Son testifies against father in Hawaii. A pastor accused of cyberstalking wife. Plus, Hailey's Law.

[00:02] Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' safest new car brand. It starts with our approach. Every Mazda comes standard with proactive safety features. So you're more aware of what's around you, more focused on the road ahead, and ready before problems ever start. [00:19] Mazda. More of what matters most to you. Go to mazdausa.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse or promote any product. [00:30] Grainger knows when you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building. You're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners. Lights about to fail, filters ready to clog, HVAC on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger for quality products, easy reordering, and 24-7 support. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. [00:56] Grainger. For the ones who get it done. [01:00] Hopefully someone can hear me. Yeah. You're listening to the Dateline Story Meeting. Let's go ahead and jump in. I know it's a super busy day there. Our producers are catching up on breaking crime news. She was like filing reports and reports and reports. She's starting to believe in her father's guilt. Whether he takes a stand or not, good chance he might. [01:22] Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm Blaine Alexander. It's April 2nd, and here's what's on our docket. In South Carolina, a pastor has been charged with cyber-stalking his own wife. They say that he sent her unwanted and harassing text messages and had tracking devices on her car. So this is really intense.

[01:51] a former American Idol contestant who's accused of murdering his wife. He was hit with a waterfall of new charges, including aggravated murder and intimidation of an attorney, victim or witness. Plus, after an Indiana teen was allegedly kidnapped by a man she met playing video games online, her dad is now on a mission to change the law. Predators depend on that delayed response to take your child further away from you. [02:21] at the trial of an anesthesiologist accused of trying to murder his wife. A key prosecution witness has taken the stand, the anesthesiologist's son. [02:34] It's week three in the trial of Gerhard Koenig. That's the anesthesiologist accused of attempting to kill his wife when they were hiking on the scenic Palipuka Trail in Oahu on March 24, 2025. He is pleaded not guilty. [02:51] Koenig's wife, Ariel, who told the jury how her husband pushed her towards the edge of a steep cliff, pulled out a syringe to try and inject her with a mysterious substance, and then hit her in the head with a rock multiple times, only stopping when two other hikers arrived at the scene. I, at some point, hear a woman's voice say, we're here, and we're calling 911. Okay, so after you hear that woman's voice, what happens?

[03:21] And I just crawled away really slowly. But it's what Gerhard Koenig did next that the prosecutor asked the jury to pay attention to this week. He alleges that after running off into the woods, Gerhard called Emil Koenig, his 19-year-old son from a previous marriage, to confess. He says, I'm not going to make it back forever. [03:42] I tried to kill Ari, but she got away. Gerhardt's defense attorney says far from being a confession, the call was Gerhardt's goodbye to his son as he contemplated suicide. He was calling him. [03:54] to tell him he was sorry? [03:56] He was calling him to tell him that he wished he was a better man. [03:59] On Tuesday, the jurors got to hear from Emil himself as he took the stand against his father. Can you start off by stating your name, please? Emil Koenig. And who is Gerhard Koenig to you? My father. [04:10] Here to bring us the latest from the courtroom is Hawaii News Now anchor and reporter Mahelani Richardson. Welcome back, Mahelani. Aloha, Blaine. Aloha. So good to see you. Thank you for being here with us to break this down. Now, last week you mentioned that this case was basically a he said, she said type of situation. The only two people who really know, of course, what happened at the top of that mountain are Gerhardt and Ariel. Now, she says that he attacked her first, but Gerhardt's defense is basically saying that she hit him first. [04:40] bunch of witnesses to support their version of events. But break down for us, what has the jury heard so far in this case? We heard from Ariel Koenig herself. She lifted her bangs to show the head injury that she still had. And she was missing parts of her hair on her head. The prosecution also showed pictures of her from the incident, bloody head, blood streaming down her face. And

[05:10] doctor who said the injury went down to her skull. If you could see down and through portions of this laceration, you could actually see the skull. I observed pieces of rock and material that were actually embedded in the laceration. Oh my gosh, that's just incredibly graphic. I mean, just some really disturbing details in all of this. Write down for us, how has the defense been handling these expert witnesses on the stand? When it comes to the doctors, the experts who have looked at [05:40] case, the defense has been very, very pointed in questioning. The defense said that the injury, it looks bad. [05:48] But it's not that bad. When we heard from that emergency room doctor, the doctor said that she did not have a traumatic brain injury and no internal bleeding. And doctor, the CAT scan to the head indicated that there were no skull fractures, correct? Correct. And no hemorrhaging was found either, yes? [06:07] I mean, correct? No internal hemorrhage. Now we know that Gerhard's laptop was turned over to the police. Walk us through that. There was hours of testimony in terms of what Gerhard looked at on his computer after he believed that he had discovered that his wife had been cheating on him. And he was on the computer late night reading these forms about infidelity and divorce. [06:37] And Andrea Miller is the wife of Jeff Miller, the man who Ariel was allegedly having an affair with. And he wanted to talk to her on the phone. He offered his number. At this point, we don't know if Andrea Miller ever responded to his email.

[07:07] print to show just how upset he was at the issues in their marriage, those ongoing problems. Still, the search histories, the injuries don't answer that basic question, though. Again, who hit first? That's kind of what it sounds like this whole thing is coming down to, right? So, Emil took the stand on Tuesday, and I'm just curious, what was your impression of him? You've been following this case from the very start. Emil is very young. He was very somber. He was serious, only looked at the prosecutor. He didn't [07:37] His answers were very short, very concise, and not emotional. So one of the big things, of course, is that call he got from his dad. Let's listen to what he says about that call. What did the defendant tell you during that call, as close to word for word as you can remember? [07:53] that [07:54] he would not be making it back to Maui. [07:57] and to take good care of [07:59] the [07:59] younger kids [08:01] and that he had [08:02] that [08:03] Ari, my stepmom, had been cheating on him. [08:06] and that he tried to kill her. [08:08] Did the defendant say anything about self-defense? No. [08:12] Thank you. [08:12] Did the defendant say anything about Ariel attacking him? No. [08:16] So this was a FaceTime. Emil could see his dad. What did Emil say that he noticed about his dad during that call? Emil said that he noticed that there were blood splatters on his dad's shirt. And when he asked about it, he said that Gerhard told him that it was Ariel's blood. I mean, that had to have just been shocking for him to hear. But then shortly after that first call, Gerhard actually called Emil a second time. What was that all about?

[08:46] FaceTime, he told Emil that he wanted to jump off the cliff, according to Emil. He said that he was just going to jump and said that a couple times. [08:57] So after the defendant told you he was going to jump a couple times during the second call, [09:02] How did you respond? [09:04] Um... [09:06] same way as before said [09:08] Not to? I don't know. You told the defendant not to jump. Right. [09:12] How did this second call end? [09:14] Um... [09:16] With him saying... [09:17] with the defendant saying, [09:19] I'm gonna go before the police catch me. [09:22] Let's talk about the defense's strategy on cross. How did the defense approach cross-examination? The defense asked if Emil wrote down what his dad said, if there was any recordings, if there was any video of what the dad said. You could see the defense was challenging his memory of what happened. You remember telling the detectives? [09:44] initially that your dad told you he tried to kill Ariel by pushing her off a cliff. You remember telling the detective that? Yes. [09:51] But later on, when a detective asks you about that, [09:55] You clarified and you said, [09:57] The part about pushing her off the cliff was what you assumed he meant, not what he had actually said, correct? [10:03] Yes, correct. [10:05] Emma Helani, the defense also pressed Emil on his relationship with Ariel's side of the family versus Gerhardt's side of the family. So what exactly is the defense trying to do with this line of questioning? Well, the defense is trying to show some sort of bias by Emil. Over the last year since this incident, you have continued to live with Ariel, correct? Yes. You also would see...

[10:29] Ariel's parents, Judy and Pete, regularly leave over the last year, correct? Correct. And you refer to them as your grandparents, yes? Yes. And you... [10:38] They came with you to court today, yes? [10:41] The defense is trying to show that Emil is very close to Ariel and her family. When Emil was in high school, he chose to live with Gerhard Ariel and his two half-brothers in Kahului, Maui. They had been living together for about two years before this violent incident. He works on Maui and lives with Ariel and his two half-brothers today after this incident. [11:11] and we know that you will be all over it. Thank you so much for joining us. Blaine, mahalo, Nune. Thank you. After we taped our conversation on Wednesday, the defense called Dr. Konick to the stand. We'll bring you details on what he had to say in next week's episode. [11:26] Coming up, nearly two years after a woman was found dead in a park, prosecutors have accused her pastor husband of cyber-stalking her. [11:38] you [11:39] Insurance is not one size fits all. [11:43] That's why drivers have trusted progressives' "name your price" tool for years. [11:48] Just tell Progressive what you want to pay. [11:50] and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget. [11:54] Visit Progressive.com to find a car insurance rate that works for you. [11:58] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law.

[12:04] This episode is brought to you by Penn Foster. [12:08] Sometimes things don't go as planned, especially with high school. [12:12] When you start to feel like you're falling behind, [12:15] Having another option can make a real difference. [12:18] Penn Foster High School is an accredited online diploma program built for flexibility. [12:25] So whether you're hoping to go back and finish what you started, [12:29] or you're the parent of a teen who needs a different approach to education, there is a way forward. [12:34] With self-paced courses, you have the freedom to learn on your own schedule. [12:40] That way you can fit school around everything else going on in your life and stop falling behind. [12:45] Don't just get back on track. Start moving forward with Penn Foster. [12:50] Visit penfoster.edu slash dateline to learn more. [13:15] Before Tuesday, absolutely. [13:17] Yum! Grow your small business with LinkedIn Premium All-in-One. Try for free at linkedin.com slash all-in-one. [13:29] For our next story, we are heading down to South Carolina, where the sudden death of a pastor's 30-year-old wife two years ago made national headlines and is back in the news. And just a warning for our listeners, this segment includes discussions of suicide, so please take care while listening. On April 27th, 2024, Micah Miller left her Myrtle Beach home, went to a pawn shop, purchased a gun, and crossed state lines to Lumber River State Park in North Carolina.

[13:56] From there, she called 911. Tell me what's, um, happened. Um, I'm about to kill myself and... [14:07] I just want my family to know where to find me. Let me make sure I got the exact location where you're at, okay? Just one minute. Then Micah hung up the phone. Police were dispatched to the park where a kayaker alerted them to a body floating in the river. It was Micah. Micah's death made headlines after suspicions circulated online that her estranged husband, a well-known pastor named John Paul or J.P. Miller, abused her and may have even been responsible for her death. J.P. Miller has denied any abuse or involvement in Micah's death, [14:37] and a medical examiner officially ruled it a suicide. But now, almost two years later, J.P. Miller is facing criminal charges in connection to his wife, not for anything to do with her death, but for how prosecutors say he treated her when she was still alive. Miller has pleaded not guilty to charges of cyberstalking and lying to investigators, those of the charges against him, and he's set to face trial this month. So joining us now to break it all down is reporter Eric Richards, [15:07] Myrtle Beach. Eric, thank you so much for joining us. Very nice to be with you today. So Eric, just give us some background. Tell us about Micah and J.P. Miller. Well, I can tell you that Micah really was well-loved in her community, in her family. She was very deeply rooted in her faith. J.P. Miller, the pastor at Solid Rock Church, that was his church then in Myrtle Beach, and that is where he actually met Micah. They were friends since like

[15:37] She was a teenager when they met. He was 30 years old at the time. They became a couple, though, and actually married in 2017. So what was the state of their relationship leading up to Micah's death? Can you kind of pull back the curtain for us a little bit? [15:52] Well, yeah, I can tell you that they were actually estranged at the time of Micah's death. And her former attorney, Regina Ward, says that she had actually filed for legal separation twice from JP. The second time was on April 15th, less than two weeks before her death. And her sister, Sierra Francis, actually alleged that JP had been abusive towards Micah. [16:22] up with a bullet in her head. It was not by her, but actually by J.P. Wow. And Sierra said this in a sworn affidavit. This is just such a chilling thing to hear. You know, Micah had actually filed a police report the month before her death saying that she feared for her life. But the medical examiner said that there was no concern for foul play, that this was consistent with suicide. All [16:52] He was down here in South Carolina, allegedly with a woman that he was romantically involved with. This is according to the Robson County Sheriff's Office. And of course, Micah died in North Carolina, so across the border from each other. Correct. OK. Well, in the months after Micah's death, the FBI did get involved in the case when local authorities asked for their assistance. But then three months ago, December of 2025, there was some big news.

[17:22] to investigators. It's a very interesting charge, right? We think of stalking as something that a potential victim gets from somebody they don't know. But in this case, the alleged cyberstalking is being done husband to his own wife. Exactly. You know, and when you read the indictment, it sounds more like a domestic violence incident than your typical stranger danger or stalking situation. What exactly are prosecutors alleging that JP did to Micah and when are they alleging [17:52] in November of 2022 until her death in April of 2024, with J.P. Miller allegedly engaging in various cyber-stalking behaviors. They say that he sent her unwanted and harassing text messages and other electronic communications. Prosecutors also say J.P. had posted a nude photo of her online without her consent and also threatened to do so various other times. They say that J.P. had [18:22] on her car, in fact, that could surveil her with the end goal really of harassing and intimidating her. So this is really intense. That's the cyber stalking charge. Break down the false statement charge. The false statements surround events on March 11th of 2024. On that day, my kid actually contacted the police and said that she believed that somebody had deflated her tires and that she felt that she was being followed and contacted unwillingly by JP.

[18:52] They say that J.P. falsely claimed that Micah called him more than he actually called her that day, when in fact it was the other way around. And they say that J.P. also told police that he did not damage Micah's tires, when in fact they said that he did using a deflating device. Wow. Okay. So I'm really struck by this. There are these new charges that come about two years after Micah's death, but it doesn't sound like there are any charges actually relating to her death. [19:22] the blame, any blame, in fact, on J.P. Miller for Micah's death. Well, in January, J.P. Miller pleaded not guilty to both of the federal charges against him. So, Eric, tell us what's next for J.P. Miller here. J.P. is still out on bond, and he has to wear an ankle monitor. After several delays last week, there was finally a date set for his final pretrial conference. That will happen actually on [19:52] first. And if there is a conviction on these charges, what sort of sentence could these charges bring? [19:56] Well, JP, you know, if convicted, faces up to five years in prison for the cyber stalking charge and up to two years for making those false statements.

[20:26] is the National Domestic Violence Hotline. That number is 800-799-SAFE, [redacted phone]. Or you can text the word BEGIN, B-E-G-I-N, to 88788. Or go to thehotline.org. And of course, we'll put that number and all of that information in our episode description. Eric Richards from WMBF, thank you so much for joining us to break this down. And for all of your great reporting on this, we know that you'll continue to stay on top of it. [20:56] Thank you, and yes, we will. [20:59] Up next, it's time for Dateline Roundup. The alleged Gilgo Beach serial killer may not be heading to trial after all. We've got the latest. And new charges in the case of a former American Idol contestant accused of murder. Plus, after an Indiana teenager is allegedly kidnapped and abused by a man she met online, her dad wants lawmakers to do more to protect children. [21:25] People are building things here in America again, and this moment calls for the best of America. Our people. Introducing America's Workforce Academy, built by Meta. A program helping to train the next generation of welders, fiber installers, crew leaders, and more. Paid training, a job, and a path to America's future. Because the future is for everyone. Learn more at Meta.com slash AmericasWorkforceAcademy. [21:55] festival season is here and apple cash is an easy and secure way to split the bill just send or request money right in your group chat in the messages app once you're settled up you can spend the money you receive anywhere apple pay is accepted open your wallet app and set up apple cash today apple cash services are provided by green dot bank member fdic

[22:25] If you want to grow your small business, LinkedIn Premium All-in-One is the way to go. It can help you sell, market, and hire all in one place. Unfortunately, it can't stop you from working through your lunch. Mm-hmm. Yes, we can definitely get you that shipment, sir. [22:45] Before Tuesday, absolutely. [22:47] Yum! Grow your small business with LinkedIn Premium All-in-One. Try for free at linkedin.com slash all-in-one. [23:01] Welcome back. Joining me for this week's Roundup is Dateline producer Rachel White. Hi, Rachel. Hi, Blaine. Well, first we're off to Long Island, New York, where there is a stunning development in the case against Rex Heuerman, the man accused of murdering seven women and dumping their bodies in or near Gilgo Beach, dating back to 1993. Rachel, this trial is certainly one of the most highly anticipated trials of the year. Tell us the latest on this case. [23:26] trial was scheduled for September 2026. And, you know, he was arrested in 2023, had maintained his innocence and pleaded not guilty. But according to two sources close to the case who spoke with WNBC's Greg Sergal, he's now expected to plead guilty. Oh, wow. That is a very big change. Do we know exactly when he's expected to change this plea? Court records show that he's expected back

[23:56] So, of course, now the big question is, why might he be changing his plea? Why now? I mean, that is the big question. Hureman and his attorneys have yet to release a statement. You know, we've watched the state build a sprawling case against Hureman with DNA evidence, cell phone and digital evidence. We've also seen the defense challenge the state's evidence planning to present their case and ultimately lost those arguments. So did that impact Hureman's decision to change his plea? We don't know. [24:26] huge development and certainly changes the trajectory of this decades-long saga. Absolutely. And calling it a saga is very accurate. We will certainly be watching this on April 8th. So there's more to come there. Next, we've got a verdict out of the state of Mississippi in the murder trial of Jeff Spence. That's the man accused of murdering his daughter's boyfriend, entrepreneur and precious metals dealer Kirby Carpenter. This happened back in 2022. Rachel, this is a case I know that you've been following very closely. Just give us a quick reminder about this one. [24:56] Sure. So back in 2022, Kirby Carpenter was found shot dead outside his home. A year went by without any arrests. But then on the anniversary of Kirby's death, there was news of not one but three arrests. Kirby's girlfriend, Caitlin Spence, and her parents, Jeff and Karen Spence, were all arrested. Just break down, what was the investigator's theory of this crime?

[25:26] shots. And as for why, prosecutors believed it was all about money and greed for Jeff Spence. Kirby was in the precious metals trade. He often carried gold, silver and lots of cash on him. And their theory was that Jeff Spence wanted to take that from him. So, Rachel, as we talked about last week, Kirby's girlfriend and her family members initially pleaded not guilty to these charges. But before their trial got underway, Caitlin, his girlfriend, and her mother, Karen, changed their pleas. [25:56] what we know about all of that. Karen Spence took an Alford plea to being an accessory to grand larceny. She got 10-year suspended sentence and is out on probation. Caitlin pleaded guilty to be an accessory after the fact to capital murder and agreed to testify against her dad at his trial, with her sentencing set for after his trial took place. Okay, Rachel, so her dad, Jeffrey Spence, did go to trial back in 2025. During that trial, the jury deadlocked and a [26:26] declared. So last week, his second trial began. And as we mentioned, the star witness in his first trial was his daughter, Caitlin. Did we hear her testify again in the second trial as well? We did. And just like during his first trial, she told jurors about a conversation that she had with her father where he basically confessed to killing Kirby. Okay, let's listen to a little bit of that. And then later, by a waterfall, your dad apparently implies that he killed Kirby, right? Yes. [26:54] Do you enter a plea of guilty to accessory after the fact?

[26:59] - Yes. [27:00] And what was the basis [27:03] for your [27:04] pleading to that. [27:06] for the knowledge that I had after [27:11] of my conversation with my father. Based on that information, [27:16] uh... [27:17] Did you make... [27:19] Uh, [27:22] Did you consider that information [27:25] to be your dad. [27:27] admitting to you [27:29] to killing Kirby Carpenter. [27:31] Yes. [27:32] Well, last Friday, this case made its way into the hands of a jury. Rachel, you were right there. You were at the courthouse, and the jury came back pretty quickly. Yes, so they got the case around lunchtime, and they were back with a verdict about two hours later. Oh, wow, that's very quick. Let's take a listen. When the jury finds the defendant, Jeff and James Pence, guilty of birth to murder, [27:53] After this verdict was delivered, the judge went directly to sentencing Jeff Spence, and he received a mandatory life sentence. OK. And Rachel, what about Caitlin? What happened with her sentencing? On Monday, Caitlin Spence was sentenced to 20 years suspended, so she won't be serving any more time behind bars. She'll just be under supervised probation for the next five years. Was this an unexpected sentence for her? It was not. So the prosecutors recommended that the judge stick to the terms of their agreement, saying Caitlin did testify and it did lead to a conviction. [28:23] So that's what the judge did. And finally, we are off to Ohio, where a former American Idol contestant is back in court this week. Back in February, Caleb Flynn was arrested after his wife, Ashley, was found shot dead in the couple's home. Rachel, just give us a quick reminder about this case. Sure. So Caleb Flynn was a contestant on season 12 of American Idol, which aired back in 2013. In his interview for the show, he talked about how much he loved his wife.

[28:53] More than anything, she is very, very pretty. Just, oof, I love her. Caleb Flynn made headlines in February 2026 when he was charged with his wife's murder. And according to authorities, on the night of February 16th, Caleb called 911 to report an intruder saying that someone broke into his house and shot his wife in the head. But after processing the scene, investigators concluded that Caleb had staged the scene and was responsible for killing his wife. [29:23] this case, he was hit with several more charges, right? Yeah. So originally he was arrested and charged with Ashley's murder, felony assault, and tampering with evidence. He pleaded not guilty. But then following a grand jury indictment on March 18th, he was hit with a waterfall of new charges, including aggravated murder and intimidation of an attorney, victim, or witness. As for who Flynn is accused of intimidating, the indictment doesn't say. But it did say that this [29:53] through February 18th, so the days surrounding his wife's death. Now he faces a total of 11 charges, and he has yet to enter a plea for the new charges. Okay, and this week he had a pretrial hearing, right? So what happened there? Well, we learned that his court date has been set, so it's April 28th. That trial is expected to last two weeks. Okay, and I know that we will continue to follow that one as well. Rachel, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. [30:20] Bye. [30:21] For our final story, I wanted to talk to a dad who's heading to the Indiana State House this week to lobby for new legislation that he believes could help protect children. He's speaking out after suffering a truly unthinkable loss, the alleged kidnapping and death of his own daughter. This dad's name is Bo Busby. On January 5th, 2026, Bo said goodnight to his 17-year-old daughter Haley. And the next morning when he woke up, she had vanished.

[30:51] considered to be an endangered missing juvenile. Within days, investigators figured out Haley had been communicating for more than a year with a man that she'd met through an online gaming platform. That man's name, investigators say, is 39-year-old Tyler Thomas. Authorities say Thomas picked Haley up from her Indiana home on the night she disappeared and took her to Ohio. Nearly four weeks later, Thomas led investigators to her remains. Tyler Thomas has been federally charged [31:21] and with traveling across state lines with intent to engage in illicit sexual conduct. He has not been charged with Haley's death. His attorney told NBC affiliate WTHR that he plans to fight those charges. Since Haley's death, her father, Beau, has set out to change the law in Indiana to close what he sees as gaps in the current alert system for missing teens and to set up safeguards to protect kids from people they meet online. Beau joins us now to talk more about it. [31:49] Beau, first, thank you so much for joining us today. I don't have enough words to say how sorry I am for your loss. And I really, really appreciate you speaking with us today. [32:00] Thank you. [32:01] Before we dive into our conversation, Bo, I just want you to tell me about Haley. I want to know more about your little girl. Tell me about her. Sure. Yeah, Haley was a very kind and... [32:12] and loving smart girl [32:15] Such a special child with one of the sweetest spirits. Such a special girl to so many. I could only imagine. Well, I mean, I think that what you're about to describe is something that lives in the fear of every parent. So if you could just walk me through what happened. How did you realize she was missing and what happened after that? Sure. You know, it was a good day on that Monday night. Followed a lot of our...

[32:43] normal family, I'll say daily routines, traditions. We usually end the night with her tucking in her little sister before bed. And then before we go to bed, stop by her room, tell her good night one more time. Nothing really stood out. The next morning, we realized that she wasn't home. We [33:10] We immediately reached out to law enforcement and then started working hard and diligently to find her and bring her home. So, Bo, you reported Haley missing right away. But initially, the police classified her as a runaway because she had left a note telling you not to come looking for her. So what that meant then is that an alert didn't go out right away, notifying the public that she was missing. And police then waited a day before issuing a press release. [33:40] said that you believe this cost you valuable time. In Indiana, and I think this applies across most states, we have the amber alerts, we have the silver alerts, but they're so outdated and they don't reflect today's reality or risks. [33:57] because she wasn't physically... [34:00] Abducted. [34:01] you know, because that's sort of the laws that were still [34:06] working under, you know, physically taken, you know, you get the runaway category assigned and predators depend on that delayed response.

[34:20] to take your child further away from you. [34:23] Well, you're now pushing for what's being called Haley's Law in the state of Indiana, and it includes what's called a pink alert. [34:30] So explain that to me. What is that and how would that work? So it's looking at risk, [34:37] What are these things that we see in today's world where we know these are high risk situations and applying those to our response? It's not just looking at, well, this kid decided to leave the house. It's well, what? [34:54] What else are we seeing? We know how these predators, these experts online, you know, their tactics. And so let's look for those. And if we start to see some of those, maybe you'll get some type of public notification within 24, 48 hours. It needs to be more timely. I know that a big part of Haley's Law, and I think this is so important, is helping prevent situations like this before they happen. Let's talk about the education piece. [35:24] You know, in Indiana... [35:26] Now we have our education requirements. We have cyber bullying. [35:33] We have trafficking, but we don't talk about predators or we don't talk about groomers. That's nowhere in the law. Grooming is so often that first contact point, that first interaction. It makes sense that we start there and teach our kids what to look for and how to respond and our parents as well.

[36:03] education. Well, Boma, I just want to end with this. Is there anything that you want to say to parents who are listening about warning signs, red flags that you wish you'd [36:12] watched for or something that you would like parents to know today. [36:16] We have to become stronger advocates for our children. [36:21] in their safety because there are so many gaps. You know, Haley wasn't like the stereotypical gamer. I mean, she wasn't in her room all day with her doors closed, you know, just gaming. Our kids are just too accessible and the companies and the platforms that, you know, want to be in our homes. I don't feel like they're doing their part of it. [36:44] to ensure that they're being responsible and looking out for the safety and well-being of those users that are using their platforms. Absolutely. Bo, thank you. Thank you. [36:58] That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. To get ad-free listening for all of our podcasts, just subscribe to Dateline Premium. And we've got some very exciting news. [37:14] podcast category. So we can't win without you. Please go online and vote for Dateline. We've included the voting link in our episode description. And coming up this Friday, I have a brand new episode that I've been working on for the past few months. It is truly an unbelievable story that's been on Dateline's radar and mine from the very beginning. It's about a murder plot involving an affair, a fetish website, and a live-in au pair. And we have exclusive footage from her very first police interrogation.

[37:44] He was going to do something and I shot him also. [37:48] I did. You can watch Temptation this Friday at 9, 8 central on NBC, or you can stream it starting Saturday on Peacock. I hope you'll join us. Thanks as always for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins, Caroline Casey, and Kiani Reed. Our associate producers are Ellery Gladstone-Groth and Aria Young. Our senior producer is Liz Brown-Kurloff. Production and fact-checking help by Audrey Abrahams. Veronica Mazzaka is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. [38:18] Original music by Jesse McGinty. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline. Thanks, everybody. [38:33] With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. He wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums, he'd also talk about how Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. [38:50] "'What's in your wallet?' [38:52] Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC.