I don't think anyone thinks that. But actually, you know, let me take that back. I don't think the towel was used for any life-saving measures is probably more accurate. I think part of that towel...

[26:02] was pressed against Robert's wounds to get blood on it. But [26:07] for an entirely different reason. [26:11] you [26:11] For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. [26:30] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. Listen to the deck now. [26:38] wherever you get your podcasts. [26:41] I think that that towel was actually used to transfer blood from Robert's body onto the knife that was found on the nightstand. The one that Joseph said he took off of Robert's stomach when he found him. Why do you think that? Well... [26:57] One would assume that the knife covered in blood, found right next to the body of a dead man with stab wounds, is the knife that killed him. But it's not adding up to be the murder weapon. [27:07] First, the blood pattern on the knife [27:10] actually are like swipe marks, like someone had taken something, say a towel, and had held the towel open in one hand while placing the knife in their palm and then pinching the towel closed and smearing the blood on the blade. Back to my kitchen thing, I can totally see that. Yeah, and this theory was further pushed forward when the blade was forensically tested and they found that there

[27:40] cutting edge, meaning that there is no way that this knife went into his body. Furthermore, there were more than 10 white cotton fibers found on that knife that were consistent with the towel found at the scene, while there were no fibers on the knife that were consistent with Robert's shirt, which had cut marks on it, so you would be expecting to see gray fibers on the knife if it were used to kill him. Wait. [28:06] This is getting twisted. So you're saying someone did stab him, but with a different weapon? [28:14] Mm-hmm. But... [28:15] they decided to place a dummy weapon on the body to throw the police off. It doesn't make any sense, but it seems like exactly what happened here. Is there any chance that maybe... [28:27] One of the other guys in the house found the knife, panicked, [28:30] washed it, and then was like, what am I doing? So they tried to stage it so it would make sense. I mean, again, you never know what somebody's going to do, but no, I don't think that that knife was used at all. And this is actually kind of the perfect transition to start talking about Robert's autopsy. So first of all, the wounds that were found in Robert were about four to five [29:00] The knife that was found on the nightstand [29:03] was five and a half inches in length. And this just doesn't work. You would have to stab forcefully enough to penetrate a human body, but know exactly when to pull back so that an inch of the knife stayed above his skin. Like, I don't know how that's physically possible. And neither did the medical examiner or the police. They conclusively ruled that this knife that was found next to Robert was in fact staged. It was taken from the kitchen and then placed next to him.

[29:33] murder weapon was still missing. Additionally, Robert's stab wounds were exactly [29:40] the same, like not just the same length, but the same angle, the same cut mark, no signs of tearing like you would expect to see if you were stabbing somebody who was fighting back for their life. There were no defensive wounds on Robert anywhere, and he didn't have a lot of blood on his hand, which is exactly something you would expect to see if someone was stabbed. Like they instinctively like reach for the wound and would have like clutched his abdomen and his heart [30:10] investigators to conclude that Robert wouldn't have been conscious. [30:15] when he was stabbed. - Okay, so back to my question earlier, was his heart even beating? [30:21] So I actually kept thinking that exact same thing, like with the lack of blood, maybe he was already dead. And like this whole stabbing thing is the actual biggest staging of it all. But no, he was alive because the report showed that after he was stabbed, his blood had started to pool in his digestive tract, which means that his digestive system was still functioning at the time that he was stabbed. [30:51] cause of death. And there's something else that suggests that he had been like paralyzed or maybe just rendered unconscious instead of actually like dead before he got stabbed. He had at least six fresh needle marks on his body. Please tell me they ran a toxicology report to see if there was anything in his system. All right so here's the rub. This is the part of the case that literally made me bang my head against my desk when I was researching. The medical examiner did a toxicology

[31:21] Right when he got Robert's body, they tested for like all the normal drugs, alcohol, all of which were negative, but they didn't do any testing for any kind of like paralytics. What? [31:33] Yeah, so here's the thing though, you have to remember that I'm telling you this story over 30 or 40 minutes, but all of these events were taking days or sometimes weeks, and it takes police time to piece together all of the things that aren't adding up. So [31:50] they send the first sample off right away because they always do that in a murder case but then i guess [31:57] They just never had a blood sample saved once they realized that he... [32:03] was like totally paralyzed when he'd been stabbed. I couldn't find like a for sure reason. [32:09] No other tests were done. [32:12] That's so frustrating. Yeah, I don't know. There is always one part of each of the cases that we do that I tend to fixate on. And this is the one for me, like, to me. [32:23] It couldn't be more clear that he was incapacitated. Like even the paramedics who were first on the scene noticed that something was wrong. And it's clear to me that he was murdered. But people are saying that there's no proof. So, OK, why don't we just go get that proof? If we have his body, why aren't we running these tests again? I don't like I don't feel like we'd be talking about this so many years later. [32:46] if we had this but they didn't so let's get back to the autopsy because there's even more they also find evidence that robert had a pillow held to his face for some time like someone maybe tried to smother him before they stabbed him i'm not a hundred percent sure

[33:06] what to make of that, but it's just worth throwing out there. The medical examiner also took swabs from his genitalia, his thighs, his anus, and his rectum. Just like is done in most autopsies to show for any signs of recent intercourse or sexual assault. In every place swabbed, [33:29] "The medical examiner found semen." - Okay. - Yeah, and to me, that's not, [33:34] The crazy part. Are you ready for the wrench that's going to get thrown in? Ugh. [33:41] I guess. After the DNA testing is done, they find that [33:47] All of the semen samples, all of it. [33:50] you [33:50] is Robert's own semen. [33:53] I'm sorry, what? Even in his rectum? Yes. And... [33:59] For the publicity that this case got, I think it was totally sensationalized. And I read so many theories about Robert being secretly gay or he went there for this or that. But no, like everyone can just stop those theories. Like, don't let your mind wander. Robert was very supportive of the LGBTQ community, always had been. That's like how him and... [34:22] Joseph from the house became very close. They were both active and stuff like that in college. But he was straight and there hasn't been a single piece of evidence that has ever come forward suggesting he ever had any kind of gay affairs, any kind of gay relationships. And this isn't just my opinion. This is the same opinion drawn by the police and the investigators who actually looked at this case. Because of how the evidence was found and where, specifically the fact that it

[34:52] include that Robert had been sexually assaulted before his death. So most likely the order of events were that he was rendered unconscious, most likely with some kind of paralytic. [35:04] sexually assaulted, then maybe someone attempted to smother him, and when that didn't work, he was stabbed three times. [35:12] Sorry, give me a second to wrap my head around this one. Like... [35:16] This guy goes to his friend's house just to crash before work the next morning, and... [35:21] He's raped, then stabbed to death, but probably not in his bed. [35:27] The scene is cleaned up and staged, and the people in the house are still saying... [35:31] It was all an intruder who did this. Yep. That doesn't make any sense at all. Nope. And I'm not even done yet with this case. Oh, my God. So we've processed the bedroom. The autopsy has been completed. Now let's move further outside of the room and take a look at the other stuff found in the home, along with witness testimony, people who were outside of the house. When police search the rest of the house, the only drug that they find anywhere is some ecstasy. [36:01] that drug dogs who are trained to hit on cocaine, marijuana, and opiates hit on two places in the house, one place in Dylan's room and one place in Joseph's, but they don't find anything, just the ecstasy. [36:13] I mean, both those things are interesting, but we know that none of those were in Robert's system. Right. Totally agree. So let me tell you what else they find. OK. When they search Dylan's room, they find loads of sex toys and restraints and books on BDSM, which honestly, like, who cares? If you're a grown consenting adult like you do, you have fun. We already knew that him and Joseph were in a dominant, submissive relationship. So most of this would have been kind of commonplace for them.

[36:43] was this one specific device. [36:47] For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. [37:06] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. Listen to the deck now. [37:13] wherever you get your podcasts. [37:16] It was an electrical shock device that's also called a milking machine. It's placed on the penis and it's used to force somebody to ejaculate. So it's believed that this device could have been used on Robert as part of his sexual assault and this is how his semen would have gotten all over him. [37:41] This was found in Dylan's room, so if it was used, it kind of proves that the killer had to have taken it from his room and then replaced it. [37:53] And I'm sorry, are we still saying that this is an intruder? Right, because Dylan was in his room at the time, right? Exactly. And the bad news here is I know police collected it, but I can't actually find the report on any testing done to the machine itself. So it's another big question mark for the case. But in all of the police's summaries, they keep referencing this machine.

[38:15] Again, I don't know what exactly testing they did on it, but it's their assumption that that machine was used on Robert. Now, in case you wanted to have even more questions about this case, how about this one? Also in Dylan's room, they find a cutlery set because remember, he was a trained chef. So in this set, there is a large knife. [38:36] a large fork, and an empty pocket where a smaller knife is supposed to be. A smaller knife that would have been about four and a half inches in length. What? [38:48] It's just missing? Yes. A knife the exact length of the wound is missing, right? Yes. And that knife, to this day, has never been found. And know what else was never found? Yes. [39:02] Any more blood. At first, crime scene techs used a chemical called Ashley's Reagent, which I had never heard. Love the name, but turns out it's super unreliable. And Ashley's Reagent showed 170 items in the home that supposedly had blood on them. But when those items were sent to the FBI, none of them tested positive for blood. So they ended up bringing a dog into the home who can sniff out blood and decay as well. [39:32] prep it's more than any reagent so there were two spots that the dog hit on there is a drain outside in that back courtyard area and [39:42] and in the dryer lint trap. What does it mean to have blood in the lint trap?

[39:50] I don't know exactly, but there is also an uncoiled hose near the drain outside. So I think the theory is, what I keep reading anyway, is that somebody hosed themselves off outside, washed off all of the blood on them and their clothes, and then put their clothes in the dryer. [40:20] showered. Okay, but if a person was so covered in blood that they had to hose themselves off, [40:25] That sounds like a very bloody crime scene. [40:29] But where was it? Where did the crime happen? I don't know, and that's the mystery. I'm sorry, I just don't get it. The timeline doesn't even work. It only took [40:40] emergency responders a few minutes to get there after the 911 call happened. [40:44] How would all of this been cleaned up already? Well, that actually brings me to the witness they have in this case that creates an entire new timeline. This witness is their next door neighbor. This neighbor was actually in their bedroom, which shared a wall with the room Robert would have been sleeping in that night. That neighbor was in their room watching the news on August 2nd. They remember a specific segment which aired from 11 to 1130. [41:14] And during this segment, they remember hearing a scream. Any chance it was the same, like, guttural scream that was heard earlier? So the more police pulled out of the men, they said it was like blow breathy grunts. And this guy says, this witness says that it's like a full scream. So the more I read about this case, the more people theorize that the scream the witness heard was actually Victor screaming when he came into the room and saw Robert's body.

[41:42] So, [41:43] If this is Victor finding Robert, [41:45] This is bad for the men in the house. Wait, why? Because the absolute latest this could have happened was when the guy was watching that news segment and that news segment ended at 1130. That means that they scream, they find the body at 1130 at the very latest. Then that means they waited 19 minutes to call 911. And that's best case scenario. [42:15] 11 o'clock, which means then that 49 minutes went by before Victor called 911. What is happening? This case is insane. Truly, there was supposedly evidence on Roberts Blackberry that he was alive at 1107. There were two drafted emails, one to his wife, one to his friend about lunch plans the next day, but neither one got sent. [42:45] but having two messages in draft seems almost fishy. [42:51] Like, okay, it narrows down the window to 42 minutes, but to me it's more likely that somebody who wasn't really familiar with a BlackBerry tried to fake these emails to provide some kind of false timeline to the evening, but they didn't realize how to actually make them send. But we will never know, because the chain of custody on this BlackBerry got all kinds of messed up, and it was eventually returned to Robert's work and wiped clean before anyone could do any kind of real testing on it. No!

[43:21] for two years in this case, [43:24] nothing happened. It wasn't until late 2008 when all three men, Joseph, Victor, and Dylan, were charged [43:33] but not with murder. [43:35] They were charged with obstruction of justice. [43:38] And here's a quote from their indictment. [43:40] The evidence demonstrates that Robert Wan was restrained, incapacitated, sexually assaulted, and murdered inside of [redacted address]. [44:10] of the murder. The men's lawyers claim that all of this is speculation and they maintained their innocence throughout the trial. On June 29, 2010, a judge in charge of this case found each of the three men not guilty of the charges of conspiracy, obstruction of justice, and tampering with evidence. She explained in her ruling, which took her like an hour, that she personally believed that [44:40] killed Robert. But she wasn't convinced by any kind of reasonable doubt that they committed the offenses that they were charged with. Around the same time that they were charged for obstruction of justice, Robert's wife also sued all three men in a civil case for like $20 million for failing to rescue Robert after he was injured. And they ended up settling outside of court for an undisclosed amount. Now, the latest I could find on the men show that they might own some property

[45:10] there. Joseph has changed his name from Joseph Price to Joseph Anderson. Victor is still going by his full name, Victor Zaborski. And Dylan also changed his name. He's actually living out in Seattle and he's no longer Dylan Ward. He's going by Dylan Thomas. Wait, wait. [45:27] That's it? This is the end? Yes, so that was 2016, and that's it, girl. This case is a cluster. We could spin in circles all day trying to figure out what exactly happened in the house that night, but truthfully, the only people who will ever really know are Joseph, Victor, Dylan, and Robert. This case feels exceptionally tragic when I think about Robert's wife. [45:57] than even our usual unsolved cases. Like again, [46:01] You're staying with a friend. These people weren't strangers. How did the night go so wrong? How did Robert misjudge these people so severely? And what in the world was the motive for this crime? These were all successful men with everything to lose. And it seems like this was clearly a stage scene and some kind of cover up. But how is no one serving time for this murder? There are so many wrongful convictions. [46:31] super easy to put someone in jail for literally anything. Yeah. So there seems to be [46:37] a lot of reasons here [46:39] to find someone guilty, but nobody's serving time. And I would love a true crime docuseries to get their hands on this case because not a single piece of the timeline or the evidence will ever make sense to me.

[46:54] we would love to hear your thoughts on this case check out our episode thread on the facebook discussion group check out the pictures we talked about on instagram at crime junkie podcast you can also look on the blog you can tweet at us your theories at crime junkie pod and the blog is [47:24] Guys, don't forget to check out our Patreon. We have over 21 full-length episodes for you guys to check out. Our husbands just did an episode. We're calling Crime Hunky. It was so good. And I think we're going to have, like, a short follow-up on this case because I told Brett we have literally so many theories. There's so many tiny things that I couldn't get into in this case that I just want to hash out and have more of a conversation around rather than storytelling. So if you can't stop thinking about it, if you're into it, sign up for the $5. [47:54] on your plate right away. And if not, we will be back next week with a brand new episode. [48:05] This episode of Crime Junkie was researched, written, and hosted by me with co-hosting by Britt Prewatt. All of our editing and sound production was done by David Flowers. And all of our music, including our theme, comes from Justin Daniel. Crime Junkie is an AudioChuck

[48:24] Do you approve? [48:29] Outro Music. [48:43] Okay, Ashley, I'm still in the prepper of the month beat because your emotions are just not okay with preppets. I can't handle it, but I love hearing the stories. Okay. So today we're going to talk about two preppets, which I love a double feature. We're going to talk about Odin and Dahlia. Ooh, good names. Yeah. So our listener, Rika, [49:10] wrote in about her dogs and I'm so excited to tell you about them. She said about Odin, Odin is my baby, my shadow, my light, and he is just as crazy about me as I am about him. And I'm like, girl. Niles, for you. You're speaking my language. Isn't it amazing how, like, I don't know if this is true for everyone, but most people I know, they have a different, like, and deeper connection with their first dog. Always. Oh, I totally believe it. Like, Niles, and if you're [49:40] because my husband talked about it in the Crime Hunky episode, Niles is my first child. Like, he and I, when we're at home, we're literally connected. [49:49] He lays outside my door while I record, and it's like a thing. He's always with me. And, evidently, that's what Odin is for our listener. And how they met Odin was something that I will never identify with, but basically our listener, Rika, and her husband, for fun, used to just visit shelters to play with dogs, which, like, I get playing with dogs. I don't, like...

[50:14] fault you that you're doing a great thing, but I can't visit a shelter [50:19] without getting a dog no i i love the people who volunteer at shelters and they volunteer to do exactly that like play with dogs go walk the dogs a good cause it is because those poor little puppers shouldn't be in the cage all day but it it would actually kill me yeah i would have every dog i played with oh good for you oh my gosh okay so they would do this like as a date which is [50:42] adorable, but again, could never do it. And for some reason, Rika always loved blonde pitbulls. And like, I love a good pit, so no shame. And for some reason, none of these blonde pitbulls seem to like her. Shut up, really? Which, as someone who, like, [51:05] gets personally offended when a dog doesn't gravitate towards me. I get it. You do. So one day after a lunch date and a beer or two, they decided to hit up their favorite shelter, a [51:19] Again, this is just so unbelievable to me. So true. [51:23] They had no intention of getting a dog and had done this so many times before, but there they are surrounded by all these cute little puppets. [51:33] And out of nowhere comes this smiley, happy, one-year-old, blonde pitbull. Oh, that liked her. So he was covered in scars. His ears were all scabbed up. And he was actually bleeding. But he would not stop kissing her. And it was like Velcro. She knew he wouldn't let her leave without him. And...

[52:00] Like, I love pits because they're so expressive, but she claims that Odin had the most expressive face, and his smile is just massive. And he knew the second they got him in the car that he was theirs, and he didn't stop smiling for days. You guys, I'm about to cry. Again, there's the rescue dogs. Their attitude is just incredible. And she does want to go back to the point that he was covered in blood. [52:30] found in Philadelphia a few blocks away from where it was known to have a lot of dogfights in the area. Oh hell no. So they think that he either escaped or [52:41] Or someone threw him out when he lost a fight. But he's the happiest, smiliest, most mommy-loving puppet. Or, as she calls them, doopies. Which... [52:53] is also really cute that they've ever met. [52:59] Love that story. Again, I have like a huge soft spot for Pitbulls. They're so cuddly. They're truly the happiest dog. Those smiles I just cannot get over. Yeah, obviously, like all of our puppet loving crime junkies are on board with all kinds of dogs. But I think it's so tragic that Pitbulls have gotten such a bad name because it is all about the owner and the life. And they even the ones that are like victims of dog fighting can turn out to be the sweetest, most loving animals. [53:29] Like, she has scars all over her. But no one wants to love you more than Razzo. I know. Dogs are so amazing. Again, we've said a thousand times we don't deserve their love. But they're like an amazing example of...

[53:44] like second chances, like just because one human [53:47] tried to destroy you like it doesn't mean the next one won't love you to death [53:53] Okay, so that's the story of Odin, right? But we also have Dahlia. And two years after they got Odin, our listener went to buy dog food. And I'm assuming it's like a PetSmart because... [54:06] An adorable chocolate lab pit mix comes running up to her. So I think it's like a puppy event or something. Or maybe this woman literally just attracts dogs. You can't go to PetSmart on a Saturday or Sunday because that's when they do their adoption days. Like I have learned. I have all my dog food like shipped to me or I go in the middle of the week to avoid exactly that scenario. That's why I only have two dogs. Yeah. [54:29] So this little lab pit mix comes running up to her, literally shoving all the other dogs out of the way with her head and make sure that she was the only one getting attention. And what really got to Rika was this giant scar across this puppy's face. A scar on his face? Yeah, it was around her snout and almost into her eye. And it turns out that some had tied her up and wrapped her snout in barbed wire. [54:59] moment, as soon as they found out, they had to take her home. So our listener drove home, grabbed her husband and Odin to meet her, and her husband fell in love immediately. And she told us that her husband has the softest spot for abused dogs, which, dude, same. Same. I mean, come on. And Odin really wasn't interested until...

[55:24] Rika brought sweet Dahlia out and said, "I got you a present!" and put Dahlia right in front of him. And ever since then, they've been completely inseparable, and her husband finally got a dog of his own. Oh, good! Yeah, so I just love these two. I love the Odin story again, soft spot for pities. [55:47] And poor little Dahlia has been through so much. Even after I talked to Rika, you know, Dahlia has been sick. She's had a couple of health issues. And go to our Facebook discussion group. You'll see more about it there. Yeah. [56:00] I just love puppets. I love doing this. Ashley, I hope you never get emotionally stronger because these stories are so much fun to tell. Like you tell the murder stories and I'll tell the puppet story. Yeah, I mean, I can let you know for a fact, like as long as Charlie's... [56:14] face hair keeps getting grayer and grayer. Like, I'm getting weaker and weaker, and I can barely say the P word and not get teary-eyed. [56:27] Okay, crime junkies, you know I absolutely love a twist and a turn, especially when it comes to people who turn out to be someone they're not. That's why I have been obsessed with the podcast Chameleon. Every Thursday, host Josh Dean deep dives into a scam so bizarre, it will leave you wondering, how did they get away with that? [56:45] It is truly one of my favorite podcasts right now, and I've been listening for years. [56:49] I think you'll love it too. [56:50] Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.