Ina Garten

[00:00] This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking your pockets before putting clothes in the washer? [00:09] Oof. Enjoy your freshly cleaned and completely destroyed earbuds. Yeah, checking first is a good plan. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. [00:29] Well, hello, everyone. I'm very excited for this episode of Good Hang. I'm Amy Poehler, and joining me today is Ina Garten. Ina is just a delight, and we are going to talk about so many fun things. We're going to talk about her TV show podcast, Be My Guest. We're going to talk about the best way to cook carrots. We're going to talk about enriched uranium. [00:59] the best gift I've received yet and the first gift I've received. So I can't wait to show you that. But before we get started, we always like to talk to somebody who knows our guests and has a question for them. And we have a real humdinger on this one. I mean, just a... [01:16] Comedic genius, everybody's fave. I mean, what hasn't she done? Emmys. [01:22] TV, movies, just a social activist. She's in her garden. She's protecting herself from the sun. She's wearing a giant hat. Her name is Julia Louis-Dreyfus. JLD.

[01:41] This episode is presented to you by Walmart. I'd like to say that I'm a pretty good gift giver. And for me, it's about making the extra effort to find the perfect gift. [01:52] place. Nespresso, Nintendo, Apple, you name it. That's why it has to be Walmart for all my gifts this year. Guest Best Gift Giver Award goes to yours truly. Get the brands everyone loves at prices you'll love at Walmart. Who knew? Go to walmart.com or download the app to get all your gifts this season. Your hat looks great. [02:22] Ha ha ha. [02:24] I don't know what else to do. I mean, look, at this point, we should hats, whatever, scarves, whatever. Yes, scarves, hats. Oh, my God. You're the best for getting on and doing this. Hi, friend. Hi, my friend. I'm so happy to see you. I'm so happy to see you, too. And I was just thinking about the last time we saw each other, which was getting our hair colored. Yeah, at the salon. [02:53] At the salon. [02:54] Where all the ladies go to meet. Are you in California or? I'm in California. I'm in Santa Barbara, California. [03:01] Hence this hat. It is a very California hat. [03:05] It is actually, but I do. In fact, this isn't bullshit. I actually do wear this hat all the time because I'm,

[03:13] Conscious of getting too much sun. You know what? I was just saying, I was just telling someone that my dermatologist told me like, [03:20] No more sun. You're done with sun. The end, period. Yeah. And are you listening to your dermatologist? I'm finally, sadly, I've known this for many years, but I need to talk to you about... [03:32] and all the women listening about full sun shirts. I know everything. I can't wait. [03:39] I knew you would. I knew you would. I have so much information for you. First of all, get this hat. Number one. [03:48] I knew you would, and I so appreciate it because, first of all, [03:51] Babe, you look... [03:52] Incredible. [03:54] Nobody looks better than JLD. Thank you, and all the filters that are on this computer, thank you as well. At one point, you should do that Zoom thing where you put sunglasses on yourself, and then you turn into a cat, and then the background turns into a beach. I wish I knew how to do that. [04:12] Well, we're talking to Ina Garten today. Lucky you. And you know what? Before I even get into that, congratulations on your podcast. Yes. [04:20] And congratulations on your podcast. Thank you. Just two ladies having a podcast. Welcome to showbiz. Where did you first meet Ina? [04:36] On the podcast. Wow. You became friends after the pod? Correct. [04:42] Like real proper friends.

[04:44] Oh, cool. How did that happen? [04:48] I don't know. I just feel like she's, [04:50] Have you ever met her? No. [04:52] Never met her. [04:53] Oh, well, you're going to just have the best conversation because she's as... [04:57] She's exactly what you think. She's completely authentic. She's [05:02] Very kind. She's obviously very intelligent. She's hilarious. She's just got a great attitude. She's incredibly cheerful. FYI, that's a question you need to ask her. Okay. [05:15] Why are you so cheerful? And say it that aggressively. I actually mean that. I don't mean it sarcastically, although it sounded it. But I mean, like, seriously, why are you so cheerful? And also what puts you in a bad mood? [05:29] I'd like to know what really puts Ina in a bad mood. It's so interesting you say that because like in doing research on her and, you know, like she has this. [05:38] Uh, [05:39] you know, [05:42] She talks about it in her book, like a decision she makes to decide... [05:47] to enjoy life. [05:50] She just like kind of, you know, a lot of it is meeting Jeffrey. [05:53] A lot. Yeah. And him saying, you know, I'm going to give you a safe container in which to decide, you know, what kind of life you want to live. And we're going to find joy in our lives. But she really seems like she's the kind of person that made a decision and makes a decision every day. Yeah, I think she does. She's very intentional that way. And she's a hard worker. I mean, she's I don't know if she'd call herself a workaholic, but she works.

[06:19] works hard. She likes to work. Mm-hmm. [06:22] And, uh, [06:24] And that's reflected in the work that [06:27] She does. And speaking of which, [06:29] This is, I have another question. [06:32] question for her that I'd like you to ask her. Yes, please. And then call me afterwards. About sun protection? No, no. Yes. Sun protection for sure. Definitely call me. Okay. You're getting fat, you're wearing it all day long, you're sleeping in it. But I'm in my kitchen. And the reason I'm in my kitchen is because it's a cooking question. And also, I just want to point out for people who are listening, but not watching, a gorgeous bowl of lemons behind you. Oh, just a [07:02] was a lemon dish. Ooh. Yes. And I made a lemon sorbet, which I'm going to show you. Brag. [07:11] And... [07:12] We're going into Julia's refrigerator right now. She made a sorbet in a lemon. Okay, so listeners, this is a gorgeous sorbet that is in a lemon. In a lemon. Rind? Is it peel? Lemon case? It's in the, shall we say, the casing? The lemon cup. She took the casing of a lemon. Okay, she made the sorbet, and then she scooped out the lemon, and she put it back in. So now the lemon serves as a dish. [07:42] Correct. And so the sorbet is delicious. Looks incredible. I made it with [07:47] Lemon, water, and sugar. And lemon zest. Okay.

[07:53] But here's the issue. It's very icy and it's not creamy. Ah, I see. [08:00] So the question, I don't know if you cook, Amy. I do. I love to cook and I want to talk to Ina about it because I was late to cooking. Very late. Well, by the way, all of her books are good for you because they're so... [08:13] easy, it's not crazy complicated and delicious. [08:17] Delicious recipes. But anyway, I need to know what to add to this. I'm guessing it's some sort of a binder of some sort that I can add to this to give it more of a. [08:29] creamier, [08:30] Sorbet texture versus what I've got, which, by the way, is totally delicious. But you can see it sort of it sort of breaks off. I find ice cream and sorbet to be very hard to make, very hard to make well. [08:46] Thank you. [08:47] I got news for you. This is delicious. Maybe don't ask for anything. Yeah, maybe it's perfect. [08:54] But I would like to know, I really would. Okay, so I'm going to ask her about the sorbet. I'm going to ask her about her positive attitude. And I will just say, and this is an obvious question, but now that you are friends, you're going to ask her about the sorbet. [09:05] And you hang out. Have you and Brad gone to dinner with Ina and Jeffrey? Yes. [09:10] Well. [09:10] Great. And two very successful long marriages. [09:16] Both of you. You know how I feel about you and your husband, Brad Hall. Truly couple goals, both of you. Oh, that's so nice. You know, there's not always a lot of couples that you want to hang with. That's true. It's true. It's usually one or the other. Yeah, it's true. We have dinner plans tonight with a couple. And let's just say I'm thinking of a way right now to get out of it. Yeah. Yeah, you could just say you were wearing a hat.

[09:46] I got a headache. Got too tight. I ate too much sorbet. I'm sick. Got it. That'll work. Okay. So I'm going to ask Ina about, [09:56] her attitude, sorbet, and what puts her in a bad mood. I'd really like to know what puts her in a bad mood. I hope she'll answer honest. I know. I wonder. I mean, truly, what is so interesting about her is – [10:11] Her success came late in life. Yeah. [10:15] I know. [10:15] FYI, [10:17] She worked in the White House. [10:20] In... [10:21] Nuclear energy, as I recall, [10:24] Dang! [10:25] What a life indeed. So I end for talking to her and tell her I said hi. I will. [10:31] Call me later and I'll give you a bunch of sunscreen tips, including clothing. I know. And products for your face. I've got to get the whole thing. I've got good sunscreen that doesn't turn your face white, too. Okay. I always use sunscreen, but I think I'm at a point now where I have to wear the full shirt, which... [10:50] I know, God. You know, it's just like, it feels like everything fun is taken away. [11:00] That's the attitude, Amy. Except for sorbet. Wait, tell Ina that. Tell her that. [11:08] Help me get out of this funk if you can. Do you ever feel like everything fun is taken away? Anyway, Julia's having some trouble with her sorbet and the creaminess of it.

[11:20] All right. Thank you for jumping on. I really appreciate it. And will you come do this someday when you're not doing yours? I know you're so busy, but come. I would love to. Absolutely love to. Because you are, in fact, a good hang. Thank you. So are you, friend. And I think about. [11:37] our times together a lot and always want more of them. So let's make it happen. [11:41] Done and done. So I brought you a little present. I shopped all over the world for it. I went to Hermes. I went to all the fabulous stores. And I chose something I thought you might like. Ina! Listeners, Ina's giving me a beautiful green bag. This is some ASMR, some crinkle ASMR. [12:02] Oh my goodness! Oh! [12:04] Did I guess right? I'm getting chills. Okay. No, it's not a diamond necklace. This is so incredible. Jenna, do you know what this is? [12:21] I'm going to buy a fake roast chicken. [12:27] Just to add to your collection. [12:29] I'm actually, my heart is pounding. My heart is pounding. First of all, there's so many things I love about this. Thank you. I love this. I really, I was going to cry. I like that it is the same size as a roast chicken. It's not a fake fake. It's a real fake. I like the glistening. There's some kind of fake. I like that his little legs are tied together.

[12:59] chicken with fennel. Oh, good? Yes, it's my favorite recipe. And you talk about tucking the wings and tying here and putting the lemons inside. And the weight of it, listeners, you can't feel it, but it's got a good weight, but not too... Like if you dropped it on your toe, you wouldn't break it. [13:18] I know, that is the nice... As you've heard, I love fake food. I've gotten that idea here. And I know I should probably put it in the back, but I also want to keep it close. Oh, I love it. Okay, I'll put it in the back. [13:29] Thank you so much. A lovely gift. And now everyone who sees it will know that it came from you. I mean, your roast chicken, we have a lot to talk about today. Okay. But I'm sure you've heard this from many people, but what you, you are like a translator. [13:46] So, [13:47] You take what... [13:49] you've learned and what you know, and you make people understand it. And it's a rare skill. Oh, thank you. That's wonderful. I just, this roast chicken, even though it's fake, is making me think about the fact that you taught me how to make a roast chicken, which, and what is bigger than that and deeper than that is... It's not about the chicken. It's about when you cook, everybody shows up, and then you create a community around yourself. And I didn't know that until I started writing cookbooks. But it's [14:19] that we all need to feel like we're part of something and that [14:22] We take care of people. They take care of us. And a roast chicken is the most basic thing. I don't think there's a culture in the world that doesn't have some kind of roast chicken. So people start podcasts sometimes to check mics, and they say, what did you eat for breakfast? What did you eat for breakfast is the question that a lot of people ask when they're starting a podcast. I know, what did you have for breakfast this morning? I have the same thing I always have. And I go for years with one breakfast, and then I switch and I go for years with another breakfast.

[14:52] I always have whole grain toast with really good butter. I love French butter and coffee. [14:59] And that's breakfast. Coffee drinker. How do you take your coffee? With milk. And tea drinker at all? I start drinking tea around 1030. Like not at 1029, not 1031, but at 1030, my brain goes, tea. And no more coffee the rest of the day. Probably not. Yeah. That's smart. I was telling a lot of my friends. I have a lot of young friends who talk about how they can't sleep. And when you check out their coffee intake, they're having coffee. It's crazy. It's crazy. But I brought something else with me, too. [15:29] Well, we're on that subject of breakfast. You brought something else. And I think Jenna might have it right here. I know. If we play our cards right. Wait, Ina's giving me more things. I'm overwhelmed. Well, I thought we have to have a party here. Ina, I know you do know how to throw a party. We love a good party. Oh, my gosh. So they had fabulous strawberries at Eataly downstairs. Ina's pulling out some strawberries. And they're from Harry's Berries in, I think it's in the Northwest. [15:59] California, too. It's just the best. And I thought we have to have something to drink with. So we get a nice chilled Torseco. [16:07] This could be breakfast. [16:10] I want you to know I barely drink anymore, so I'm a real lightweight. Oh, I'm worse. I'm totally worse. I always say I spend so much more time talking about drinking than I do actually drinking. If I have a half a glass of that, I'm going to really start sparing some secrets. There's going to be some tears. I think I might have to fill your glass.

[16:30] First getting it open is not so easy. I used to be in the food service industry. Oh, you were so on. I'd be happy to open it for you because. I think you're going to be the one to do this. Okay, because I used to open a lot of. Wait, why are you flinching, Jenna? I know how to open. The key is turn the bottle, not the cork, right? Exactly. And also you want to do the thing where you talk about something else while you're doing it. So nobody's distracted. Oh, very good idea. [16:59] And you're just saying, so just a couple of things about the specials tonight. We have a gorgeous fake roast chicken. [17:07] That is really delicious. And we have... Well done, like a pro. Whoa. [17:15] Oh, my God. May I pour? Yes, please. Thank you so much. Okay, we're pouring champagne. Very little for me. This is the most fun I've ever... Podcasts are great, guys. All you do is you get presents, and then you have champagne. [17:29] with Ina and strawberries. Cheers! Isn't this very pretty woman? Champagne and strawberries? Cheers. This is how we imagined our life. Cheers. Cut to me immediately crying. [17:44] Okay, wow, and these strawberries look amazing. You know, [17:47] I'm going to say something a little controversial. There's going to be a lot of controversy in this podcast. [17:52] fruit fruit you don't like fruit i like it but i'll take a vegetable over fruit i'll take vegetables over fruit but fruit that is picked before you eat it that's that tastes like fruit the problem is a lot of things here have been picked like six months ago yeah and they're shipped somewhere they're not it's it's not like going to a farm stand and buying when you go to

[18:22] they say, no, you want these pairs, and do you want to eat it today or tomorrow? [18:27] and they're choosing it by how ripe it is. So it's going to be perfect today or perfect tomorrow. The problem is we're eating fruit out of season. I mean, the strawberries are in season. We're eating fruit that's not ripened on the vine. It's been ripened by sitting around, which doesn't ripen it. It just ages it. So the thing about good strawberries, it's just like strawberry jam. You don't need to do anything with it. And I know this is kind of a Sophie's choice, but if you had to go between sweet and salty, what would be your choice? [18:57] person? Um... [18:59] Probably savory. Me too. That's what I'm saying. So fruit sometimes is a little like I'd rather have a cheese than a fruit. Oh, I'm with you there. Okay. Cheese and bread. I'm going to forget it. Cheese and bread, Desert Island, you and I are good. [19:13] When you grew up in Brooklyn, what did you eat growing up? Your mother was a dietician. Yeah. Did you have – did that – what were you eating at home and what did you eat growing up? She was very extreme in what she served. [19:29] and nothing else. I mean, there were no, there were no, there wasn't bread. There wasn't French fries. There wasn't, there wasn't, I mean, literally no carbs. So I was like starving when I was a kid. There were no cookies and milk when you got home from school. If I asked her for something for, if I got home and I was hungry, she'd go, oh, just eat an apple. I mean, nobody wants an apple after school. No, especially since they've just given one to a teacher and associated

[19:59] But it's interesting because, you know, when you grew up and after, there was a, I mean, there still is, of course, this crazy diet culture. But there was this, like, weird fear about food. And the fear shifts all the time. Sometimes we're afraid of carbs. Then we're afraid of fats. Then we're afraid of, like, and you've witnessed the trends that people come and go and they decide what we're supposed to be afraid of. And I remember growing up, grew up in the 70s. [20:27] There was just a lot of... [20:30] misinformation about food. It was just, we just didn't know what we didn't know, I guess. I mean, at the end of the day, I think the more you cook and choose simple things to cook, and the less you eat processed foods, that's really all you need to know. I know. And if you eat a balanced diet, you feel better. I know. It doesn't mean you're living on carbs or there are no carbs. It's balanced. And if you want to be healthier, then eat a little more vegetables and a little less protein and carbs. But I mean, [21:00] Food was not something discussed in the 70s. [21:04] The 70s was about gadgets and shortcuts, right? Because women were going back to work and it was very much like, hey, you don't have to make the meal. Make... [21:14] make stuff in your microwave instead. And there was, I remember, I'll speak on behalf of my mom, a freedom in things being faster and easier and kids being able to do it and all that kind of stuff. Did you cook when you were a kid? No. Because you didn't start cooking until you were like 40, right? Right. So what changed? So I...

[21:32] I really believed up and kind of what I, what I was saying to you earlier, I really believed that I just was the kind of person that, [21:40] I was like, I just don't think I'm the kind of person that cooks. And I would save myself. You're not the kind of person who can cook or wants to cook? I think a little bit of both. I think it was like, I don't really know enough dishes. And maybe it's something I'm not interested in. But what motivates me sometimes, Ina, is watching really dumb people do things. [22:02] Because I'm like, wait a minute, there's a lot of, wait, look at Ina interviewing me, by the way. I've been so much talking. Wait a minute, hold on, I've got to pause. [22:10] You are good. You're interviewing me. I'm going to pass the strawberry to a real. All right. I have one sip of my tea. One sip. One sip. And I'm like, you know what the thing is, Ina? The 70s. No. [22:27] You were a big part of me feeling like, wait a minute. Was I that dumb person cooking? [22:34] We have to back up here. No, I guess I mean that I was motivated by, I watched people learn how to cook, and I thought, hold on. I know how to learn new things. I can learn new things. One of my favorite things that Jennifer Garner ever said was she said, as you get older, you're not willing to try new things because you're, [22:54] afraid of failing. Of course. When you're a kid, you try everything and you fail, you get up, you do it again. But as we get older, we're not willing to do that. And I think it really got me to think about the things that I wasn't doing because I thought I wouldn't be able to do them well. That's a pattern in your life over and over again for you is you decide to kind of

[23:12] evaluate where you are and choose a joyful next path. Like you've done that over and over again. So you grew up in Brooklyn. [23:21] We got to bring Jeffrey in right away. I mean, I don't know. We just got to bring him in. I'd love to bring him in here right now. I mean, Jeffrey and you meet first when you're 16. I was like 17 when he saw me. Yeah. [23:33] I was 16 when he saw me and I met him when I was 17. And you were married at 20? Yeah. [23:39] Yeah. Wow. Smartest thing I ever did. I know. I have to say. Against everybody's advice. If your mother tells you not to marry somebody, listen to yourself, not your mother. And what did Jeffrey's parents think? Did he, did they want him? They were just wonderful to me. They were? They were wonderful. Yeah. Jeffrey's grandmother, when they, they, they met me when I met them when at some family bar mitzvah or something. And Jeffrey's, um, uh, his button fell off his coat. And I said, Oh, just give it to me. I'll sew it back on again. And his grandmothers were taking their wedding rings and going, [24:09] her now before somebody else does. She knows how to sew a button. She knows how to sew a button on. [24:18] I think what people, I know what people respond to about your relationship with Jeffrey, and it is that [24:26] You kind of can't fake mutual respect. You just see it or you don't. And you two have a lot of respect for each other. Yeah. And we do. We keep it very simple. We have a very different kind of life than we expected to. I mean, we don't have kids. We don't have cats and dogs. We don't have gerbils.

[24:46] It's just the two of us. And if we try to figure out what to do, we figure out what he wants to do and what I want to do. [24:56] we want to do. It's not about whether we get to do what you want to do or I want to do. And big things like careers and small things like what movie we go see. I just I love that about him. He's so respectful. And it's pretty hard not to, you know, to return that. Yeah, it's just in a long marriage and a long relationship. It's like one of the things you have to be vigilant about is just trying to stay respectful with someone that you that you [25:23] know so well because we just get very familiar with people and we forget that part where we have to be kind of tender with them and you're both are very tender with each other just i don't take it for granted ever [25:35] What do people say to you about your relationship with Jeffrey? Because I bet people project a lot on it. I know the Internet does. A lot of people say, oh, I have a Jeffrey, too. And I think to myself, nah. [25:49] You're like, bring him to me. In your dreams. And you're like, stay away from mine, Jeffrey. Do women ever hit on you, Jeffrey? No, I hope not. [26:01] Oh, my God, I would kill those women. [26:05] say, oh, I have a real, and what do you think they're saying when they say that? That I have somebody that I have a really good time with, that I just adore and he adores me back, which is all you really want, right? Yeah, but you know, that's what you want, and I relate to that too, but I think sometimes people forget the fun part in relationships. It's so important. Why is it important? I mean, what's the first thing you look for in a friend or a spouse? They have a sense of humor, because otherwise, I mean, there's such crazy stuff going on. If you don't have a sense

[26:35] to live with. I know. I know. It's very simple, but it's sometimes hard to learn. And I do think that the other thing that people see in your relationship is a man who is very in love with his partner and [26:50] You are choosing someone who loves you, I guess is the simplest way to say it. And that's, [26:58] It seems so easy and simple, but it's not always what people do. I knew somebody who would fix people up with... [27:05] Yeah. [27:16] Are they a good person? Do they want to take care of you? And that doesn't mean financially, that means everything. Like, do they want to take care of you? And the third one really shocked me because it was so simple. [27:27] Does he want to be with you? [27:29] So many people want a wife. [27:32] but they want to go play golf. [27:35] But that's the thing about Jeffrey. There's nothing, I mean, he just follows me around the house. [27:40] And every once in a while I turn around and go, does he want to be with you? [27:45] Yes. Do you want to be in each other's company? Do you want to be together or are you just looking for that, to fill in that blank? Yeah. That is so deep. It really is. It's so simple and yet it's so important. Yeah. And I know that you, you know, you know, [28:00] I... [28:01] I anyone who's been married, how many years have you been married? [28:04] 57. So you have this

[28:09] you know, ever changing story, right? This song that keeps changing and growing. How have you grown? How have you both changed from when you were married at 20? Like, how are you different? Oh, I think when we were married at 20, we each had like roles. You know, he was the husband, I was the wife. I'd go, you know, we both had jobs and, you know, he would go to the State Department. I worked in the White House and it was assumed that I would come home and make dinner until I found it just incredibly annoying. I just didn't want to have the girl role [28:39] And so we just threw the whole thing away and started all over again. And he took the checkbook and he said, here, you do it. It was one time he said to me, he said to me, I'm what's he doing the bills? And he goes, I'm what's this bill from Bloomingdale's? And I thought, I'm not about to justify to you what my bill from Bloomingdale's is. And he picks up the checkbook and he hands it to me. He goes, OK, you do it. And I said, fine. [29:02] And that was that. It's so funny. I have such memories of my parents sitting at the kitchen table with their checkbook. Doing it together. Doing it together. That's interesting. And it being a big deal about who was doing it. And you're right, especially a lot of women during that time just weren't even aware of their financial situation, let alone knew how to do it. And recently, actually, Jeffrey said to me, so how much do we spend on the garden? And you're like, Jeffrey, don't ask questions like that. It doesn't matter. We have strawberries. We're fine. I just went, I don't think so. [29:32] I get it. Okay, we cannot blow past the White House. We just said so casually. I was at the White House. He was at the State Department, like an episode of the Americans or something. That was us. You didn't know that. That's the untold story. I mean, people could argue that you and Jeffrey worked for the CIA.

[29:54] Well, I think a few people, you know, you don't know this about Jeffrey, but he was a paratrooper [30:02] state. So everybody I know thinks he's in the CIA. And every once in a while I go, are you, are you actually in the CIA? And he always says, you know, the wives are the last to know. [30:15] That would be an amazing show. I would watch that where he reveals at age 90. And I'm a Russian agent. [30:24] But you worked in the White House and you were working during the Ford administration, [30:32] came in and then stayed on through Carter. And what were you doing there? [30:36] I worked on nuclear energy policy. Nuclear energy policy. So it's the part of the federal budget that I worked at Office of Management and Budget, which writes the president's budget. And I oversaw the budget for nuclear power plants. And it's a big deal. [30:54] Interesting that it's come up now, enriched uranium. Yes, it's very, uranium is in the news. It's in the news. It's back in the news. [31:02] And how did you get that job? How did you get a job? I just, I think Jeffrey knew somebody in the White House who was looking for somebody and I applied for the job and got it. And you talked about how it was pretty, it was tough for you. There was, things moved slowly. Yeah. [31:16] Slowly. Oh, my God. Every year we would take something out of the budget, something big. I mean, at the time it was there was one nuclear project that was $20 billion, which was a lot at that time in the 70s. And it would go up to the Hill and the Congress...

[31:33] person, I think it was Strom Thurmond, was from the district that this plant was in. And then we were trying to get rid of it or give it to private industry. He would have no control over it. So he would put it back in. And then the next year I'd write the same papers to the president to take it out. And the next year Thurmond would put it back in again. And after four years of that, I was like, okay, I'm done. So done. I'm not writing this paper one more time. So you're writing budgets and you decide, I need something where there's, I really need to do something that like where I can [32:03] something and I can see the results of it fast. And so, [32:07] Can you just tell me how do you go from I mean, I've read about it and I've and I've watched you talk about it. But still, the leap from working in that very corporate job to running a store is such interesting leap. [32:24] What made you what gave you the courage to make the leap? How do you make that career change? I knew I was done with working in the government. Yeah. [32:35] And I was... [32:37] When I lived in Washington, I taught myself how to cook. I used to, just for fun, buy old houses, renovate them and sell them. [32:46] Actually, I was going to business school at the same time. I don't know how I did any of that. I knew I was either going to go into real estate or the food business, and I just didn't know which one. Then this ad showed up in the New York Times. I came home that night, and I said to Jeffrey, I really need to find something else to do. He said, just pick something fun.

[33:05] Pick something that you think you'd love doing, and if you love it, you'll be really good at it. And I was like, funny you should mention it. I saw an ad for a business for sale in a place I'd never been. It was a specialty food store. And he said, let's go look at it. Wow. So, I mean, what an incredible guy. It was in a place that he didn't live. He was working for the Secretary of State. It would basically blow up our lives. And he said, just go look at it. This episode is brought to you by K18. [33:35] you've tried a million different hair masks only to watch your results literally wash down the drain well you should know that k18 molecular repair hair mask actually reverses damage thanks to the patented k18 peptide you'll get strong soft bouncy hair in just four minutes color bleach heat however your hair has been damaged this totally transforms it from the inside out shop [34:05] Amy. [34:06] This episode is brought to you by PayPal. Imagine getting to the checkout at Sephora, a cart full of your favorite beauty products, and saying to yourself, I don't have to pay the full amount today. [34:17] Crazy, right? [34:18] Wrong. With PayPal Pay in 4, you can buy what you love now and pay the rest later. With no fees, no interest, and no impact on your credit score. Pay in 4 with PayPal. Subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com slash payin4. PayPal Inc. NMLS 910457.

[34:38] This episode is brought to you by eBay. Lately, more and more people have been talking about selling on eBay, and we can see why. Everyone has stuff that no longer fits their lives, and selling on eBay is actually really easy. Just snap a few photos, write a description, and set a price. Suddenly, the stuff that's just been sitting around is in front of millions of buyers already searching for what's next. Find what you love. Sell what you don't on eBay. [35:03] This episode is brought to you by Ultima Replenisher. You know what no one has time for? Over-the-top wellness trends. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for taking care of yourself, but being healthy should make your day better, not harder. And that's where Ultima comes in. With all six essential electrolytes, Ultima provides balanced hydration that fits right into your day. Available in delicious plant-based flavors with no sugar, calories, or carbs. Shop Ultima on Amazon or in-store at Target and Whole Foods Market. [35:33] You have now... [35:35] a business, employees, and you have to learn very quickly how to be a boss. Yeah. Right? And so how would you describe yourself as a boss? I always wanted to be the boss that I wanted to have myself. And so I'm very collaborative. I think in the beginning I was probably too collaborative, like, what do you think we should do here? What should we do there? And as I got better at it, somebody actually gave me, a friend gave me the advice, your employees need two things from you. They need you to be clear and they need you to be happy. [36:05] and from then on I would say I need these candies bagged and I need them wrapped up like this and if I was having a bad day I would just disturb the energy in the room. Sometimes I have 50 or 100 employees and they'd all be like what did I do wrong but it had nothing to do with them so I'd walk out of the store I'd walk around the block calm myself down and come back happy and it was I think that was the best lesson I ever had for business. How do you give feedback or criticism?

[36:35] Thank you. [36:35] I'm very clear about two things. If I'm criticizing you, I'll take you out of the room and discuss what you can do better. If I'm, [36:42] complimenting you, I'll do it with everybody around. I totally agree. I think compliments with everyone around is a huge thing that people forget to do. I think they actually do the opposite quite a bit. They criticize with everyone around and they compliment privately. And if I have to fire somebody, I'm always worried, what are their colleagues going to say? And I usually give them a lot of warnings, explain what they have to do better. And at the end of the day, it doesn't work. [37:12] thank you and kiss me when they leave. Like, this isn't the right job for you, but that could be the right job for you. And then I call everybody together, and that works for me, and I say, I need to explain to you what happened, why this didn't work out with that person, because I'm so worried that their colleagues are going to be mad that their friend is gone. And 100% of the time, they're like, oh, such a pain in the neck. We hated working with them. I'm so glad you fired [37:42] And it's a kind of on the job learned skill, because to your point, I think, uh, [37:47] We're going to make a huge generalization here, but. [37:51] And sometimes a lot of women are good collaborators. So we figure out, like, I think the best way to be in charge here is to make sure everybody's voices are heard. And I'm constantly collaborating until you realize that people are looking for direction for direction. And I start with the assumption everybody wants to do a good job. I just have to give them the tools to do it. I have to I have to tell you one story, though.

[38:21] and three people working in the store. And one of them was just dreadful. And they were all like 16 years old. But she was just, I mean, she had no vision. Like if I tell her to clean the counter, if there were 20 customers waiting, she'd be cleaning the counter. She was just very sweet, but not very good. So I took her out in the back and I explained that, you know, I'm sure there are other jobs that are good at this isn't the one. And it was so gentle because I was so worried about [38:51] She didn't know she'd be fired. [38:55] And the worst part is I couldn't do it again, so she stayed for the whole summer. [39:01] I've gotten better than that. I could see that happening, too. Yeah, where everyone's like, thank you for the feedback. I'll see you tomorrow. And it's like, oh, no, what have I done? [39:12] Barefoot Contessa, when you opened the store, [39:21] Well, you know, I had to learn it. Yeah. I thought this is an expensive store. It's very expensive to make specialty foods. I'm in the Hamptons. I'd never been there before. So I had an image of it being fancy. And so if I made, I mean, while we're talking about roast chicken, if I made roast chicken in the store, I'd be a good idea. [39:42] I take a huge white platter and I fill it with fresh herbs and then I put the roast chickens on it and then put them out and nobody bought them. [39:50] And I was like,

[39:51] Okay, what am I doing wrong? [39:53] I took the chicken back in the kitchen and I put all the chickens in little red and white paper cups like you would put French fries in and put them on the counter and they all sold. And I thought, oh, that's so interesting. People want. [40:06] really accessible food. They don't want fancy food because they're eating it at home. It's different. When you go to a restaurant and want something that's interesting that you've never had before or takes a long time. [40:18] At home, you want simple food. You want roast chicken, roast carrots and brownies. And what do you say? Really good ones. Really good ones. And they taste good when you make them. Then they're the really good ones. But that is a thing that I think is just like that thing that you capture with your cookbooks, your show, your podcast. This idea that, you know, you have everything you need. Like you've got it within you. [40:48] Wizard of Oz or something, which is like, it's been in you all along. You just don't know it's there. Yeah. We just have to unleash it. Yeah. That's one of the things that I really wasn't prepared for. [40:59] when I started writing cookbooks, is people sending me gifts. They kept sending me things. I'm like, why are they doing what? I mean, people were like making huge pots and that they threw themselves and sending. Why are people being so nice to me? And I realized that it was, I wasn't giving them something like a cookbook. I was giving them the tools to make something for themselves. And they would put it out and people would say, you made that chocolate cake yourself?

[41:29] so lovely. It was such a realization that it was, that it was, it just felt very generous. It was really nice. Yeah. That we're giving people the tools to do something for themselves. People really attach to you, Ina. That's so sweet. It's really sweet. I mean, I think you remind them of someone in their family. I think they feel exactly what you've taught them something. It's [41:59] and all that stuff. How does it feel to get all that love and attention from people? Well, I mean, who wouldn't like it? I mean, it sounds great. That's really... When they start throwing things, we'll talk about it. [42:11] Yeah, it sounds great. Dumbest question I've ever asked. [42:17] Okay, I have a question for you. Okay, here we go. What's your favorite New Yorker cartoon? Oh, my God. I heard you love New Yorker cartoons. I love New Yorker cartoons. I don't remember any of them. Oh, really? But they're so good. [42:29] I do remember one. I knew you would. Okay, thank you for asking. And for anyone under the age of 55, The New Yorker is a magazine. [42:38] And you can read it in person, and you flip through it like it's like a book, but skinnier and flatter. And for those who forget, a book is a... [42:52] It is... [42:54] A piece of rigatoni on the phone calling somebody and saying, Fusilli, you crazy bastard, how are you?

[43:09] I love that you have a food one because all of mine are food. My favorite one is a little pig sitting on the examining table in a doctor's office. And the doctor comes in with this. [43:21] his clipboard and he goes, I have very bad news. It's your ribs. They're delicious. [43:34] Do you ever enter those contests? No, I wouldn't have a clue. It amazes me if people can write those things. Okay, me too. Did you? No, I write jokes for a living, one could argue. [43:51] Like stumped, like, why do I stay here? And it's so funny. It's just like, I guess, hey, guys, what's going on? I actually just saw a cartoon. It wasn't the New Yorker, but I just saw a cartoon. It was two dogs coming up to the front door, and there were two dogs answering the door. And one of the dogs, the ones arriving, said, you know, Cheryl said, life is short. We really have to smell the roses. [44:21] a mailbox, and it said rose, so the dog's inside with the roses. [44:27] Life is short. We really have to smell the roses. [44:31] I just started laughing. I couldn't stop. What do you like about New Yorker cartoons? The play on words. The play on words. The intelligence behind it. Just like, what kind of a mind thought of that cartoon? Life is short. We really have to go smell the roses. And they said, and here we are. Well, you know, I usually ask this question at the end,

[44:51] it now, which is what makes you laugh? What are you reading, watching? I can tell that you like to laugh. What makes you laugh? I do, my friends. I don't tend to watch humorous [45:05] movies or shows or things like that. I just, my, I love, my friends have great sense of humor and they just make me laugh all the time. Well, how important, you know, in being in your 70s, what are, what are female friendships mean to you? What are your friendships mean to you? It's everything. Yeah. It's everything. Yeah. I mean, I, I mean, Jeffrey's clearly my best friend, but, but women bring something totally different and it's really connection. And actually that's [45:35] I could really work out the issues from my childhood, and it was just wonderful. But [45:41] When I started doing Be My Guest, I realized what I was missing really is connection. And that's been just extraordinary. I've made, well, your dear friend Tina, made great friends. Yes, I'm so jealous. You guys went out to eat. It was so much fun. And you're friends with Julia Louis-Dreyfus. Julia, exactly. Congratulations to Queens. Is she the best? Well, not only is she the best, but she spoke to us before this podcast. Oh, she did? We got a question. Oh, is she the one? She was a special guest. [46:11] Oh, great. Yep. So smart. Oh, my God. And she said the same thing about you. She said you're really smart. She did? Yep. Thank you. Smarties all around. And Tina, all smart people. Yeah. Smart, wonderful, talented women. I think smart people who have a sense of humor have the best senses of humor. Well, Tina has said this, which is you can tell a lot about somebody by what they laugh at. Yeah.

[46:30] Although that doesn't say much about me because I laugh at everything. [46:36] You just like to laugh. That's all. That's good. But you're right. A sense of humor is a sign of intelligence. And also it's the way we just tell each other what we care about. So Julia, we spoke to Julia. She says hello. [46:48] She was wearing a giant sun hat and going through her refrigerator when we talked to her. And she had a question for you. [46:57] She said, how are you so cheerful? [47:01] And then she said, and what makes you, what puts you in a bad mood? [47:11] Passive aggressive people who tell you what you want to hear and do exactly as they please makes me crazy. And I can chew on them for years. I'm going to say more about that. What do you mean? So like someone who placates you? Yeah, well, we all know people that... [47:27] If you're doing something with someone, you want to... [47:32] Be collaborative. Let's just all figure out what the issues are, what we need to do, and then together we'll make a decision. Unless it's my business, but just moving forward. [47:45] I don't like people that withhold information so that they control the situation because then I'm making a decision without the real information. And I just find passive aggressive makes me crazy. I mean, crazy. And you also asked what what how I keep my happiness, my joy. I think that.

[48:08] It needs to be nurtured. I think we're either... [48:11] I'm born with a positive or negative energy. And I think about when I do yoga and my instructor says, what does she say? Find your inner smile. I think you either walk around with an inner smile or you don't. And if you don't, I think you need to just nurture it. And I feel like I was just born this way. My parents used to say I came out like playing with my toes and giggling. And I think it's an important thing to do. I think it makes life easier. [48:41] It's true. I think it's really important. And yes, we've had extraordinary lives, but we've also had difficult times. You have. You talk a lot about it in your memoir. We've all had difficult times. And how you deal with it, it's up to you. You know, if I may, you spoke about your late in life experience. [49:02] Would you say reconciliation with your dad? Yes. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? You know, my dad was not a great dad. He was really tough and critical. But later on, we were together. They were giving him a party for me for my second book, so it was 2000. And he was sitting with me, and he said to me one sentence that made all the difference in the world. He looked at me, and he said, I don't know what I was thinking. [49:32] And it makes me cry just now. And that changed our whole relationship because he felt badly about it. And he basically said, I'm sorry in that sentence. And then we went on. But my dad, I have to say.

[49:45] He was a tough dad, but he also gave me something when I was a child that was really important. He loved to talk through – he was a doctor, but he loved to buy real estate. So he would always talk through real estate deals, and he'd say, come in my study and talk through this deal with me. And so he taught me how to borrow money, go to the bank, borrow money. I credit him with a lot of things that I've done that don't scare me because I'm used to talking about it that way. [50:15] of [50:17] of forgiveness or the idea of letting things go, basically. Like, it shows up in all different ways. It shows up in the way you are in relationship with your husband, which is like we just kind of don't sweat the small stuff. You just have to kind of, like, you know, like love each other through hard times. It shows up in the way that you cook, which is when there's, like, a mistake or an accident or, like, an oopsie. It's, like, funny. It's fun. Yeah. It's not the end of the world. And also just let it go. It's not the end of the world. Yeah. Yeah. [50:47] to do with your family of origin and, and deciding like how much you're going to hold on to. And it doesn't mean you always forget. I mean, every once in a while I have lunch with them and I go, I can't believe I'm having lunch with this monster, but he wasn't them. He really had come around and, you know, but it's, it's, you have to push that away. That's, that was then this is now. And, you know, there's all, we, we fetishize, um, uh, we, well, we fetishize marriage, especially, you know, um, [51:12] you know, cis, straight marriage. But we also fetishize children and people who have them, and you don't have children. What is the best thing about not having children?

[51:22] You might be responsible for them. Not having teenagers. You don't want somebody who says I hate you and crashes the car. Are you trying to lease yours out? Well, I mean, I don't think people, you know, there's all these studies. [51:42] Buried people without children are the happiest people. There's all these studies and everyone keeps saying, well, they just haven't met my children yet. I mean, it's amazing to me that I made that decision so young and that, thank God, Jeffrey was okay with it. But I just can't imagine my life any other way. I've done what I wanted to do. I've had just a wonderful time. You made very countercultural decisions for a woman of your generation. Yeah. [52:12] I really did. But I maybe maybe I'm just projecting, but I feel like, you know, when you were working and doing all of these, making all these choices and making these big leaps and big swings. [52:26] You didn't have as many women... [52:29] doing the same thing at the same time? I didn't have any. I really didn't have any. I can't think of anybody that I knew at the time [52:37] Who made the same choices. I really can't. And right now, as a woman running an empire. It's not an empire. It's an empire. [52:46] Okay. I want to call more women geniuses, and I want to call more female business owners. I want to call more female-run businesses empires. Empires are not just for men. Well, I think of an empire as having 1,000 employees. I have two. Do you only have two employees?

[53:07] part-time office manager. I want to talk to you about this. This is incredible because you've scaled down. I just, I want to walk across the lawn to the barn where I have people that I love and I want to cook all day. Did Tina ever tell you how she interviewed me at the Brooklyn Academy of Music? No, tell me about that. So she started and she said, you know, my friends think you have this perfect life. You get up in the morning, you walk across the lawn, you cook all day, [53:37] He comes back on Friday. And then she said, and I told my husband I was going to say this. And he said, you know, I'm going to be in the audience when you say that, right? [53:52] And she was kind of right. That's really what my life is like. It's just been great. So are you looking to like you were hustling so much in the work? I did. I worked really hard. Writing the memoir made me realize I worked really hard. What did you learn from your memoir that you didn't know about yourself? [54:07] relationship to work. Like I think about it all the time. I'm always like troubling it because I get such esteem from work. Like I get a ton of self-esteem from work and I don't want to give that up. I also get a lot of self-esteem from parenting and being a parent to my kids. And like you, I feel like I desperately need connection with people and my friends. So all of those things and a lot of connection comes from work. But I don't know about you, but as I look ahead, it's

[54:37] relationship to work to what is enough to, um, [54:41] You know, what do we want to, how do we want to shape the third act of our life? And you are a life shaper. You, you, so what do you see the last? I don't think that far ahead. You don't. I just think, what do I want to do? If I know what I want to do today, and by the end of the day, I'm going to decide what I'm going to do tomorrow. It's all I need to know. It's kind of like my first book. I thought, oh my God, how am I going to write a book? A whole book. And I thought, okay, I don't need to know how to write a whole book. All I need to know is what recipe I'm going to test today. [55:11] Thank you. [55:11] And then tomorrow I'll test another recipe. And somewhere along the line, at the end of the line, I'm going to have a book. But I don't give myself overwhelming projects. I give myself manageable bites. [55:22] Yes, I relate to that. It's just taking, I like to call it like, you know, like this season, you know, I think about it in terms of seasons, because the idea of like the next year is going to be fill in the blank. That's overwhelming. It's overwhelming. Winter season, we're going to work on this. Yeah, yeah. And you know what? There's this great expression, like I'm embarrassed to say, I can't remember the name of who said it. I have a laptop. I can look it up. J.P. Morgan, I think. I think it's J.P. Morgan is go as far as you can see. [55:51] And when you get there, you'll be able to see farther. But if you map it from here to there, you're going to limit yourself. You need... [55:59] Map it as far as you can see. And then when you get there, there may be other options you wouldn't have even thought of when you get there. So I just like to leave myself open to what things come along that was like, no, not interested. No, lose my number. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. That's kind of interesting, actually. Come back here. Yeah. I mean, I think that's success. Success is being able to decide what you get to work on. Well, that's the fun of it. It's a surprise. I mean, you don't want to do the same thing over and over again. Yeah. And when you were writing your memoir, how do you like to write?

[56:28] Never. No kidding. [56:29] writing the worst it's the worst people are always like what are you doing i'm like anything but writing i'm organizing my closets i'm i'm i'm making amends to all my friends whatever it takes to not write okay so fast fast round i know are you ready okay okay okay here we go best way to cook carrots [56:47] roasted with olive oil, salt, and pepper. [56:50] Hmm. [56:51] And do you enjoy a feta on there? Yeah, I enjoy feta on anything. Sometimes I put feta and honey on my carrots. That's fabulous. Or balsamic vinegar. Serapy balsamic vinegar. So good because the sweet carrots and the vinegar are good. I like things that have an edge. Yeah. And vinegars do. I love a vinegar. Me too. Oh, Julia wanted me to ask you this. How do you make, she's been making some sorbet and she, [57:15] It was very fancy. She is speaking of fancy. She had... [57:18] She made sorbet and then she scooped out a lemon and put it back in the lemon. It's so cute. But she found her sorbet wasn't as creamy. It was icy more than creamy. Any tips? She said she made it with sugar, water. Did she make it in an ice cream maker? [57:34] Great question. Yeah, I don't know. Some recipes have you just freeze it, almost like a granita, and that would be grainy. Yes. But if you make it in an ice cream, I'm not an expert on it. [57:50] I know. I don't really love desserts. Making them, it's like a whole other world. Okay. Favorite New Yorker cartoon. We got that. Was that on your list? Yes, it was on my list because I heard you love New Yorker cartoons, but you brought it up. Oh my God. Can I tell you my other favorite one? Yes, please. Dog sitting at the bar and the bartender walks over and he said, what can I get you? He said, I'll take a scotch and toilet water. Do you cook on Thanksgiving? Yes.

[58:18] Yes, I love Thanksgiving. Me too. It's just, it's like the best holiday. Yeah. Because it's traditional things. You can make them better. And yeah, I love Thanksgiving. What's your new, like, what's something you make on Thanksgiving that people would be surprised is at your table? Like, is there like, you know... [58:34] uh, like, huh, that on Thanksgiving? Well, you know, a couple of years ago, the New York Times asked me to do a store-bought Thanksgiving. And I thought, who could ever do that? So I said, I don't think so. And then I started thinking about it. And I realized that if you could take a store-bought ingredient from the store and make it easier, wouldn't that be fabulous? So I went and got [59:00] Pepperidge Farm stuffing mix, and I made a bread pudding out of it, which was so good. It was crazy. So I have a lot of Thanksgiving things now. You can actually get good mashed potatoes, but then I add sour cream and Parmesan cheese and garlic, and it's just delicious, and you have no idea that there's a store-bought ingredient in there. Okay. Young chefs or food writers that you're into? [59:30] Um, so, you know, like the other day she sent out a recipe. I'm like, oh, I'm making that. Yeah. But I don't, I don't really spend. What did you, what did she send out that you wanted to make? It was something that was great. No, I can't remember what it was. Do you ever watch TikTok or Instagram Reels or any of the young people that are cooking on there? TikTok, no. Instagram, I love. Yeah. And, um, I just think, you know, if you're interested in gardens, you know, you see a lot of stuff on gardens. Um, you have to be careful about not watching cute puppy things because that's all you ever get.

[1:00:00] This like version of the macho guy who's like in the woods and cuts the meat and puts it on the grill. What are you watching? [1:00:09] Come on over to my FYP, Ina. [1:00:13] Your profile is different from mine. [1:00:17] We don't all have a Jeffrey, Ina. We don't all have a Jeffrey. Secret ingredient that makes things better. [1:00:31] things that a splash of red wine in a big pot of lentils, it just changes everything. Yes. Anything. Lemon zest. Lemon zest. Yeah. [1:00:44] That's the other thing is it's really, I learned when I started cooking later, [1:00:48] um two things one is you know sometimes my anxiety needed to go somewhere you know sometimes it just needs to land like in your day right you have to you're making a list of what you have to do for your kids or do for your work or whatever and i found like thinking about what i was going to make was a really nice way to put my anxiety to sleep for a while yeah because you know what it is the [1:01:12] Cooking is hard. [1:01:14] and if it weren't hard, I wouldn't be interested in it. It's the challenge. And if you're doing something that's really hard, you just put everything else out of your mind. And I think that's one of the things I love about cooking. I mean, when I start, when I invite people over, I'm like, oh, this is going to be so much fun. And they're like, and then I'm like, why did I invite you? Oh my God. Everybody relates to that. Everybody relates to that. Like very relaxed. Oh,

[1:01:44] lemon zest. And I will say that for people who are learning how to cook, I would say reward yourself with a tool. [1:01:51] A zester. Because when I got a zester, I was like, look at me. Yeah. Look at me with a zester. Isn't it the best? I was like, and I would just take it out, and you're just like, look at this. Because, you know, sometimes we need a little treat at the end of our learning. And get yourself a zester. And don't keep it forever. Oh, really? Yeah. You can't sharpen it like a knife. Oh, right. So after a couple of years, get a new one. Throw it right in the ocean. [1:02:21] Okay, anything you refuse to cook. [1:02:23] Like anything you're like, no. It's so funny. We were just talking about this the other day. Really? I was with a friend, and we were talking about what our mothers used to make. It was like Monday, it was one thing. Tuesday, it was something else. Tongue. That's a tough one. Tongue was on her list, and liver and onions was on her list. [1:02:43] Never need to cook either one of them. No. But also things that are really complicated, like, you know, I don't know. There's... [1:02:51] I mean, like bouillabaisse, a really good bouillabaisse takes forever. You know, I don't know what a bouillabaisse actually is. It's a fish stew. Okay, which I heard Jeffrey doesn't like. No, no, no. I made a fish stew. It was the only thing I ever made that he didn't like. It was terrible. But that's not considered a bouillabaisse? It wasn't a bouillabaisse. A good bouillabaisse literally cooked for days. Got it, yeah. And it's good all those. The bones and the heads and the stock and all that stuff.

[1:03:21] to me is... [1:03:23] I mean, that's just like a level of, there's just certain levels where you think like, maybe someday I'll do that. You're going to come visit me. Oh, yeah. And we're going to make chicken stock. And you won't believe how easy it is. And what an incredible difference it makes. You take a big pot and you put like 10 things in it and you cook it for four hours. I love something that you can cook forever and forget it. Forget about it. I leave the house, I come back, it's fine. That was the thing about why everyone got into sourdough during the COVID. [1:03:53] takes three days. And everyone's like, I need something. That's exactly what I don't want. Do bay leaves do anything or is this some kind of conspiracy? Oh, it's so funny. David Remnick, the New Yorker, and I had a long conversation about this. Beats me. You're not ready to. My guess is that fresh bay leaves can make a difference. There's like an undertone that you can taste. But, [1:04:15] Bay leaves that have been in your spice drawer for 40 years? I don't think so. And also fresh bay leaves. Like, that's... [1:04:21] One needs to plan ahead for weeks. Like when you see a thing that says fresh bay leaves, it's like, I'm out. I mean, actually, it's true. Like sometimes in recipes, you'll be chugging along and then you see something, you're like, you know what, I'm out. Yeah. I just can't do it. I just can't get fresh bay leaves. That's why when I'm writing a recipe, I always say to myself, when I'm doing a book, is somebody going to look at the photograph and go, that looks delicious? Look at the recipe and go, wow. [1:04:46] I actually can find all those ingredients in the grocery store, and it's simple enough for me to make. Yes. And that was like from my first book to the one I'm working on now. It has to be all those things. It has to be. If you see an ingredient you've never heard of before, is that like an alcohol or is that like a spice? I have no idea. Absolutely. And then you also have that ingredient in your cupboard for years to come, and it mocks you. You're like, why did I buy Zatar? I'm never going to use this again.

[1:05:16] I was thinking of. [1:05:19] Come see our Zatar comedy. Yeah, I was like, oh, I'm never going to use this again. And I see it every time I open the thing. Okay, and then the last question is, and apologies for my language, but... [1:05:31] Have you heard, did you watch the White Lotus? I, not all of that. Well, there's this term that's happening right now, like where she has a cunty bob. [1:05:41] And you, sorry, I know. Sorry, I know. I apologize. But you've had a bob for a very long time. You have great hair. Thank you. And you have a very sharp, it's gone different lengths, of course, in life. A little bit, yeah. What do you enjoy about having a bob? And are you aware that you're very on trend? [1:06:01] On trend. I am. Oh, no, I have no idea. Everyone's getting a bob. Do you know when I first got that haircut, I was 25 years old. I lived in Washington. I had hair all the way down my back. And I had heard a friend of mine went to a salon at the Watergate. And I said, I'm going to go to a salon. [1:06:16] And it was run by a man, Sylvain Malou, who had just come to the United States. And she had a bob. And I went right to him and I had him cut my hair like that. And, you know, I've never changed it. It's been the same haircut since I was 25. I've tried it every once in a while. I'll try something else. I'm going to go, no. I'm going right back to where I started. It's a perfect bob. But now, I mean, everyone is going for it. That's so funny. Every Gen Zer is cutting their hair. [1:06:46] And also, you know,

[1:06:47] You know, it's like... [1:06:48] feeling very brave while they do it. Well, you have a bob, right? It looks great. I mean, I kind of am at the point where my hair just kind of cuts itself. Like it just doesn't really, it doesn't ever really grow that long. Oh, that's really interesting. You know, the French always say that if your hair is short, it shows your [1:07:05] ensemble better. But if your hair is long, it's not the right profile. How much time do you spend in France? As much as possible. Yes. And do you speak French? [1:07:17] Mm-hmm. Badly. Enough to... [1:07:22] Deal with a green grocer. Oh, you do? Yeah. Okay, and they'll speak it back to you. Yeah. And did you take lessons? No. Just from being there? I mean, from high school. From high school French. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I dream that someday I'm going to live there full-time and go to Berlitz, but it hasn't happened yet. Well, you never know. You never know, because I know the one thing I've learned is, like, there's just... [1:07:44] The sky's the limit. I mean, and I feel like that is really like the theme of a lot of what we talked about today is just that there is – [1:07:54] There is [1:07:56] There's no reason why... [1:08:00] There's no timeline as to when things are supposed to happen in your life. You get married really early. You start your business later. You're writing a memoir at this age. There's all these different ways in which you're just deciding what you want to do next. And you're the architect of your own life, basically. Yeah. And do it now.

[1:08:18] Don't wait. Yeah. I think a lot of people say, well, you know, first I'm going to do this, and then I'm going to do what I really want to do. Do what you really want to do now. Ina, thank you so much for the presents, for the strawberries, for the Prosecco, for the fake chicken. I feel, like, lousy with gifts. Someday I'll make you a real chicken. I can't wait. Okay. Thank you so much for coming. It was so much fun. It really meant so much. Me too. It was really fun. Thank you. [1:08:42] Thank you so much, Ina. That was so great. What a great conversation. [1:08:48] And, you know, I hope that this episode gets you hungry. I know it did me and it made me think about, [1:08:55] all the stuff I want to go home and cook. And so for this polar plunge, I just wanted to share something that I like to cook. My recipe, kind of a go-to recipe that I do a lot, which is just a very kind of simple chicken curry. I get chicken breasts with bone-in chicken breasts, and I put it in a... [1:09:18] A pot with some rice, chicken stock, bunch of curry, coconut milk. [1:09:24] Sometimes I'll throw in some chickpeas, throw in some parsley, make it look green, put it in the oven, slow cook it. [1:09:33] And that [1:09:34] That shit's amazing. Okay, you look like a million dollars. You can, you know, you want to brown the chicken first, right? You want to brown it in a pan first. Then you put it in with the uncooked rice together. [1:09:47] You put whatever it is, two cups of rice or whatever it is, three cups of chicken stock, put some coconut milk in, put in tons of curry, put in the oven.

[1:09:55] 375 for like an hour. Keep checking it, stirring the rice if you need to. You take it out, you put it on the table. People think you're a genius. You can serve it from the pot. You can serve the rice, take the chicken. [1:10:10] And Bob's your uncle. So that's my chicken curry. You can tell how I don't have a cooking show because I'm not great at explaining it. But you get it. You get it. You can do it. I believe in you. [1:10:20] All right. Thanks, everyone, for listening. Bye. [1:10:50] Hey. [1:10:51] Starting a business can seem like a daunting task, unless you have a partner like Shopify. [1:10:57] They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website, to marketing, to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. [1:11:05] There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz, and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. [1:11:11] With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your $1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer. [1:11:19] Hey there, it's Wayfair here, where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app, when you spot it, a brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill too? All right, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast expert setup on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app. Wayfair, every style, every home.