MURDERED: The Coleman Family

[00:00] Hi, Crime Junkies. It's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap. It is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now wherever you get your podcasts. [00:30] Hi Crime Junkies, Britt here. It is Labor Day here in the U.S. and Ashley and I have been spending the weekend watching opening day of college football, eating way too much, and hanging out with our families. But we knew we couldn't keep our junkies hanging, so we have a news story for you today, and this one Ashley has been super interested in since it happened. So I think you're really going to enjoy it. [01:00] Thank you. [01:28] I'm going to tell you the story of the Coleman family today. And the Coleman family is Chris, his wife, Sherry, and their young sons, Garrett, who's 11, and Gavin, who is 9. Chris and Sherry met both while in the military. Chris was actually in the Marines, and Sherry was in the Air Force. And this is like a fun fact about me. My grandfather was in the Marines, so I can sing the Marine Corps hymn now.

[01:53] And it's like how I used to pick up guys in bars. Do it. No, no, I can't hear. I can't hear. But I like mad respect for people in the Air Force. Like, thank you to everyone who's served. So they actually, something I love even more about the both of them is they met in a canine training camp, like while they were both in the military, they quickly fell in love. I mean, who can't fall in love over a puppet? And Chris brought Sherry home to meet his family. [02:23] they actually call Chris's family up to let them know that they had gotten married over the weekend. Like courthouse, middle of the weekend, didn't tell anyone, just did it. Well, that progressed quickly. [02:36] Right, it did, because you see, Chris was from a very religious family. Both of his parents were pastors and like evangelical pastors at that. So when Chris ended up getting Sherry pregnant, they decided to get married right away. Right, right. So after Garrett was born, Gavin wasn't far behind. The family of four settled in Columbia, Illinois, which is just over the river from St. Louis, Missouri. [03:06] And when Chris left the military, he ended up getting a job with the Joyce Myers Ministry, who Britt... [03:12] I know you know who she is because we both grew up in this super evangelical, churchy, sometimes I call it a cult thing.

[03:24] But no one hold it against us. But Britt, like for everyone who might not know who Joyce Myers is, like, do you want to just give them a little bit of a rundown of who she is and what her ministry is? Sure. So Joyce Myers is one of the, if not the biggest like televangelists that's out there in like... [03:42] the evangelical world, if you didn't know this. [03:46] don't really enjoy women from the pulpit, so she was kind of controversial when she leapt onto the market in the probably late 80s, early 90s, and really, like, grew to fame. She... [03:56] She focuses on predominantly women's ministries, which makes sense, and a lot of strength and opportunity and maybe a little bit of health and wealth, but she's just a pillar in the televangelist community for evangelical Christians, definitely. And it makes sense that you pointed out that at the time, she wasn't really, I don't know if accepted is the word, but it was unusual to have a woman in this. [04:21] like, place of power. And she's also... [04:24] not like your typical [04:26] pastor's wife, if that makes sense. I have this picture in my mind, I guess, but she's kind of brash, and she kind of has a low, gravelly voice, and she tells it like it is, which was really appealing, because [04:39] It seemed really authentic. So Chris ended up working for Joyce Myers. I guess his family were like family friends of hers. I don't know if it was through church or what it was through, but he ends up getting a job as like the head of her security, making a pretty good living for his family with a salary of over $100,000 a year. And this is back in like 2007, 2008, 2009. So it was a nice life.

[05:04] until November of 2008, Chris started getting threatening emails in his inbox. And I'll read a couple of them to you because they're very unusual. And they come from an email called destroychris at gmail.com. And they started on Friday, November 14th of 2008. So the first email is titled Houston Death. [05:31] And it says, tell Chris his family is dead. I know his schedule and they will die. Next time, that mother f***er will let me talk to Joyce. Joyce. [05:41] On the same day, he continued to get more emails. And it was like this person knew that they were being ignored. They started copying more people. [05:51] And one of the ones that they sent out to everyone in the company said, I'm sure this will make it to somebody in the company. If you jackasses are like any other company, this will be someone's account. Pass this on to Chris. Tell Joyce to stop preaching that bull**** or Chris's family will die. If I cannot get to Joyce, then I will get to someone close to her. And if I can't get to him, then I will kill his wife and kids. I know Joyce's schedule, so then I know Chris's schedule. [06:21] the bullshit then they will die during the Houston conference I will kill them as they sleep if I don't hit there then I will kill during the book tour or the trip to India I know where he lives I know when they are alone fuck them and they all will die soon tell that mother next time to let me talk to Joyce she needs to hear what I have to say and now she will

[06:46] When no one replied to that one, they sent even another one that said, tell Chris his family is dead. They don't deserve to live with someone that protects the SOB Joyce. So the notes would go on to say that they basically knew when he was going to be gone. They knew when the family was alone and they were going to come after his family. And it wasn't new for someone to come after Joyce Myers. [07:16] A lot of people had a problem with that. [07:18] But [07:19] What's weird is that the death threats usually were to her and that's what wasn't new. But this was bizarre because none of these threats were aimed at Joyce at all. A couple of them mentioned wanting to talk to her. But even the email itself says it's called destroy Chris at Gmail. [07:38] None of them talk about wanting to do something to Joyce. All the violence is directed at Chris's family. In the past, Joyce's team had never had somebody targeted so specifically without making any threats to Joyce herself. So this was strange, but most of all, it was scary. And it got even scarier when in January of 2009, the emails stopped coming and notes started appearing in their mailbox. [08:08] stamped addressed notes, but notes that had been placed there, meaning that someone had to have come by their home in the dead of night and know where they live and put this in their mailbox.

[08:21] The first one that they got in their mailbox read, [08:25] F*** you. Deny your God publicly or else. No more opportunities. Time is running out for you and your family. Have a good time in India, mother f***er. So they get this note in January and they don't get another one until April 27th when Chris comes home from a trip and there is another threatening letter in his mailbox. And this one tells Chris to basically stop traveling, [08:55] and stealing people's money. And it tells him that, quote, your worst nightmare is about to happen. Now, Chris is the head of security for like a big company. So he had put up like a surveillance system and he had surveillance footage of the man dropping off the letter. And he watched it with his wife. But he said that he had just recently gotten the camera and there wasn't any way for him to actually download the footage and keep it anywhere. And he said when they watched it together, [09:25] recognize the person that dropped it off. [09:27] Now, luckily for the Coleman's, they actually lived on the same street as a detective sergeant. So he had been, they were kind of acquaintances and he had been keeping an eye out for everything that was going on, but he wasn't able to find the letter writer. So he decides to put up a camera. He actually borrows equipment from the state police so he can not only capture the video, but actually store it for future reference in case this guy were to come back.

[09:57] April 28th. So was Chris aware that the sergeant was putting up a camera? Oh yeah, they were actually trying to get this guy together, so he knew that the cameras were going up. So they go up on the 28th, and not a lot happens right away. The normal comings and goings of the Coleman's, of the neighbors, no sign of any strangers, no sign of any crazy like cars, no one making loops around. [10:21] It even captures Chris playing catch with his boys on May 4th. It's just the three of them seeming to be carefree in the front lawn, sharing a nice, like picture-perfect family moment. Little did the family know this would be the last moment that the boys would get to share with their father. [10:43] After playing baseball that evening, the youngest boy Garrett was invited to spend the night at his friend's house because it was his friend's birthday. And normally this wouldn't have been a problem, but on that night, Chris and Sherry didn't allow him to, but they promised him that the following Saturday they could have their sleepover. So the family all goes to bed, Garrett goes to his room, Gavin goes to his room, and Chris and Sherry go to their room together. [11:13] gym, which was a normal routine for him, and he leaves his house around 5.45 in the morning. After being at the gym for a while, he calls Sherry to try and wake her up, and this too, he said, was really normal because he would get her up and going, and then she would get the kids up, but he calls...

[11:30] And he calls. [11:31] And there's no answer. By 6.40, he was growing really concerned because Sherry should have been up by now. And those emails and those letters start to creep into the back of his mind and he becomes increasingly paranoid. Yeah, I'm sure. Right. So at 6.43, he decides to call that detective neighbor of his to see if he wouldn't mind going over and just checking on Sherry and the boys. [12:02] Something in his gut told him that the situation wasn't right. [12:06] Now this detective, whose name is Detective Barlow, gets up out of bed, he gets dressed, and he radios for backup. I mean, he was not messing around. He knew about the threats, and after all, he was the one that put the camera up. So even he was going over there to that home thinking he might find something awful. He was at the Coleman's front door by 6.51 with another officer. This is just minutes after Chris's call. And when they entered the home, [12:34] Detective Barlow said that the one thing he will never forget in his life is the overwhelming smell of spray paint. As they walked farther into the house, they saw that the walls were covered in this like Manson family type scrawl across the walls in red paint. It just read, fuck you, bitch, punished, fuck you, I'm always watching you.

[13:04] Thank you. [13:04] And as Detective Barlow climbs the stairs to the second floor, the wall leading up the stairs is lined with a message that makes his heart sink more than any other. It says, you have paid. [13:20] And he first goes to Garrett's room and that's where he sees the little boy. [13:25] dead in his own bed, [13:27] And his bed and him have been covered in more spray paint. By the time Chris had arrived back at the home, Detective Barlow could hear him downstairs asking what was going on. And so he went down to meet him and take him outside. And he had to be the one to tell him, his friend, his neighbor, that his family didn't make it. And Chris curled up in the fetal position and cried in the front lawn. [13:57] to leave with them and go back to the station for a formal interview. Meanwhile, there was a full army that descended on the crime scene. There were 25 seasoned cops, CSI with warrants to search everything in the home, computers, phones, like... [14:14] every single inch of the place. But even before the CSI people got there, Detective Barlow noticed some things that really stood out to him. Oh, God. Like what? Well, like the fact that the basement window was open. [14:31] It was weird. It was two things. It looked like maybe somebody had come in that way, but that window and a couple of others were unlocked, which if you have somebody leaving you threatening notes at your home, you think you would lock up your home before you go to bed, and especially before you're going to leave your wife and kids at home, right? Yeah, definitely. Well, also, when Chris had come home, Detective Barlow told him his family didn't make it,

[15:02] The cops in the scene thought they would have to try and like physically restrain him from going upstairs and trying to get to his family. But he didn't even try. He didn't want to know what happened or how they died or if the guy was still in the house when Detective Barlow came over. Nothing. Like he just got there and cried. Yeah, that's definitely strange. But... [15:22] We've said it before, you never know how you're going to react in the face of tragedy like this. Oh, totally. And these are just small, little red flags that are starting to pop up. [15:33] But as the detectives dig deeper and deeper into the Coleman's life, these red flags start to mean a lot more. [15:41] Now once they get to looking at the actual crime scene and the bodies themselves, all members of the family had been strangled to death. [15:49] very personal. And Sherry's death was particularly violent. You could tell that she had put up a fight because she had two black eyes. So this is what brings up another red flag. In Chris's interview, when they bring him into the station shortly after he gets there, he asks for a blanket because he's cold. And the detectives in the room, there were two of them, swear that it was warm in the room, but they get him a blanket anyways. And when they get him this blanket, the only place he [16:19] forearms where later we see that he has bruises and scratches that it seemed like he would have gotten in a struggle and seemed like he was trying to hide when they were in that very small room together. Now Chris says he got the scratches from being on his roof and taking down a satellite dish just the day before. So let's say for argument's sake that this is just really bad luck. We've

[16:49] and nothing goes in their favor. It wasn't Sherry's fighting back and her black eyes that were the most damning things about how their bodies were found. It was the fact that their bodies were cold, and rigor mortis was already starting to set in by the time police arrived, which means, according to the medical examiner, that they likely were murdered between 3 o'clock and 4 o'clock in the morning, which is well before Chris even left the house for the gym. When detectives are in the interrogation room with Chris, [17:19] hours and they actually start to kind of put their speculation out there to see how he'll react. And this is what he says. When you left the house this morning, was your wife alive? Oh yeah. What would you say if I told you that I don't think she was? [17:42] I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. I mean, I think she was. She was. She was laying [17:49] And I'm not doubting that. I'm not doubting that you were there and I'm not doubting that you care. But I am doubting that she was alive when you left this morning. Physically, what we have are different ways to tell how long a person's been deceased. That was done. And what do you think that showed?

[18:19] She was alive. She was. She was laying right beside me. Listen to me. We can go back and forth with this all day long, but the physical evidence doesn't lie. She was not alive when you left this morning. The children weren't alive when you left this morning. Yes, they were. No, come on, Chris. We gotta get over this. Now, there's reasons. There's reasons. And that's the point we're at. I want to hear the reasons. Yeah, I'm stuck on that, too. What? [18:46] What on earth would be the reason for killing his whole family? Well, that's what they really start to probe on. The detectives ask him if he's had any trouble in his marriage. And Chris says, nothing that unusual. Most of their problems stemmed around communication. And yes, the D word had come up before and they'd thrown it around. But they were going to counseling and they were working through it. And their marriage was awesome and better. We kind of talked about the divorce a little bit. This last December. Yeah. And I went to Joyce with it. [19:16] Told her about it, or Damien, I can't remember which one. And they knew about it. They suggested that we meet with somebody and see if we could work out whatever it was. And really all it was was just communication. Not communicating very well. Did you meet with somebody? Yeah, Mike Shepard, the guy that's here downstairs in the lobby. And we've been meeting with him pretty regularly, and things have been going pretty awesome. So according to Chris, like from his own mouth, their marriage was awesome. [19:46] really well but this was not the detective's first rodeo and they asked so to be clear like no one was having an affair did you have any inappropriate relationships with anyone and Chris is like nah we were great but I do have this female friend that I talked to a lot named Tara that you might want to talk to um what uh yeah what is right so Chris basically says I have this great friend and

[20:16] And we talk all the time. And the cops are like, well, was it inappropriate? And he's like, maybe some of them I wouldn't have wanted my wife to see, but I wouldn't call it an affair. We were just very, very close. Well, as they're continuing to talk to Chris throughout the day, the police call the police in Florida. Now, remember, they're in Illinois. And they asked them to do a quick interview of Tara because that's where she lived. And just make sure, like, everything's on the up and up. There's nothing fishy happening there. [20:46] minute interview head on her way but she says as soon as tara opened her mouth she knew there was so much more to this story [20:56] You guys, we are finally rolling into summer, and I am ditching the sweaters, packing away the coats, but I am still wearing quince. Because quince is quality I wear all year round, in the field, on stage, at the office, quince, quince, quince. Their clothing and accessories are timeless and long-lasting because they focus on high-quality, beautiful everyday essentials, like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. [21:26] 80% less than similar brands. No lie, I have a silk skirt from a big department store and I have a silk skirt from Quince. And dead serious, my Quince one has held up way better and was way cheaper and machine washable because ain't nobody got time or money for dry cleaning, but I want to look like I do.

[21:56] Crime Junkie for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash Crime Junkie. [22:03] When Tara started talking, it was quickly evident that they were so much more than friends. Tara tells the investigators that she and Chris had become romantically involved, and they had been in a relationship since like November, December. And anytime he would travel with Joyce Myers, he would fly her out to whatever city they were in so that they could be together. [22:33] and he was going to bed alone in another room or on the couch. And according to Tara, they had exchanged promise rings and even had a date set for their own wedding. That's bold. Very bold. Especially when you have another wife and kids that you're not even divorced from. So Tara turns over her BlackBerry and her computer to police and it was filled with files and emails and pictures of her and Chris [23:03] pictures of just Chris or her and Chris that they had like sent to each other. And in total, there were several hundred images that were explicit and depict some form of nudity with one or both of them. Now remember, they had a warrant for Chris's laptop and cell phone as well. And they find a ton of these same images and even more. He even had videos of them together in one

[23:33] very compromising conditions. Now, even though it's clear Chris is lying about the affair, [23:40] lying about when his family was killed, they still don't have enough to arrest him. So after six hours of interviewing and of him giving a DNA sample and him giving a writing sample, Chris is released. But that was just the beginning of the investigation. As they begin to dig deeper into Chris's computer, recovering deleted files, they find the most incriminating thing wasn't the racy pictures. [24:05] It was the fact... [24:07] that every one of those threatening emails from November... [24:11] had come from Chris's own computer. And this explains why after the notes started showing up in his mailbox and the neighbor put up the camera, no one was ever seen lurking around the neighborhood. There was never anyone else, and it was Chris all along. [24:30] Again, the deeper they looked, the more answers they found as to why this all started in the first place. On November 4th of 2008, there were some writings from Chris on his computer. He talks about how that day was the day that changed his life forever, how he had exchanged promise rings on this day with Tara. And he had even wrote down the name of their future child. If they were to have a girl, they were going to name her Zoe. [25:00] Just nine days later is when those threatening emails start to begin. And this is the definition of premeditation. For months, he knew he was going to kill his family. He set up an elaborate lie about this crazed stalker to try and frame a fictional person. But there were too many holes in his story and he was easily found out.

[25:26] There were other pieces of evidence that they used to build a circumstantial trial against Chris as well. There were text messages from Sherry that she had sent to a friend saying that Chris wanted a divorce, and he had told her that her and the boys were standing in the way of his happiness and his job. But Sherry refused to leave, and she was fighting for her marriage, and this would end up costing her her life. [25:50] It only takes one person to file for divorce. You don't have to kill your family just to get out to be with someone else. Oh, by the way, not just someone else, something I didn't mention earlier is that Tara was actually Sherry's best friend from high school. [26:07] Oh, that changes things. Yeah, but I mean, to your point, you still, even if you're going to betray your wife... [26:15] and be with somebody else who was her friend. You don't [26:18] I don't understand how your sons play into that. The next logical step is killing everybody. Exactly. It doesn't make sense. To go back to your original question, divorce wasn't an option for Chris because of his job. Basically, what the investigators thought and what the prosecution would later put forward is that he knew when working for Joyce Meyer's ministry that in that evangelical Christian world, he would lose his job if he got divorced. And especially if he left his wife for another woman. [26:48] job if she had left him, but that was clearly not an option because Sherry did not want to leave. [26:54] She was not willing to file for divorce, and she wanted to keep working on it. So if he wanted to keep his job,

[26:59] and he wanted to get rid of Sherry in a way that would get him sympathy and not make him look like the bad guy, then the only way would... [27:08] be for her to like die in a tragic way. So this is probably when he starts plotting this whole scenario in his head. Now the investigators got one more piece of evidence in their back pocket before they were ready to charge Chris with his family's murder. They were able to match the [27:27] from the messages left on the walls in spray paint. And they found a receipt for that red spray paint that Chris had bought just a couple of months earlier. When they first brought him in for that first interrogation, he said he didn't have any spray paint in the house and that if he did, it would be very, very old. So this is just another lie. [27:48] So they were able to match the handwriting in the spray paint and his handwriting sample? Yes, that's what the prosecution and the detectives say. We did a Patreon episode on the Rebecca Sahau case, and they were trying to determine if... [28:02] quote, writing on the wall was hers or not. And there was like this big, long argument and ended up getting thrown out, I think, because... [28:09] Writing on a vertical surface versus a horizontal surface isn't a fair comparison. Right. And even like the size of the writing, writing on a piece of paper is so different. At least they said in the Rebecca the Howe case, so different than if you were to actually like spray paint a wall. And that was such an interesting case because, I mean, she was found hanging from a balcony with like her hands tied behind her legs. They thought maybe she wrote this note. Maybe they didn't. And they got an expert to say basically that, you know,

[28:36] You can't make the comparison and it's inconclusive. And I think that kind of plays into this because we've said this before, when it comes to expert testimony at a trial, you want to believe these experts are impartial. But a lot of the times people will go shopping for experts and they will look for somebody who wants to tell them exactly what they want to hear. So... [28:58] While they use this in trial, I wouldn't 100% hang my hat on it. So with all of this, they finally have enough to charge him and put him on trial for the premeditated murder of his wife and his two young boys. [29:11] They make the jury watch blurred videos of him and Tara naked in Hawaii, him joking around about how they were being so bad, and they make them listen to a video of them in the shower with Chris saying that he's doing something that he's never done with any other woman, but they wouldn't actually show the video because it was so provocative. And they show pictures, they bring up the handwriting sample, they talk about the bodies and how they were likely dead hours before he even left the house, [29:41] was written from that computer, all of those threatening emails, the email address had originated on that computer, and they kept hammering at the motive that he couldn't leave his wife for another woman without losing his job, so he had to get rid of his wife and his kids. The threats start after Tara, quote, changed his life, and they also showed that Chris had told Tara he was giving his wife divorce papers on May 5th, the same morning that they were murdered.

[30:11] Thank you. [30:11] But he'd never visited a lawyer, he'd never had any papers drawn up, [30:17] And his plan was likely to kill them all along. Which this is very reminiscent for me of the Scott Peterson trial, where if you remember, Scott Peterson told Amber, like, this is the first Christmas I'm going to spend without my wife. And then she ends up going missing. And now this guy, Chris, is telling Tara, I'm delivering her divorce papers that he knew he'd never drawn up and he wasn't going to deliver on May 5th. [30:43] and she ends up dead on May 5th. [30:45] Now, Chris's defense wasn't super strong. I couldn't find any actual trial transcripts, but... [30:52] You'll learn later that he believes his defense didn't do a great job. Apparently, there were some other medical examiners who said, listen, time of death isn't an exact science. You kind of have to use this range. And that person said that it's possible that his family died at 547. I'm sorry, and he left at 543? [31:13] that seems... [31:13] a little bit outlandish. Yeah, that's like four minutes. So I agree. But again, I don't think they actually ever brought this up in trial. I think most of the stuff that they were hammering on was him saying that, oh, I was planning on leaving Tara. My marriage wasn't so bad. I wouldn't have gotten fired if I got a divorce. They really hammered it on the motive and not so much on refuting all of the science. [31:38] We're all online so much, it's easy to forget about a purchase that you made even two days ago. And I don't know about you, but me and my husband sometimes will purchase like the same subscription and we've got it twice. But that doesn't need to happen with Rocket Money because Rocket Money helps monitor your spending like a personal assistant for your wallet. Beyond stopping money leaks, the app consolidates all your accounts into a single dashboard. You can get personalized insights, reports and custom real time alerts to stay on top of your budgeting goals.

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[33:41] ixl.com slash crimejunkie. Visit ixl.com slash crimejunkie to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. [33:51] During the trial, he also said that someone else could have used his computer. But there was a video testimony from Joyce Myers who even testified that in all the time that she spent with him, she had never seen anyone else use his computer. There was really nothing working in his favor for this trial. But here's the crazy part. [34:20] beyond a reasonable doubt. So when they took their initial vote, it was five to seven in favor of acquittal. Whoa. I know. [34:30] but they did another look through all of the evidence and there was one picture that actually changed their mind and it wasn't a particularly vulgar one just a picture of Tara and Chris together like smiling or kissing or something but on the back of [34:46] was the date. There was like this thumbnail timestamp of when it was taken. And it was taken on October 21st of 2008. Now, all through the trial, Chris insisted that the affair started in November or December. So to the jurors, this was concrete proof that he was lying. And they said, you know, we all felt like if he could lie about this, then he can lie about everything else. So

[35:16] They all voted again and found him guilty on May 5th, 2011, [35:23] two years to the day. No. To the day after his family was murdered. Oh, full body chills. Justice. Thank you. Well, maybe justice. So Chris is now appealing his conviction and his appeal just got released in April of 2018. And I got the opportunity to read through it all the way. And there's really four points that he's appealing on. And the first one is that picture. So he's [35:53] He said that the thumbnail timestamps were actually not submitted as a part of evidence, just the pictures were. So there was no opportunity to bring up the timestamp or the date stamp and refute it. So he said the jury should not have considered that. Well, right, because you can only bring up stuff that was brought up in trial. Right. [36:12] But what else was there? The second point he brings up is he said he had ineffective assistance of counsel. And he brings up a couple of points for this. He said the first thing that shows he had ineffective assistance of counsel was the failure for them to object to not letting those thumbnails with the time stamp and the date stamp in them. The second point, he says, is his lawyer failed to introduce any evidence which would contradict the theory of motive. [36:38] And he said that there were a couple of points that the CEO of Joyce Meyer's ministry was a divorced person. So... [36:44] Why on earth would he not be able to get divorced if that was the motive that he would lose his job when the CEO of the company is divorced? The second point he makes is he said at the end of the day, when he found out his family had been murdered, he actually resigned from Joyce Meyer's ministry. And so, again, if the motive is that he didn't want to lose his job, he gave up his job because he lost his family. The third reason he says that he deserves an appeal in a new trial was the failure to introduce fingerprints and shoe prints into evidence.

[37:14] So apparently... [37:16] there were some unknown footprints, unknown fingerprints, maybe some unknown DNA at the scene that was never brought up. And his lawyer didn't bring it up in trial. And he said he knew about it all the time. And it was like a strategic move on his lawyer's part. But looking back, he said it doesn't make any sense. Now, during the initial trial, part of the state's theory is there was this window in his basement that was open. And they say that Chris tried to stage this break-in by opening the window. [37:46] There were fingerprints and a palm print found on that window on the outside that didn't match Chris. There were also shoe prints underneath the window that didn't match any of the shoes that Chris had turned over. Now, the appeal doesn't say anything about it being the wrong size, but... [38:05] So what I'm very interested in is, okay, but it could also be you just didn't give them the shoes that you wore or is it actually somebody who doesn't match you? [38:15] The final point that he makes in this appeal is the failure to confront or offer a rebuttal to the expert concerning DNA. Now, Sherry had some DNA under her fingernails, and the experts who testified said that Chris and the sons could not be ruled out as a match because there was like a partial sample. And he said all the stuff that they've learned about this in the last nine or so years, a partial sample isn't a full sample. And he said if it would have been explained to the jury...

[38:45] Initially, they would have understood that it was much more likely, or at least as likely, that it could have been someone else and not necessarily Chris. [38:54] So, [38:55] He has this appeal out. Lord knows how long it's going to take to go through an appeal. The court system takes super long. I think he brings up some interesting points. I don't know that it changes... [39:06] My mind? I mean, he makes some good points in the appeal, but... [39:11] stepping back and looking at [39:12] the spray paint purchases. [39:14] the shady mistress. Like it's just staging all those emails. It just seems like all signs point to him. It's, I totally agree. Like in my gut, I have way more of a gut feeling he did it than even I had about Scott Peterson. But I, I don't know if that's because there's so much more out about Scott Peterson, but I don't know. Everything he did was so fishy. The emails being on your computer is something that I cannot get over. [39:43] at all, ever. And the fact that, like, the notes started showing up at your house, but no one was ever caught on camera. Yeah. [39:49] I just... [39:50] What I would love is... So in my gut, I think he did it. But I don't know if you knew. Undisclosed just started a Patreon. So go them. Everyone should go support them. I obviously signed up. What they're doing for Patreon is they're actually taking other podcasts that they listen to and other episodes of people who are going through... [40:09] some kind of court process, and they look at it from like a lawyer's point of view. And I know Rabia listens to our show, so I would love if Undisclosed actually covered this case. Not so much did he do it, but does he actually have a shot

[40:22] at an appeal from what he's going at because [40:25] I am [40:26] like a little terrified that maybe he makes some good points. That'd be so awesome. And Chris isn't alone in his fight. His parents believe him blindly. [40:35] And their interviews actually that I watched were [40:38] painful because it was almost like they were blaming Sherry for everything that happened. In there was like one part of this little snippet where his mom remembers the first time that he brought her home and she's like, man, she wasn't anything special. Like, you don't say that. [40:55] about the mother of your grandchildren who's been murdered [41:00] And then, are you ready to flip out? [41:02] Ugh, I don't know. Okay, so his parents are asked, well, if you think he didn't do it because it's just not in his character, which is just their argument the whole time, it's not in his character, what do you think about the affair? [41:16] It was really deceitful. And as pastors, do you agree with him cheating on his wife? Like if he can be so deceitful and lie and like that's in his character. [41:25] Couldn't this other thing be... [41:28] And his dad, basically, not even basically, he comes out and he says, Tara was meeting needs that Sherry wasn't taking care of. And he says, as a man... [41:40] As a man, you have desires and you have the need to be respected. And if your wife isn't respecting you, you're going to find that respect somewhere else. And Sherry wasn't doing her job as a wife.

[41:55] Wow. [41:56] I am actually speechless. I, like, my face got hot when he started talking. And of course they, like, don't show his wife while he's, like, saying all this, but... [42:07] He's basically saying that [42:10] his wife wasn't meeting his sexual needs and wasn't obeying him or whatever he believes a wife should do. So in his mind, yeah, it's totally fine that he was running around with this other woman. It's justifiable, yeah. [42:23] So deep breaths. They're totally behind him. They have, there's a Facebook group. There's like 300 people in it. There's a website where he, actually he still blogs. It's like a whole thing. [42:34] Wild. [42:35] And there was something else that I found interesting, but I really don't even know where to fit it in because it probably means nothing. [42:42] But there was a naked picture... [42:45] of Tara found on Chris's dad's computer. [42:49] Oh... [42:51] Which I don't love. That's weird. [42:54] Right? So along with his blind parents, I will say there's one other like crazy out of left field theory. A person who thinks he's innocent is an old Montana cop that's retired. He's also an author who thinks that a serial killer has murdered Chris's family. And listen, I love far out theories, but this one is just a little bit too much. This guy wrote a book called It's Me, Edward Edwards, The Serial Killer You've Never Heard of. [43:24] heard of that book.

[43:25] I have too. [43:27] It is like the kookiest. So this guy believes that Edward Edwards is a killer, a serial killer that has been killing since the 40s through the 90s. And he thinks he's responsible for... [43:43] He's like the answer to everything. So he thinks he killed JonBenet. He thinks he killed the Black Dahlia. He thinks he's the Atlanta child murderer. The abduction of Adam Walsh. He thinks he's the Zodiac killer. I say he'll probably have to update it because I'm sure he thought he was the Golden State killer too. Yeah. So, I mean, he thinks this guy is everybody, which is like, that's like a nice easy fix. It would be nice to say like, oh, all these unsolved murderers are the responsibility of this one crazy guy. But I think it's a little unlikely. Yeah. Yeah. [44:13] book is, from what I've heard, not very reputable. Thank you. [44:16] Right. [44:18] He is like on team Chris is innocent. Like I said, Chris runs a blog, which is kind of interesting to read. Most of it is him like trying to have some kind of ministry through prison, him reaching out to people. What I found interesting is I read through the blog post and it's not super old. It just started in 2017. But there's barely any talk of his wife and his sons or even really his case. [44:48] how I miss them and I love them and there's... Or like rising up through tragedy. Yeah. Garrett is mentioned one time and Gavin is mentioned twice out of all of the posts.

[44:59] It's just very, very bizarre. So this is one that I will kind of keep an eye on and see what happens with his appeal. That process takes a long time. But I encourage everyone else to set up a Google Alert as well. And we actually have like there's mad amount of evidence in this case. So if you want to go to our blog, CrimeJunkiePodcast.com or check us out on Instagram, Crime Junkie Pod. We have pictures of like the writing on the wall. [45:29] that he was sending as this fake person. So tons and tons of evidence to check out in this case, which is a little bit more, like it's kind of unusual, but way more than we get in other cases. So definitely go check that out. And Britt, if people want to tweet at us their theories, did he, didn't he, how can they get us on Twitter? Yeah. [45:45] You can follow us on Twitter at Crime Junkie Pod and on Instagram at Crime Junkie Podcast. And if you want more content, you can always get at us at Patreon. We mentioned one of our bonus episodes in this show. We did a mini on the murder or suicide, depending on how you look at it, of Rebecca Zahau. That's at the $20 level, but we have extra episodes at $5, at $10. Just crazy amounts of content now. Patreon.com slash Crime Junkie. And we will see you next week. [46:12] for a brand new episode.

[46:41] Okay, crime junkies, you know I absolutely love a twist and a turn, especially when it comes to people who turn out to be someone they're not. That's why I have been obsessed with the podcast Chameleon. Every Thursday, host Josh Dean deep dives into a scam so bizarre, it will leave you wondering, how did they get away with that? [47:00] It is truly one of my favorite podcasts right now and I've been listening for years. [47:03] I think you'll love it too. [47:05] Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.