March Madness Takes, NBA Lottery Debates, and Best NFL Draft Story Lines With J. Kyle Mann and Todd McShay

[00:00] This episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means planning your whole day around it. [00:13] Presenting the Friars Turkey Breast only from Boar's Head. [00:17] Backyard tradition now available behind the counter. [00:20] Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905. [00:29] . [00:34] The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by Sam's Club. We are also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. [00:39] Put up a new episode of the Rewatchables. [00:41] On Monday night, we did the nice guys. It was part of CR Month. Me, Chris Ryan. [00:46] Rob Mahoney. The last one we're doing for CR Month, next Monday night, LA Confidential. So you have a few days to... [00:51] Watch it. People love CRM. We had a mailbag as well if you missed. [00:55] That, uh, [00:57] I'm not doing baseball today, but I have been really into this baseball preseason. [01:02] And I actually think the Red Sox are going to be good. I just want to get some quick stuff down on the record before we hit the podcast. I think the Red Sox are going to be good. [01:10] I think the over-under for them on FanDuel is 87.5%. [01:14] I think they're high 80s at least. My favorite [01:19] Over in the American League is the Baltimore Orioles, which I think they're 85 and a half. [01:25] But the 90 plus win, I think, is interesting. That's like plus 170. I just like them. I think they had like the year from hell last year. They did some smart stuff on the offseason. I like the Alonzo signing. I like their pitching. A bunch of young guys ready to go. And I think in general, I think the Red Sox, Yankees, and Orioles are all going to be

[01:45] Really good. And we'll see with the Blue Jays if they're going to have the year after curse. [01:49] But in the American League, usually there's three 90-win teams or four. [01:53] Leans more toward three, sometimes four. But I feel like... [01:57] Red Sox, Orioles, and I think the Mariners are going to be the third 90-plus win team. So one of the bets I was looking at was Red Sox, 80-plus wins, Athletics, 70-plus wins, Orioles, 90-plus wins, and Seattle, 90-plus wins. [02:10] That's plus 732. Misao Henshin House. I'll, [02:13] I'll jump in and do that as a group bet this morning. But I'm excited to have baseball back. And I think so. I'm going to have the Red Sox. And I think I'm going to be rooting for the Athletics and the Orioles and the Mariners overs as well. Lots to talk about. I'm really fascinated by the height stuff. [02:28] With baseball, too, I want to get Billy Gill in there to do a complete... [02:31] height breakdown because now they had to measure people for the automatic strike zone, which I thought was very exciting. So anyway, that's probably coming there later in the week or next week, but wanted to get that down on the board. Red Sox over the shirt. Red Sox are going to be good. [02:45] And I think Roman Anthony, there's MVP buzz for him, which scares me. [02:49] But he has a chance to have a little bit of a Drake May-ish year too. I think that's the hope. [02:56] in Red Sox Nation. But we like this team. This is good starters. I think they have bullpen and they have a lot of bats. They almost have [03:03] Too many bats and kind of loaded up at different positions. I'm interested to see what kind of mid-season trade they make. So stay tuned. All right, coming up on this podcast, I'm going to do a mini bail bag at the top. We're going to talk to Jay Kyle Mann about the Sweet 16 this weekend. Some of the draft prospect stuff.

[03:22] My love for Acuff. As you remember, like a month ago, House and I were raving about Acuff, and he's exceeded our expectations. So we're gonna do a whole bunch of March Madness stuff, and then Todd McShay's gonna come on to talk about the NFL draft and whether this is the most boring draft we've had this decade. [03:38] That's my feeling. Maybe he can talk me out of it. So basketball, football, a little mailbag next. [03:44] Take a break. [03:45] Pearl Jam. [03:45] And then a mailbag. [03:49] This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is presented by Sam's Club. [03:53] It is that time of the year when you just got to get in your car and go somewhere. I've done that plenty of times in my life. Nowhere gets you ready to go, quite like Sam's Club. [04:00] Snacks. The gear. [04:02] Super low prices on gas. They got a bunch of stuff that keep you and the whole crew rolling. [04:07] And here's what you got to do. You got to join the club of yes and. [04:11] at samsclub.com slash yes and yes. [04:15] You must be 18 years or older to purchase a membership. A membership is subject to qualifications. Visit samsclub.com. [04:22] slash yes end. [04:24] for details. [04:52] Kyle Mannis here from The Ringer. You can hear him on The Ringer NBA show.

[04:56] Dating Chow doing an awesome. [04:57] draft guide for us. This draft is out of control. [05:01] I mean we get to watch some of these guys actually kick ass [05:04] in the... [05:06] in the tournament. Some are gone. [05:07] Some remain, some are playing each other. [05:10] We have a top four team. [05:13] And then we have a little guard. [05:15] kind of cluster, [05:17] that you just know five guards in a row aren't going, so something weird will happen with that. [05:21] And we have my guy, Acuff. I feel vindicated. House now we're all in a month plus ago. [05:27] He's been great. So there's a lot to discuss. [05:30] Um, [05:31] I want to start here, though, with the non-March Madness thing. [05:35] So let's talk about expansion last week. [05:38] And I got this email from Nathaniel. [05:41] who, [05:42] Like me, wonders why Vegas is automatically the second choice for expansion behind Seattle. [05:47] He called it the entitled trust fund baby sports city being handed every team doesn't understand it. And he's like. [05:56] Why would we add two more West teams? So he was like, why wouldn't we consider a Midwestern city [06:01] Columbus, Ohio. [06:03] For example, second biggest city population-wise in the Midwest, but behind Chicago, 300,000 more people than Vegas. They had the pathetic blue jackets who were actually turned around. [06:14] Two hours from Cleveland. [06:15] But mention... [06:18] Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Louisville, Lexington. [06:21] What, what's your thought about Louisville Lexington with an NBA team?

[06:26] It's been rumored and whistled around a couple of times, but is it conceivable that that would happen? [06:33] I mean, there are obviously, as you know, a lot of layers to it. In terms of the first level of is there interest in it, [06:40] Yes. I mean, my God, yes. This place is just consumed with basketball. Granted, it's like we don't have any pro teams here. So, I mean, I tell this story that like some dude with like a – [06:52] hillbilly like that's the wrong way to put it just like one of those long gray panhandler beards this country dude was working on my house and he like caught wind that i was a basketball guy and he just had this big twang voice so he goes you think the duan wagner can shoot the ball it's just like it's everywhere it's everywhere it's like everybody knows everything about high school prospects and things like that so and then there's the history and the kentucky colonels killed here the hubie brown team and they won they were good and i mean you know all about that history it's like so i mean like [07:21] In terms of getting interest in it, I think it'd probably be pretty similar to Oklahoma City, except Oklahoma City didn't have any other basketball entity competing with it. So on that level, I think people would... [07:32] Eat it up, man. I don't think that'd be any problem. Yeah, I might have to do a special episode. [07:38] with the cases for other teams. Because Seattle... [07:41] should have never had lost their team and should have a team. And [07:45] I'm all in on either we relocate and give them a team. We have expansion. Like Seattle has to have a team. [07:51] I don't personally think we should expand. I think there's other teams we could move around, whatever. But if we're talking about what the other team should be,

[07:58] And you have Kansas City, which I think could potentially – [08:02] have a real case. I think the Louisville, Kentucky area... [08:06] Nashville versus Memphis, I think it'd be weird to have two Tennessee teams. And if anything, it would probably make more sense for the Memphis team to be in Nashville. [08:14] But I just think there's other options. And Louisville, I remember a few years ago, it was in the mix. [08:20] for a second with rumors and stuff. So I don't know. [08:24] So you're pro. You feel like you could support [08:27] two major college basketball teams and an NBA team. [08:30] I think so. I mean, I would we came really close. I mean, I think the Memphis one back in the early 2000s. It came down to it was a it was a pivot and it came really close. We've got a pro arena. There's a lot of stuff with like controlling the dates that they'd have to figure out. And there's the corporate stuff like UPS is scaling down here. Amazon has a huge you could figure all that stuff out, I think. But I'm with you. I think Seattle's the one that's just like for the justice of an outrage. Yeah, they got it. They got to have it back. [09:00] We had two Save Our Sonics mailbags in 2008 that are actually pretty interesting to reread as this team's just getting taken away from those people. And that was almost 20 years ago at this point. So I want to say I have a team. I don't know if we need to add two more teams to make up for this egregious thing that they did almost 20 years ago. Speaking of that. [09:20] I had a really good, I was going to do a couple of mailbag questions with you, but this one [09:26] was about Durant.

[09:28] from Josh and Charlotte. I think KD going back to Seattle to finish off his career with the NBA Expands will excuse him from all his team changes throughout his career. [09:37] It would just be really cool to see KD throw a super signing jersey out again to finish it off. [09:42] I'm really mad I didn't think of this, and maybe I did and mentioned it in the past, but now that we know that Seattle expansion is probably happening unless something goofy happens, but KD coming full circle and ending in Seattle, [09:55] It's kind of the best redemption he ever could have had, right? He won the two titles with the Warriors. He doesn't really have a franchise that's, [10:02] And then it all comes around and he becomes like kind of the face of this rejuvenated Sonics thing. And he never should have let, they never should have lost him in the first place. [10:10] I really like the symmetry of it, Kyle, man. Oh, yeah. I've been eyeballing this for a while. I think when I was working on that big Kevin Durant project two or three years ago. It's a time warp. I forget how long ago that was. But that was one of the things. I was just thinking about his. When I was thinking about the arc of his and the narrative of the off-court stuff with him, I was like, that would just be a really nice mouthwash for all of it. It really would be a mouthwash. It would be like one of those fancy ones, like a $25 mouthwash you get for Christmas from somebody. [10:40] Got like a lot of alcohol in here. Like, whoa. You got fancy $25 mouthwashes for Christmas? My wife's friends will give weird, weird, yeah, those like weird bath kits or weird, weird toiletry kits. All that stuff. Yeah, I think. I'm not in the artisan mouthwash market. I'll have to become familiar with that. Might not have gotten there into the Louisville, Kentucky area yet.

[11:02] All right, a couple more. [11:05] Mike Parsons wants to know, does Danny Hurley take the Lakers job offer if he knows Luka is going to be his franchise player within seven months? [11:14] Can you imagine those two together? Oh my God. I mean, JJ's intense enough. Yeah. Danny Hurley would have quit already. I never believed that Danny Hurley, sorry. Did you? [11:24] Thank you. [11:25] No, because, I mean, it was pretty obvious what was happening. I mean, it was a pretty incredible moment where they were trying to rally UConn to be more like financially invested across the board because I think they were in financial trouble at the time. But those questions have kind of gone away. And then it just never he flirted with the Kentucky job, too. And in a way that was just like, can we just get through this? Right. Can we just get to where this is going to end up? [11:46] And then he admits it that his agent advised him to just flirt and bat his eyes at him. I mean, when they had all those young players and that was kind of the path that they were on before they just pivoted unexpectedly with the Luca thing, you could talk yourself into it. It was like, this guy is, he's elevated every player that's played for him. He just had a, he had a good thing going and he still has a good thing going, but, [12:06] Man, I just don't. [12:07] Who's the most intense coach in the league that knows that the backstop behind them is so solid that they can really, really get on guys? I mean, it's Missoula. I'm trying to think of the other guy. I mean, Spolstra will just like – because he knows that he has the top-down support. Yeah, Spolstra doesn't count. He can do whatever he wants because he's like an institution there. Missoula's probably – [12:28] The one that it could go sideways if he handled it wrong, but I think he handles it really well. I think JJ's up there.

[12:35] JJ will lay into those guys and get pissed off during games and, you know, treat them like adults. [12:40] But that's like when you watch college and I think, [12:42] This year especially, and this has been such a good tournament, so much fun to watch and so many storylines. [12:48] But there's some... [12:49] real major personality coaches in this, none of whom would ever succeed in a million years as NBA coaches. [12:56] Like, can you imagine Mick Cronin? [12:58] Oh my God. Coaching like Minnesota Timberwolves or something like there's no chance. Even Patino. We saw it fail with Patino. We saw it fail with Calipari. It's just a different kind of breed. So I don't think Curly's style would work. I never thought it would work. Thought it would have been a huge mistake. Yeah. Yeah. [13:16] I agree. [13:18] So, [13:20] All right, here's a couple more. I had the... [13:22] Talked about the wait what moments of the 21st century, the Luca trade, Bams 83, and Malice in the Palace. [13:28] Couldn't really come up with the fourth one. [13:31] And David from Portland says there's a clear fourth, the Thunder Jazz game getting postponed in March 2020 when Rudy got COVID-19. [13:39] This was the oh shit moment for us basketball obsessed mouth breathers that made the pandemic real. [13:45] Mouth breather is a really good choice of words there. Yeah. That's a really good one. And I think it's been lost in history. [13:51] Because COVID in general, and I barely remember anything from those first four months of COVID. [13:57] But that specific day of like, I remember going into my old house, going back to watch the [14:04] basketball and putting it on and it just was clear the game might not happen.

[14:09] And just the tech started and you go on Twitter and it was like, [14:15] Oh, man. [14:16] we're really doing this now we've been circling in for two but now this is now happening but yeah I think that would be a worthy fourth [14:24] it feels that day i can kind of replay in my mind and like the day before in a way that kind of i feel like we're gonna get i don't know if we would ever do it from the sports angle but i mean it was the i guess it's the oj doc the 30 for 30 right where they went through chronologically in the day yeah i feel like that day could could i don't want to watch that because for the reason that you were just talking about was just like anytime i think about it i just want to yeah fucking vomit um yeah i mean my wife was pregnant like when that happened was getting ready to have a kid so all that [14:54] Like, yeah, that was that was a dramatic time. But I specifically have a memory of I went to this is pretty funny. I perchance just got to go to a Calipari fantasy experience. This is a friend of mine. I did not buy tickets before people start laughing. I just like he texted me the morning. But I remember we were I was talking with all these people I didn't know. And I remember we were in we were hanging out in this hotel bar and this guy was just talking my ear off about COVID. And I was like not taking it seriously at the time. And he was trying to wait hand wave it away. [15:24] He was like, bird flu disappeared. And he just rattled them off. And I can hear this guy's voice just reverberating in my head where he was just like, COVID, it's going to go away. Just like all those. And it was just kind of like one of those famous rippling moments of just like, man, I wish he had been right about that. Oh, man.

[15:43] John from Seattle, [15:44] was talking about SGA streak of scoring 20 points. [15:48] 130 games right now. You like that streak? Ambivalent? [15:53] Sort of like it. Where do you stand? [15:54] All the like counting stat things these days, it's kind of like it feels like it requires another pass through to like get context just because the volume is so much higher across the board, you know? And it's like even when I hear the when I hear the counting stat things like with KD passing each other or passing. I don't you remember that staff meeting we had a few years ago where they were talking about LeBron was getting ready to pass the scoring title. And I just kind of murmured some backhanded comment about Kareem never shot threes and played four years of college. [16:24] Okay. [16:25] It's so hard at face value to take it just as is. I just think that's my thing. If I hear them, I don't get as riled. I like to swoop in and see. Unless it's something that just... [16:38] They put the context in it for you when you hear it initially. Well, I remember writing about this in my book. Sometimes with these streaks or records, it's almost unfair to, [16:47] to the eras or the decades when people didn't know this was going to matter. [16:52] 'Cause... [16:53] The 70 wins when the Bulls got to... [16:57] 72-10 and the Warriors beat them. Nobody thought about [17:01] wins like that really until the 1967 Sixers. [17:06] When I think they went 68-13, it was the first time a record was a big deal. And then we had the streak with the Lakers, and the Lakers beat them, and I think that went 69-13. But all those Russell Celtics teams –

[17:19] they're just trying to survive the season, right? They're playing like six games and seven nights, like, [17:23] Nobody ever said, like, man, you should try to get 65 wins or whatever. It's just – [17:29] They didn't think that way. So when I think about this 20 points... [17:33] in 130 games or whatever, [17:34] will. [17:35] who is the most number-obsessed guy out of any superstar in the history of the league. [17:40] who literally led the league in assists one year just to prove that he wasn't unselfish and was passing up layups so he could hand the ball. He was just a maniac with this stuff. [17:51] If he had known this was a streak, he just would have done it for like 500 games in a row. I just... [17:56] I just think he would have been like, whoa, this is the thing. And he just would have kept doing it. So I don't know. Anyway. [18:02] John from Seattle brought up the streak and he said, he thinks Mike Conley's streak of not getting called for a technical foul. [18:09] is more incredible than the Shea streak. It's over 1,200 games. [18:13] Without a technical foul, 19 seasons. [18:16] What happens in his last game? Does he just crash out and get ejected? Or does he try to throw a perfect game? [18:23] and just never get a tech to go. I got to be honest, I forgot that this was a streak that existed. I did not know. This is an incredible... Why aren't we talking about this? Mike Conley, passing the 1200 mark. [18:36] Do you think you're just not doing your due diligence as a person standing up for yourself if you don't get at least one? Is it an indictment or is it a credit? Are you like a pushover? But Conley, I love Conley. It's just like I don't really know what to make of that. Who's in the top ten for that stat? I don't know. I only know the other way where it's like the most technicals in a year.

[18:58] Rasheed had over 40 one year, I think. Draymond's probably moving toward the career leaders. But yeah, I would love to know more about the Conley streak and whether he cares about it. [19:08] All right. Next one is, this is a great one. Conspiracy Bill really loved this. [19:14] Really jealous. I didn't think of this from Kyle Taylor. [19:17] The Pacers... [19:19] Have a top four protected draft pick, thanks to that Zubach trade. If the pick is 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, it goes to the Clippers. [19:28] Thank you. [19:29] This is Kyle Taylor. [19:31] This basically proves they know the lottery is rigged. [19:34] They just forced Adam Silver's hand... [19:37] Do you really think Adam Silver is going to let the Clippers get a pick in the 5-9 range this year with all the aspiration stuff looming? [19:44] Conspiracy Bell wonders if this came up when they were trying to make the Zubats trade with the protections. [19:51] If anyone in the Pacers office was like, [19:54] Hmm. You think there's any world we don't get a top four pick if five through nine would go to the Clippers and make them better with all this other stuff going on? I don't know. I really like that one. Obviously, it's ridiculous, but it's like a classic conspiracy one. There's just enough there. I was like, oh, all right. Sounds like a really good episode of Wait a Second coming up. That would be a good thing. I'll get Concepcion on it. Pretty funny. That's a two-part or inevitable

[20:24] I mentioned this email earlier from Matt in Charlottesville about [20:27] Obama did a video with Anthony Edwards to promote the presidential library in Chicago, and there was no one on the Bulls who could make it. And he asked, was this the lowest it's ever gotten for the Bulls? So I actually made a list because I didn't do this with Zach. [20:38] lowest post-Jordan Bulls moments. [20:41] you. [20:43] It's Rose getting hurt. [20:44] And the first game of the playoffs in 2012 has to be number one. [20:48] The Jay Williams motorcycle accident, Jay Williams was good. Forgotten the history, dude. Jay Williams was... [20:54] Yeah. I remember there was one game when he, he, when he went toe to toe with Jason kid, where it was like, wow, we might be really doing this with this guy. Um, [21:03] When they salary dumped Luau Dang in 2014 for Andrew Bynum and then waived him when they had like a 48 win team because it was a tax thing. That was horrible. I forgot about that one. Yeah. Booing Jerry Cross's family during the Ring of Honor night for the 96 Bulls. Uh... [21:18] really bad. And then they tanked for three years after Jordan left. [21:23] And there was no superstar in any of those drafts, 99, 2000, 2001. It was just like really bad luck. If you move those three years... [21:31] Two years ahead, now all of a sudden I'm at least with LeBron and Dwight Howard and might get a franchise guy. [21:38] So that would be my top five, other than that they're cheap and they never pay the luxury tax. [21:43] really seem to pay money for a front office and just do dumb things. [21:47] The 44 point game, wasn't it 44? Wasn't that the lowest point total game they had? I think that was in 99 when they only scored. I think it was 44 points, like the all-time record. I don't remember that. Jesus. I think that was right after Jordan. But yeah, you're right. I mean, those like falling during that time. There was like a...

[22:06] There's a convergence of a lot of kind of things that suck for them right there. I mean, you're in the heat of the Shaq era where teams are just trying to, like, load up. We had a lot of overlapping things that I think hurt the skill level in the league where teams were, like, really overdrafting to kind of get bodies to play Shaq. And then there was the high schooler thing going on. So you had the Kwamis and the Tyson Chandlers and the Eddie Currys. And it's like Tyson ended up being a good player, but Eddie had all kinds of problems. Yeah, Johnson's better was a bad one. So that was tough because they had a lot of high picks during that time. [22:36] Yeah. [22:37] Two great draft questions for you. [22:39] From Brian Noakes, hypothetically, would you rather have Wemby or the top two picks in this draft? [22:44] I mean, Wemby by far. Here's a better question. [22:48] Wemby are the top three picks in this draft. I'd still take Wemby. Wemby. He's on a GOAT arc. You take the GOAT arc. Wemby are the top four picks of the draft. [22:58] I get all of them. I could have... [23:00] I can even have Caleb Wilson. [23:03] I still would take Wemby. [23:07] Peterson, Boozer, DeBonsa, and we'll say Wilson. What kind of a core is that? If you took that four and compared that to the cores in the rest of the league that we really like, I'm trying to think where would that rank? I mean, it'd be up there. I mean, that would be the best. [23:24] That might be the best young core Aside from the Spurs, I'm trying to think of the other ones [23:29] Well, the answer is... [23:31] the top five picks of this draft. [23:34] Now you have my attention Because now I can have

[23:38] Peterson and Acuff. [23:40] I could have Caleb Wilson. [23:42] the banter, [23:43] And Boozer. I just have an entire starting five for Wemby. Now I'm thinking about it. [23:48] I don't know, man. I mean, the only thing that could creep in is you're just like, all right, there is a little voice in the room that's like Wimby's. The 7-7 guy might get hurt. You never know. Yeah. Yeah, because we were doing the redraft for the past few drafts. And I just, as an exercise, ran them through this rubric that I've been doing lately where I just say, are they a ski hunt them in switches? Do they fit this play style? Are they a spacer? Are they a rim protector? [24:18] and I was going through every other, and I was just like, I can't shoulder shrugging it, but I was like, the one thing that I have in there is volatility rating, and I was like, [24:26] Wimby can't have a perfect volatility rating because... [24:30] Everywhere else is good. But it's like there is that little sneaky thing of like you were saying, it's just like durability. You know, he's already encountered some of that. That'd be the only thing, man, because like otherwise... [24:40] Wimby just Wimby's impact is just it's been it's been belabored at this point, but it's it's unbelievable. [24:46] Thank you. [24:47] Another Spurs question. Elliot Gold wants to know, [24:51] He said he hasn't heard anyone talk about this. And I know we haven't talked about it on the pod. [24:55] If San Antonio could do it over again, would they take Khan... [24:59] Or Vijay. I don't think Vijay is in the conversation over Dylan Harper knowing what they know now. [25:04] So the question for me would be, Conn, [25:07] Because they have Fox and Castle as two ball handlers. And then you're just adding this incredible shooter and guy who knows how to play with or without the ball.

[25:16] I think they would run it back with Harper. [25:19] And I think Harper's that special. But I also don't think they probably thought Khan was going to be this good right away. [25:25] But I think Harper... [25:27] with Wemby, I think, is slightly more interesting. Like this incredible physical inside-outside guard who's going to be able to learn how to shoot threes soon and... [25:38] I think that's where you'd want to be with Castle. [25:40] If that's about those three, I think I like that three more than Castle Con and Wemby, but slightly. [25:46] Right? Yeah. [25:48] I mean, it's a no-lose, obviously. I mean, you're going to – Con would help them. I remember in the early mocks, I had Con getting drafted, like, picked to the Spurs. And I talked myself out of it because I was just like, they just don't really go with guys like that. They love to go with the big, switchy, physical, athletic guys. And they're like, the skill stuff we think will come around. Yeah, man. I mean, I think Dylan has a chance to be like a first-team All-NBA guy. I mean, he could flirt with – he's a two-way player. You know, gets just – yeah, he's a special guy, special talent. [26:17] Thank you. [26:18] I get this email a lot. This one's from... [26:20] Ian W., would you ever consider becoming the GM of the Holy Cross basketball team, especially with Dame Lillard running Weber State? Feuding with Woj. Curry's assistant GM of Davidson. Woj. I would... [26:31] I would not do that because I would get too into it. I think it would ruin all the other stuff I'm doing. I would just become obsessed with trying to find guys. It sounds like a tap a little bit to Woosh too. But no, thank you. I would not want to be in the NIL world.

[26:47] Uh, I think one, one year, one year and we film it. You wouldn't do it. I think that's the only way you would do it. If it's like a documentary in a book and you're, uh, [26:56] Because Holy Cross would be the team to do it because there's no reason they couldn't beat Gonzaga in the East. [27:02] They really could. There's a New England school that should be awesome, that should just be cherry-picking awesome New England kids every year, and has a killer coach, and [27:12] you know, good education, but you're just like the school in New England. It doesn't exist. [27:17] You don't count St. John's? No, I'm saying going from past Connecticut, you're talking about Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Massachusetts. [27:26] Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, basically. That part of the country. But really Massachusetts. Where it would be conceivable to build a powerhouse up so DeBansa could be [27:39] be like, I know BYU is paying me, but I've always dreamed of playing here and playing at home and [27:45] That doesn't really exist. [27:46] Um, I'd love to see it. Uh, [27:51] Did you watch The White Shadow? [27:53] No, I never. I'm going to save this one. [27:56] core curriculum, but I haven't. All right. I'll end with one goofy one from Ethan from Houston. [28:01] If the Paul George suspension is actually helping the Sixers avoid the luxury tax, is the next logical step for the Kings to plant something in Zach Levine's suitcase that's not a good idea? [28:09] Um, [28:10] Obviously, no team would do this. I was thinking, no. Plan something? Well, listen, if there was like a Landman type show for the NBA, like a completely insane show where crazy stuff happened, this would be a season one kind of cliffhanger plot, right? Right.

[28:27] where the GM's like, we got to get under the salary cap. What are we going to do? And people start looking at each other. It's like, we got to put something in a suitcase. We got to, this is what we got. [28:37] Because that would happen on like a Paramount show. [28:41] Yeah. Or I was going to say the industry guy who gets him back to the apartment and keeps turning the stereo up and calls the cops. The industry slash Paramount version of an NBA show. I think that actually would happen. All right. [28:53] We're going to take a break and then we're going to talk college. [28:56] This episode is brought to you by State Farm. [28:59] Upsets, buzzer beaters, game-changing plays, what happens on the court keeps us [29:04] on our toes. And life isn't any different. [29:07] That's where State Farm comes in. [29:09] With over 19,000 neighborhood agents for when you want to talk to a real person and easy to use digital tools, State Farm is there to help when facing... [29:17] the unpredictable, because in life's uncertain moments, big or small, [29:22] You need to know someone is ready to assist. [29:25] Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. [29:28] with the assist. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability amount of discounts and savings and eligibility. [29:36] Vary by state. [29:38] All right, March Madness. [29:40] You love it, Kyle, man. [29:42] It was a really good first weekend with, with, [29:45] A lot of chalk. [29:47] But also, it checked all my boxes because I got to watch some good players. I got some terrible coaching like always. [29:55] Bill Self, who's become, I think, my least favorite college coach for some. No rational reason for it. I just, for some reason, he annoys me. They blew it again.

[30:03] And we have some great games, including... [30:06] This weekend where we have Arkansas versus Arizona. [30:10] We have Illinois versus Houston. [30:12] We have St. John's versus Duke and we have Bama versus Michigan. I, I, [30:16] Honestly, I think those are four must-watch games. Like, even if you're an NBA fan, you're not really watching college. [30:21] Those four are like awesome games. And in general... [30:25] I feel like the level of basketball is just... [30:28] higher than it used to be. And we've, we talked about that with Tate on Sunday, that we have better guards, we just have more talent. What's your favorite out of those four games? What are the one that, what's the one that you can't wait for? [30:39] That is really hard to pick. I was going to say that D.C. Regional is going to be incredible with UConn and Michigan State and then Duke and St. John's. I mean, the narratives in Duke St. John's are so great. I mean, Patino talking about, you know, redemption for the Leitner shot. Granted, Patino's played Duke. [30:55] in the tournament before on their way to their 2013 title. I mean... [30:59] The two that jumped to me... [31:00] Arizona-Arkansas, I think, is going to be very fun and athletic. I can't wait. [31:04] It's going to be very fun. You want to start there? [31:08] You think Burries is going to guard Acuff? [31:12] Yeah, I do. I think that's going to be... [31:15] I can't remember an actual draft pick spot. [31:19] Being on the line for a game. Because as I told you over and over again, I think those are the two choices for five. I felt that way for... [31:28] weeks. And I actually would give a slight edge to Burris just because I think it's harder [31:33] to find guys like that. And there's this point is such a point guard draft that a lot of teams already have a point guard.

[31:39] Burry's just like [31:41] You just know what he is. And even I liked what he did over the weekend. It was five for seven. He made the biggest shot of the game. [31:49] But him trying to guard Acuff is going to tell us a lot. [31:52] And then Acuff, who's on just a fucking heater at this point, um... [31:56] Trying to navigate that, knowing that a team's going to have five days to think about how to stop him. I can't. [32:02] I can't wait for that game. [32:03] Yeah, Acuff versus, I think the narrative for that game is going to be, just through the draft lens, I mean, Acuff versus Arizona's length is going to be the story. Because Arizona has a lot of size and strength. Arkansas is explosive and long and lanky, but they're not as beefy as Arizona. They have Krivas, who's like 7'2". He's gigantic. Koa Pete, who's probably a first-rounder. Tobey Owaka is another guy who's a big, strong dude. I think that's going to be the thing to watch. [32:33] Watch for... [32:35] you know, [32:36] His finishing is the thing that I'm going to be looking for him in the paint, because I looked at the teams. I kind of cherry picked it. I mean, they played a great schedule this year. They played a lot of teams with a lot of size, but I filtered for half court finishes at the rim. Um, [32:49] And he had a hard time on synergy. It was like 34.8% at the rim. So I want to see him use his left hand in the pain. I want to see him draw contact, get the line, those kinds of things. Cause when he plays against bigger players, he kind of has a tendency to just kind of like, you know, pray and throw it over the top of them as opposed to like, he's not super creative. But like we talked about, he has all those other pluses that's like, you're nitpicking him, you know, it's like, and I, and I think that's the basis for critiquing whether or not he can be a star is like, he's got to get that paint production up. I think,

[33:19] to validate that side of the argument. But man, he's just such a great game manager, shoots the shit out of the ball. It's going to be a really fun matchup. Yeah, I've noticed the rim stuff too. And that's where, because he really does remind me of Kyrie with a lot of the stuff he does. [33:33] The one part where it falls apart is... [33:36] Kyrie would have that double clutch ability and that bang off. And he would always finish with a good shot. A-Cup sometimes doesn't. [33:43] But I also feel like [33:46] He's been at the same college for less than a year. He's got Calipari as his coach. [33:51] They kind of fall into ruts with him where he's just like driving right every time and you kind of know it's coming. [33:56] They don't mix it up and have them getting the ball in different spots. A lot of times it's just [34:02] He's just driving right. And then teams will overplay him, and then he'll cross over and try to get a little floater. [34:08] I feel like there's more there is my point. I don't, I think when you do put him on a really smart team and they'll be like, look, [34:15] This is what happens when you do this. [34:17] this is what we think you should do instead of this. Like the sky's the limit. And then the defense stuff, I just don't worry about with him. Like, did we talk about Kyrie's defense when he was coming in the league? Like we, I worry about the defense. It's not going to be great, but, [34:33] You can win with guys who are elite offensive guys who aren't that good on defense. We've seen it. [34:40] Yeah, they've got to be pretty special. It's tough, man. But I think he's pretty special is my point. [34:45] Yeah. That can't be the reason not to take them fifth. [34:49] I think it's more a worry of how spectacular offensively you take the rim stuff like I'm talking about, because I think that is going to be an issue if people can run them off the line. I just...

[35:02] I'm not as ready to buy into the superstar talk and go as crazy as some of the other people are right now. I find myself on the little more pessimistic side of that because of the things we talk about. And if you add, you've got to build around protecting him defensively. Granted, like we were talking about on the last episode, I think he's going to scale into a different type of role in the NBA. Because on this Arkansas team, man, he's making the food for everybody. And nobody's making food for him. He's just making all the meals. And it's like there's nothing easy. [35:32] play where it comes to him and he bangs a three or whatever it is. But I think in an NBA offense where he's given more like catch and shoot things, he'll have a lot of opportunities to produce. I'm just like him driving a team as the star. I think there's just a lot of kind of outlying questions, outstanding balance on that conversation for me. I'm glad you made that point. [35:52] Because I think he does so much offensively for this team. You have to factor that in the defense. [35:57] And if your life's easier, it's a little easier to be a two-way guy. Listen, he... [36:02] He could look really bad in this Arizona game. This is the right kind of team. [36:06] I think to just throw... [36:08] multiple waves of defenders on him, scout him the right way. And he could, this could be like a six for 21. [36:15] On the other hand, [36:17] He's a pretty special player. And this could be a case of like, despite how good this Arizona team is, [36:23] he just goes on another heater. I don't know. The stuff he's doing as a freshman... [36:29] which doesn't have a lot of parallel in the history of the tournament.

[36:33] They were saying like Fox was the last guy who had points like this. [36:37] And to me, like worst case scenario, he's in that Fox Garland range as a pro. [36:42] where, [36:43] I think he could be as good as Darius Garland, and that's maybe where... [36:48] kind of where the floor is. [36:50] Right. Yeah. [36:52] I like Darius Garland. That's a really good outcome for the sixth pick in the draft. [36:58] Yeah, absolutely. And those guys end up being it's like the conversation kind of flows the same way where we're like, OK, this guy's probably the center of a team. And you think about the warts coming in a lot of time. I mean, those guys end up going to teams that don't have it going like the Cavs at the time, the Kings at the time and this time and any time, obviously. But they get a chance to have their own team and they do have like a lot of production and output and everything. [37:28] okay, you're a really good player, but we can't live or die with your ability to sort of like feed everybody all the time and be efficient. And we protect you on defense and things like that. I think you're right about that in terms of what type of what type of player he's going to be. I mean, like that. So I'm higher on him than you are. [37:44] I would say you're a little higher than me. And I think I'm just in general in the overall conversation, I find myself being a little more worried than other people are about some of these things. But you're talking about the loser leads town thing. I'm... [37:57] The Fox Alonzo thing was the last... That was... [38:00] That was one of the better ones we've ever had, right? It's a great one. And an awesome game, too. Like an actual memorable March Madness game. Yeah, I worry about the finishing stuff a little bit with him, too.

[38:11] And I worry about that more than the defense, just because I saw the same thing you did that [38:16] It's it sometimes looks bad and predictable. And like we were watching with Scoot right now. [38:23] The scoots, as good of an athlete as he is, his finishing just isn't good enough. And I thought he was going to be better as a pro, just being like this Derrick Rose type. But the difference between Rose, Westbrook, pick a guy who was awesome in the pros was they were able to finish at the rim. I mean, going way back, this was the Bassey Telfair thing. [38:41] He's like, that's the Telfair. Whoa, look at him. And then it's like, yeah, this guy has no chance when he's driving the basket. This is not happening. I don't think A-Cup's going to do that. But Arizona will be a good test. [38:53] So Bama, Michigan... [38:56] Oh, man, yeah. [38:57] This is where our guide, this could be. First of all, I think Bama could absolutely win this game. [39:01] They're 11-1 to make the Final Four. I think that's the best bet of all these calls. I don't know if it'll happen. [39:08] But I know the odds are better than 11-1. They could win two games in a row and make the Final Four. [39:13] And, [39:13] Our guy, the lost guard in this draft, who might end up falling to 20 and being awesome. This is going to be a really good stage for him. [39:21] Yeah, I've been such a fan of LeBaron Phylon for such a long time. I got to see him play in a showcase near my house for the first time, and that was kind of when the hearts over the eyes kind of popped out. You were texting about him in like November. I was going to say of like 2023, maybe. He's a winner, man. We were talking about Mike Conley earlier. He has a lot of MF in him, but he's not as passive as Conley, but he has a lot of the adhesive kind of things that fall between the wrinkles of a team,

[39:51] He just makes things work. He's a little bigger than I think people realize. He's like 6'3.5", 6'4". He's a lot lower and slinkier than Acuff. He's not as solidly built, but he's improved his shooting. He's very, very clever. He has like rondo-y kind of qualities at times to me, where he just picks his spots really well. Good passer. You would have had, I need to send you this clip. He had a touch pass assist off of a rebound, [40:21] to one of his teammates extended. And I remember thinking, I was like, yeah, that was a 1 million percent of Larry Bird. Oh my God, I would have loved it. [40:29] The problem with it is like Michigan just chokes people out. They just get you in a headlock. I get it. And then you make mistakes. Yeah, it's going to be tough. Well, you have them 12th on your big board right now. [40:40] Which, where do we have no idea? He definitely moved up, right? Wasn't he in the teens? [40:46] From from win to win. That was that's the first outing. So he hasn't moved this year. He was on our board last year. Really high, actually. I don't remember. I'm looking at the thing now because Amens 14 now. [40:56] And I'm just, I'm betting on Phylon over AIM at 100 times out of 100. Just, I'll do respect to AIM on, but... [41:04] Amen. But, uh, yeah. [41:06] I just, there's, come on. [41:08] The Iowa State [41:12] Iowa State's going to be a test for eight minutes. [41:14] He's been dealing with right leg soreness. But... [41:18] I don't think that forgives some of the things that have been rough all year. It's just a lot of hypotheticals with him. And he's a get a GM fired kind of lottery pick.

[41:28] It's scary. It's scary. Yeah, like Iowa State turns people over and they pressure. And if he has a good showing against them, I mean, that's kind of... [41:34] You don't want to go too far of like somebody has a good game and you draft them based on that. But I don't know. With this one, if he has a good outing against them and shows some toughness, I don't know if it's going to swing me dramatically. But I want to see. Outside the lottery, I see it. Once we move into the top 12, I'm just not seeing it at that point. [41:53] Is it weird that I feel like Michigan is by far the most vulnerable out of these four [41:59] We got Duke, we have Arizona, we have Houston, we have Arizona. [42:05] Michigan like that added like the super teams. [42:08] Something about Michigan makes me feel like somebody could get them. [42:12] And I don't know what it is. [42:14] I don't know, man. Seems like you're higher than the Ming. [42:18] They weren't playing well, and they've really gotten a lot of stuff together. Yaxel's playing incredible. I mean, they beat a scrappy St. Louis team. We'll see. I mean, once the teams can kind of like throw punches with them size-wise, Alabama can't do that. They only play one guy who's like 6'10", and he's kind of beefy. So you think they could just get overpowered. That would be the fear with that game. [42:40] Yeah, I think they just try. I mean, their center's seven foot three. Morris Johnson's another guy that I think you would like. He's a real Isaiah Stewart type energy, muscular. And then Yaxle plays the three. And they're gigantic, man. So- [42:54] Then we have Illinois-Houston. [42:56] which is another crazy draft battle. Those are two guys that,

[43:00] are going to be somewhere between five and nine, the guards on those teams. Fleming's people are cooling off on a tiny bit, it feels like. [43:07] But we get to see them go against each other. [43:10] And that's the bracket. Like Houston's the favorite in that bracket and they're plus one 10. [43:15] So that's the bracket that it seems like people feel like anybody could take. But do you have a strong feeling on either of those teams? Anything you like? [43:24] I think any other year, I mean, sort of the pedigree and the style that Houston plays year to year is like big physical. Their bigs aren't as good this year. So this is a really interesting juxtaposition of two teams here where Illinois is very finesse. A lot of Europeans on their team, a lot of skilled guys. They have this guy, Mirkovic, that I think you would really like for them. He's just this beefy four who can kind of score from all over. But for Wagler in particular, this is going to challenge him in some areas that are key to kind of like how you see his value. [43:54] deals with the physicality of those guards of Emmanuel Sharp of Milos using and of Kingston. Um, [44:00] it'll, I think it's going to color the way people feel about him. If he comes out and plays great, um, [44:06] It's going to help him a lot, I think. Yeah. [44:09] Well, then we have St. John's Duke. [44:13] Why doesn't Boozer shoot that 12 footer? [44:15] I knew you were going to ask me that. I haven't texted that to you, I don't think, either. Yeah, you did. You were complaining to me and Tate about it. You were like, good-looking the pros. Yeah, yeah. Boozer, that drives me crazy. I mean, I know, I guess he can add it, but... [44:28] I've never seen...

[44:30] I've never seen anybody take an open 12-footer and try to turn it into a layup. [44:36] into two guys more than that dude. [44:38] Thank you. [44:39] It doesn't seem to me like he has his... [44:42] What you need in the NBA, like that little, like, I always have this foul line jumper. You know, it's a lot of like stuff in traffic that he can do because he's playing against younger guys. [44:51] Thank you. [44:53] I might have him three. [44:55] Really? Okay. [44:57] I'm still two. [44:58] You have him too? You have Peterson 3? [45:01] You've petered some wine. Yeah. [45:04] Good luck with that one. [45:06] I'm out. [45:08] You're totally out? You wouldn't touch him? I did this a couple weeks ago, and even what the band said to me, it has to be number one. [45:16] This would be crazy if he doesn't go number one. I'll be just stupefied by this. [45:23] I think that Peterson is a vastly more talented player. [45:28] shot maker, [45:29] I think he's going to be a better playmaker. [45:32] I think he's a more explosive athlete when he's healthy. [45:36] Um, [45:36] I'm a believer. I mean, that's the big argument that's going on in the nerd world versus like when you say when he's healthy. [45:43] We watched this guy scooting around screens, trying to two-hand block layups two feet over the rim. And he looked... [45:52] Plenty healthy to me. [45:53] I just think he comes and goes during games. [45:57] And I didn't see any leadership from him at all.

[46:01] And granted, I get it. He's the Kawhi. He's just the silent assassin. I get it. Those guys have succeeded. [46:07] But, [46:08] I don't know. I watched him a bunch these last two months and [46:12] Um, [46:13] I see it on paper. [46:16] I see the case. [46:17] But I saw some stuff that really worried me. And I don't think it gets better at the next level. And I don't think he looks like he did in the high school tapes last year. [46:25] That's a big argument going on right now. Like I was going to say, like the people who the people who watched him coming up, like the grassroots people who were really invested in it, they in it introduces all these counterpoints where people are just like, well, yeah, he's playing against better athletes now. And it's like he only played against great competition. It wasn't like he was playing against like, you know, little sisters of the poor kind of schools. [46:55] probably didn't help. It's probably hard for him to be the leader when he's been in and out and the way things have gone and how he fits into their offense. [47:04] It's not that I don't like DeBansa. It's just I think that Peterson's separator skills are really, really special. I'm not going to come off that. I could be wrong. But if this was your job, you're the GM of a team and if you mess this decision up, you're never going to have a GM job again. [47:23] I don't think you're taking Peterson. [47:25] I think it's too risky. [47:27] You could talk yourself on all the pluses, but I just think ultimately you're going to be like, Depensa is going to be awesome.

[47:33] Like he's just, the guy's a beast. [47:37] There's no way he's not going to be good. You're going to pass him up and keep your fingers crossed. The other thing with Peterson, I'm glad you brought up like the... [47:44] So how he's quiet and blah, blah, blah. [47:48] Kawhi was really quiet and the Kawhi thing worked. Well, where did Kawhi go? He went to the Spurs. [47:54] like you're basically in witness protection when you go with them because nobody, they have that whole family. When he was there, they had that whole family atmosphere. They had Duncan, they had Ginobili, they had, [48:04] Parker, they had Pop. He didn't have to have a personality. And he kind of had five years to grow into it. [48:10] But we still didn't know what his personality was. [48:12] But it blows up there, it goes to Toronto. [48:15] He's like a hired gun. [48:17] Didn't need to have a personality. They had Van Vliet, Kyle Lowry. They had all these big Nick Nurse. [48:23] goes to the Clippers and we've seen it kind of come and go. [48:26] Now he's a veteran respected. [48:28] But I just wonder if you're a rookie coming in the league with huge expectations and you have the personality Peterson has, you're going to like Brooklyn. [48:36] Or I don't know, the wizards. And people are like, this is our savior. [48:42] And he's just doing this stuff game to game that we watched him do the last two months. I don't think it's going to go well. [48:49] Do you think your leader has to be your best player? [48:52] I don't have an answer. I'm just curious what you think. I don't think it has to be your best player. I think there's a responsibility that comes with being the guy that we've seen people either sink or swim with. And we saw LaMelo struggle with it for years. Like he couldn't figure it out. Right. And for that is for different reasons.

[49:08] And it was finally they had to put the right kind of people around him. And he got matured, obviously, a little bit. [49:14] but I just think fits so much so like if Peterson went to Indiana I think that would be great I could see them taking him first that would make sense to me [49:24] But if we're talking like a shitty team, I'd get really nervous with that. I'd rather have DeBansa. [49:28] I think if you were going to [49:30] I mean, I'm definitely leaning towards the basketball things working. And I think that [49:35] where you can throw some doubt in there, I think that's legitimate, is what you're saying. I mean, like the moment that Kawhi got away from that accountability and structure, it was like that's when, granted, the injury started and caused it. But do you hear a lot of complaints about, you know, in Toronto? It's like, was he the leader of the Toronto team? I don't know. I'm sure somebody will hit me up and let me know. But it doesn't. Yeah. Well, the other thing with Peterson is it seemed like he was very well-liked by everybody, right? We never heard... [50:02] It's in my teammates like I'm coaching. Everybody spoke highly of him. They seem to think that he probably wasn't completely healthy the first part of the year. [50:10] I just didn't think he showed enough... [50:12] Other than flashes and potential, [50:15] But he seemed healthy to me is where I kind of disagree with people down the stretch. I just thought the stuff he was doing athletically was... [50:24] Pretty high level. [50:25] And he's just kind of floating out of these games. And I did... [50:29] Made me nervous, but I do... [50:31] I would take him over Boozer. [50:33] Caleb Wilson's the wild card for me. Like that's the one I've become more and more fascinated by as I watch because I just know what he is.

[50:40] I like when guys come in the league. It's like, I know exactly what you are. [50:44] And I know how it's going to work. And I know you're going to put on 20 pounds of muscle. [50:49] And I just know what this is. And he'll end up going fourth and it'll be a great pick. [50:54] Right. I wouldn't take them ahead of Peterson. [50:57] Right. [50:58] But Peter Peterson's the one that gets you fired. [51:02] It's risky. I mean, just to quickly get the... [51:07] You're saying that he was doing high-level athletic stuff. To me, and this argument, I think, is one of the major hinge points in the whole draft. Our eyes, what we're seeing is you saw that as high-level, and I'm saying I know what I've seen. You think there's another level beyond that? I'm just kind of like, can I be disabused of like, did I see what I saw? I think so. It's like Zion playing defense in college. I was just like, great defensive upside. I think that's more of a choice thing on his part. [51:37] With the [51:38] With Wilson taking it to that, I mean, I think defensive upside in like the top four, [51:43] I don't really feel like there's much question. I mean, I think that he has the potential to be like a special defender. And I think if you thread that needle and you say, if the offensive outcomes in there is, there's any weirdness, like let's say that Boozer bumps his head on like what he's able to expand and do. And it's like, yeah, is he a superstar? No, he's like a fulcrum that adds to good offense. And then Peter. Yeah. And then the Banta, maybe we'll say he's more of a DeRozan, not super efficient from three. He's just more of like a tough shot maker. Um,

[52:11] And then Wilson's an elite defender who can like, I think he's going to shoot the ball. [52:15] you can talk yourself into it is what I'm saying. I mean, he does some things athletically built there. Like he's on another level, man. I mean, I have these freeze frames where he would jump from like the second, [52:25] Block line on the lane and then like the next frame he's like literally his head is like over the rim. He just does things athletically there that are really separator special like in among the top guys. [52:37] I'm going to create a verb here. [52:40] Not comparing to Giannis. [52:43] It's a little Giannis-y. If Giannis-y is a verb, there's some Giannis-y like freak, freak, freak athleticism with him. And that's what I mean. I don't think he's going to have the same. Giannis has got to be seven feet tall, and I think he'll probably end up being not as big as him. [53:01] But he's that special athletically. [53:06] And I do wonder if he could pass Boozer when teams are working these guys out. The thing I really like about Boozer, and you can see it in the game they played, [53:14] That Sienna game... [53:16] Um, [53:18] When it was like, holy shit, are they going to choke and... [53:20] Um, [53:22] Any close game he's in, there's a calmness to him. He's just clearly a guy who's been... [53:26] He's like a 28-year-old, like seven-year NBA veteran, but he's 19. But he's clearly just been in so many games since he was like 10 that he doesn't get nervous, doesn't get rattled. He'll make like a huge play and he doesn't even like do a fist pump. Like he's – and he's always like gathering the team. There's like some dunking stuff with him that I like. He's just even keeled.

[53:48] Super competitive and never rattled. [53:51] To speak to the... Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, that's it. [53:54] To speak to the Caleb Wilson thing, I think the body type stuff that you're talking about is pretty spot on with he has that elastic. He sits really low at a stance and then his like zero to 60 explosiveness is crazy. Not to be overly simple, but he dunks a lot. He dunks a lot. I think he was he's either close to or leading the country in dunks this year. So he gets easy stuff. The easy stuff that's accessible. [54:20] Caleb Wilson gets it. You like that. You like to start from a simple premise like that, you know, and then, um, [54:26] But he just doesn't quite handle the ball. It's just like Giannis was a special cross-section of that. It's just like he just had guard skills in terms of getting down hills. So that's kind of the difference there. Yeah, and Giannis was playing... [54:37] Even you could see in the tapes from the Greek YMCA tapes. He was handling the ball a lot even back then. [54:43] This kid is just runner, jumper, athlete. [54:46] shot blocker, dunker, finisher, [54:49] Um, but, [54:50] Could be like the best guy in the league at that stuff in five years. Who knows? It's a really good one. [54:55] And then you have all these guards. This is great. And the draft's going to get weird because when we get to 5, 6, 7, 8, [55:01] you know um [55:03] We didn't do a good enough job about talking about actual college basketball, so we'll end on this. [55:08] the Patino thing. [55:10] Because in college versus pro, pro you have the players, college, football, and basketball, [55:18] the coaches kind of become...

[55:21] the anchors of the sport in a lot of ways, the signature guys. [55:25] And it was just so funny watching him in that Duke game, basically playing all the hits. [55:31] being a huge asshole, being a motivator, being competitive. And then they get this winning... [55:37] This winning play, which was just one of the worst defensive possessions I've ever seen in my life. I still don't understand what happened. I give up a layup. [55:46] And he just kind of walked over the coach and shook his hand. [55:50] There's nobody like how compelling he is as a coach. I grew up with Bobby Knight and those guys. [55:56] He really feels like a throwback to this era when these coaches were these larger-than-life guys. So him going against Duke, I feel like he's... [56:04] He's bringing everything in this game. This will be it. This will be his one battle after another PTA movie where he's like, we're going fucking IMAX. We're doing a giant chase scene. I'm getting Del Toro. I'm getting Penn. I just think he's emptying the chamber in this game. [56:20] I've gotten it relayed to me that he is very, very confident that they have a legitimate shot to win it all. And I was just thinking about it. And I was like, I mean, this team is really, really... [56:31] I'll say all that to say... [56:34] I don't know that that's going to happen. If it does, I think it'll apply to this. What I'm going to say here is that I think he has a legitimate argument for best college coach ever. I think if you think about what he's done and where... [56:45] I mean, and that spans all levels. It was like when he was at, like, you know, Boston, I figure he was Boston University. No, he was at BU and UMass. Yeah. Yeah.

[56:53] Not UMass, but yeah, and then Providence. He goes to the Final Four at Providence. He goes to, you know, he wins at Louisville. He could, if he'd stayed at Kentucky, he would have been lockstep with Coach K. I don't think there's any question about that. And he leaves and comes back, and he wins at Iona. You know, and now he's doing this at St. John's at this stage of his career. I just think that, and then you think about the way that he was a pioneer. He was a forward thinker in terms of college, but his teams were shooting 25 threes in the mid-90s. Like, he was always ahead. [57:23] in the 90s was, he was probably, his teams did it the best out of anybody other than maybe Arkansas. Yeah. I mean, this is the stuff, like, I know when you, you probably had your, like, hooks in you years as a basketball fan. What were the, like, [57:37] the hooks in you years for you Celtics wise, like the teams that you remember, was it like, what year are we talking about? Late mid late seventies, like the moment I was going, but yeah, when I first started understanding basketball, which is probably in the, somewhere in the eighties, [57:52] But college was the best it's ever been during those times, right? And so many great athletes and so many... [57:59] lottery picks sank three, four years in college and [58:03] A lot of the coaches, I remember Guy Lewis was the Houston coach. They had the best athletes, and he was just terrible. He was an awful coach, right? So when you actually saw a good coach, it really stood out. And Patino was one of those who was like, wow, this guy's – [58:18] Honestly, Coach K was a good coach as much as we like to make fun of him. I would never begrudge him that. Coach K was a good coach. I just want to go on record.

[58:29] Dean Smith, that was always... That guy takes down here. Dean Smith, that was always a little suspect of. I think there was some shakiness with him. That Perkins, Jordan, Kenny Smith team, not [58:41] I forget where they, when they got, uh, ousted, but that was insane that that team didn't make the final four. Michael Jordan is junior year. You couldn't make the final four. Um, [58:51] Had some talent. But yeah, but the Patino, you're right. Like he's, he's definitely a one-on-one. [58:56] I wanted Holy Cross to get him when he was in career purgatory and he went to Iona. [59:01] I thought that would have been an amazing, yeah, let's ride this dude for three years. [59:05] Turned it around. He went to Greece and won. He's just a dude who has an established process. He went everywhere but Boston. [59:13] He was terrible the entire time in Boston. [59:17] He was probably... [59:19] He's probably looking at the effort era of the NBA and being like, are you fucking kidding me? Right. We're doing this now? We'd have loved coaching a team like Phoenix would have been his dream. [59:32] Devin Booker and 14 guys who just try really hard. [59:36] He would have loved that. [59:38] You're talking about him going through the game, and it's like him just playing the hits of all the things. It's like everybody that I've talked to that's played for him, it really goes on and on about how mellow he is now. Because you're talking about Bobby Knight. It's just like he absolutely was Bobby Knight, but just didn't get the same attention because I don't think he did it publicly as much. But yeah, man, I think he's got an argument for the best ever, aside from the messiness at Louisville that he had that went on. Do you think, certainly messy to say the least, do you think they have a best player in the game possibility for this game?

[1:00:09] For St. John's? Yeah. [1:00:11] I mean, if Zuby Ejiofor goes wild, I mean, he's a guy that is like a toolsy, like a team could steal him, does a lot of stuff well. I mean, he's the guy who left Kansas because Self wouldn't play him. And it was one of the all time you should. Yeah, I figured that he did a big FU game. Yeah, I mean, that's in play. Yeah, the Ejiofor is their best player. They've got some guys that can get going. He carries himself like the best player. He can't shoot threes. Yeah. [1:00:33] But, [1:00:34] There's... [1:00:35] an end of the game wherewithal to him. That I just, you just watch it and your eyes get drawn to guys when you're watching games. [1:00:43] If my wife was watching, she would just think he was the best guy in the game watching it, not knowing anybody on either team. He does pass the test. I could see him throwing some haymakers... [1:00:54] at uh [1:00:55] at Duke. And then [1:00:57] I don't know. I thought the Sienna game was significant. There's a recipe with Duke [1:01:02] where you can see them get a little discombobulated. Obviously, their point guard situation is... [1:01:07] But I think the Boozer Brothers have been great. [1:01:10] Like for where he's good, where? [1:01:12] Where we thought we were with him a couple months ago, I think that guy's... [1:01:17] It could be a first-round pick, possibly, maybe, if he came out. [1:01:21] Like late first round? I don't know if I'd go first round for him. I mean, I could see him coming back another year and playing on the team. They're going to be good again next year. But I think size-wise, yeah, St. John's has a lot to throw at them. And athleticism-wise, I mean, they've got Dylan Mitchell, who's really big and long, that they can throw at. Isaiah Evans, the big lanky movement shooter for Duke. I didn't know if your eye was. Dom A. Sarr is the other dude that I figured that you would like for Duke. I like that. He looks like a giraffe.

[1:01:51] going to be like a first round or two. They got a lot of guys. I was shocked. The guy I probably liked the most was the Boozer brother. [1:01:58] Like just for the guys that I was pleasantly surprised that I liked. I just think he, I could see him being in the NBA for like 10 years. [1:02:05] He's another one where I know what he is. He's like when Trey Jones just kept landing on teams playing 20 minutes. [1:02:11] I think he's one of those. And I do wonder if he comes out [1:02:14] If a team thinks like we'll take like the Pacers, we'll take it. [1:02:17] We'll take Cam third. [1:02:19] And then we'll get his brother in the second round and we'll bring them together. Because I do think they have something pretty... [1:02:25] you know, pretty unique. [1:02:26] But that game's going to be great. I can't wait, Kyle, man. [1:02:29] This is going to be fantastic. I can't wait to neglect my family and watch basketball all day. It's going to be. The other thing is NBA's gotten really good too because we have 10 teams that don't try. [1:02:41] And 20 teams that do, and anytime any of the 220 teams play, [1:02:45] It's like Detroit and the Lakers last night. Like, that game was really entertaining, you know? Yeah. And we have a lot of teams jacking for playoff positions. So, anyway. All right, Kyle Manning. [1:02:54] comment, don't get divorced. [1:02:56] Try to keep it together this week and say hi to everybody over there. [1:03:01] I appreciate it, man. Thanks. [1:03:04] So every Wednesday, I decided to look through the NBA slate, make an NBA parlay. The rules would be whatever I want. We were doing this because on Fandle on Wednesdays, [1:03:14] You can use a profit boost token and increase your potential winnings before you place your bet. [1:03:18] But it is. [1:03:20] It is baseball season.

[1:03:21] this week and [1:03:23] Uh, we're kicking off opening day, obviously, uh, love having baseball back. And, uh, me and Sal and house and hench, we did a little over under wins parlay. I want to tell you about for the season kicks off where we have, uh, [1:03:36] The Athletics have to win 70 plus games. The Red Sox have to win 80 plus games. The Mariners have to win 90 plus games. [1:03:43] And last but not least, the big one, the Orioles. [1:03:46] 90 plus games. This is our sleeper team to be a real contender in the American League. [1:03:51] So you throw all those together as a four-team futures parlay, and it's plus 732. [1:03:58] So, [1:03:59] I'm foregoing my NBA bet this week. [1:04:02] And I'm recommending that as my future. We'll bring back the NBA next week, but it will be, it'll be, maybe they'll even put it up on the sports book app. Either way, don't forget to use the profit boost token. [1:04:13] for your NBA bets on Wednesday. [1:04:15] FanDuel, play your game. [1:04:17] Did you know about one in three people with plaque psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? [1:04:26] Does this sound like you? [1:04:29] Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away.

[1:04:59] Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. [1:05:05] Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimphaya, including important safety information. [1:05:18] This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. [1:05:20] Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. [1:05:27] New Whole Foods Market Peach Apricot Rose Italian Soda. [1:05:31] Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango yuzu chantilly cake. [1:05:38] But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sales signs store-wide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. [1:05:51] Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. [1:05:58] This episode is brought to you by Fox One. Watch all 104 matches of the FIFA World Cup live in 4K for just $19.99 a month with three days free. Build your own multi-view, choose up to three streams, and follow player spotlights. Stay on top of every moment with live stats, highlights, and instant replays. The FIFA World Cup, streaming live on Fox One, offers a subject to change. See fox.com for complete terms and conditions. [1:06:26] All right, Todd McShay is here. You can listen and watch The McShay Show, which is now on Netflix as well, or you can watch his video on Spotify. We launched, tell the audience what you launched this week. This is pretty exciting.

[1:06:40] I'm pumped, man. And I appreciate your support. I've told you that privately, but I also want to share it publicly. The fact that I came to you, I don't know, eight months ago and said, there's this project I want to do. We kind of mentioned I fueled the draft tracker for ESPN for a long time. And I always thought it was it was a good product, but we could do it better. And we're kind of in phase one of what we just launched yesterday, which is the McShay NFL draft board, [1:07:10] It's theringer.com slash McShea. And it's the initial launch. It's the top 100 prospects, top 50 evaluations. It's got the Mach 3.0 on there. It's just, it's everything housed in one place. Mench lives there. We forgot to mention. Mench is actually just living inside of virtually. [1:07:29] No, I was just there. Truly virtual matches in there. [1:07:32] He's in there and he's and he's writing hopefully right this moment is writing a report on a guard from Iowa State. You know, that's the vision I have that he's always just kind of grinding in the version of Mitch. So we're really excited about it. And finally a place to kind of house everything. I've been doing this 26 years, Bill. [1:07:51] I've always kind of dreamed of being able to create a database. Yeah. As I've directly dealt with Catapult used to be Exos and they had multiple NFL teams. And I've talked to general managers and all the things that go into their database with the comparisons that they pull out with the history and kind of the trends for each position, each workout drill. We're going to build that.

[1:08:15] together to make it [1:08:17] It'll be the only thing in the market that will... [1:08:20] mirror that of an NFL scouting department and what they use for their draft room. I'm excited. [1:08:25] The best thing about the draft, and this is the case for the NBA too, is – [1:08:30] Being able to then... [1:08:31] look back and forward and who does this guy remind you of? Who does that guy and the comparisons? The NBA has, the NBA has some great ones right now with this draft that's coming up. And then with football, you know, [1:08:42] It's the most fun with quarterbacks. We don't really have... [1:08:45] as many fun quarterbacks to talk about in this draft. But this does lead to my hot take. Okay. [1:08:51] I thought of this this week as ESPN, our old employer, was trying to get a... [1:08:56] are we sure Ty Simpson is the best quarterback? And I was like, this is the most boring draft we've had this decade. [1:09:01] we're trying to manufacture... That's a direct insult, Bill. No, no. I'm saying from a storyline standpoint, we just don't have the drama yet. [1:09:11] And I don't think it's going to be can Ty Simpson catch Mendoza? But the drama comes. Right now, I feel like it's boring. Where's the drama? What's going to happen? What are you looking at as like, [1:09:21] Oh, this is going to be good. Ooh, this is going to be juicy. Where is it? What's going to happen? [1:09:28] I think it's Jeremiah Love. [1:09:32] He's the best player in the draft, but he's a running back. And you look at, you know, I don't know that it equates to the NBA, but you look at the money – [1:09:41] And it doesn't. There isn't a correlation, an exact correlation. But you look at the running back position. If I take a running back and, you know, like last year, Ashton Gentile was a six overall pick.

[1:09:52] You're now paying him. [1:09:54] as if he's the eighth best running back in the league. [1:09:57] by veteran salary. And you could have bought for him, and you're paying him, like, is he the best running back in the league. That's the worst case scenario. [1:10:04] And even if you could block for him, you're having to pay him based off of what the running back salary structure is and the annual per or the average per year of the top five guys, whatever it is. Running back is the second lowest salary. [1:10:19] on that chart. Yeah. Where it starts with quarterback, then it's edge rusher. Surprisingly, it's now wide receivers, third. Then you get down to the offensive tackle spot. So, [1:10:29] If I can get an offensive tackle or an edge rusher and pay them that money, which is eighth in the running back list, but you're talking, you know, 30, 40 million dollars per year for a veteran on their second contract. Right. That's a massive difference. And that's how teams you look at the Seahawks, right? [1:10:47] JSN still on his rookie deal. Kenneth Walker, [1:10:50] still on this rookie deal. [1:10:52] when they win the Super Bowl, they can then take all that extra money in the salary cap and go put it in different places like a deep defensive line. So that's the struggle with Jeremiah Love. And you've got a team in the Cardinals that could use him at three. You've got the Titans that would love to pair him with Cam Ward at four. The Giants at five with John Harbaugh. [1:11:11] And the commanders at seven, but I don't know that any of those teams in the top five want to spend that capital. It'll be interesting. I think the watch starts at five with the giants, but everyone I talked to in the league says he's the, if he's not the best, he's the second best player in the draft. And I,

[1:11:25] that guy's not going to get out of the top five, but where's he going to go? [1:11:30] Yeah, there's no way this can happen in the NBA. The only real way it can happen is what we have this year. We have the top four. [1:11:38] And then basically the next five guys are guards in some order. [1:11:43] And a couple of them are point guards. And there just might be a situation where like, [1:11:48] The fifth, sixth, seventh team already has a point guard. They don't need a second point guard. [1:11:53] But it... [1:11:54] By the board, it's like, whoa, we're going to pass up Acuff? He just dragged his team in the final four, and he might be Kyrie Irving. We're not going to take him because we have Darius Garland. That's the only way I can think of it. I was talking to a Giants fan today. [1:12:07] who is [1:12:08] One of the funniest things, and this is why I think the draft will eventually become way less boring and actually pretty funny. You had the Jets and the Giants, both of whom were like... [1:12:18] All their fans are like, ah. [1:12:20] You know, the Giants are a five. The fans are like, we should probably take love, right? [1:12:26] But then everyone who takes a running back in the top five, it's a disaster. [1:12:29] Downs is another one. Nobody wants to take a safety that high. You have them on your big board. You have them fifth. [1:12:36] But, [1:12:37] As you laid out the Seahawks, over and over again, we see these teams... [1:12:41] They stack the offensive and the defensive lines and then build out. And if you have the quarterback and the two lines, the rest is a lot easier. And then over and over again, we see these teams in the top seven, eight. [1:12:51] Yeah, I'll take a safety. It's like, well, you can find safeties anywhere. [1:12:55] So why don't these teams try to mirror the Seahawks and actually just try to build out the lines?

[1:13:01] Thank you. [1:13:02] The Eagles are another example, right? The last two Super Bowl winners, right? This year's unique. I can't remember. I've been doing this, like I said, 26 years. I can't remember a year in which you can make an actual strong argument that the three best players are a running back, a safety, and off-ball linebacker in Sonny Stiles. [1:13:22] Like three of the positions we've learned to save money on over the years. [1:13:27] Right. And then our Val Reese, who we're calling an edge. [1:13:30] was kind of a hybrid edge off ball linebacker. Yeah. And if you, so, and you're projecting, yeah, he's going to be the next Micah Parsons, but the tape doesn't show that he's there. And Micah didn't, you know, Micah was one into the Cowboys locker room as a rookie, as an off ball linebacker. There were some injuries. He went to edge and we know the story, how it played out from there. So, [1:13:51] It's that part's fascinating because, [1:13:55] I talked to GM, but we did six interviews at the combine, right? Yeah. With general managers. [1:14:00] and every single one of them, and I talked to a bunch of other ones in the league, it's this mantra of you don't pass up on a Hall of Fame player in the draft. You take the best players. Are there Hall of Fame players in this draft other than maybe Love? I mean, Sonny Stiles could become a Hall of Fame linebacker, yeah. Okay. He is today. And Jeremiah Love could become a Hall of Fame back. And Caleb Downs could become a Hall of Fame safety. They're all that good, but it's kind of talking out of both sides of your mouth that you don't pass up on a Hall of Fame player. [1:14:30] that you have that high on your board with that grade. But then you look at the economics of it,

[1:14:36] and you say, this doesn't work. You look at running back, every running back taken in the top 10, [1:14:43] Go back to Todd Gurley. [1:14:46] We're talking about, you know, Fournette, Christian McCaffrey, Bijan, Ashton Gentry, Saquon. [1:14:54] none of them have won a Super Bowl with the team that they were drafted by. [1:14:58] Or made the Super Bowl with the team there. Gurley made a Super Bowl. [1:15:03] later on, but, but, [1:15:04] Yeah, not one of them actually... [1:15:07] Won a Super Bowl. And yeah, and it's been a long time since the running backs drafted in the top 10. I think Gurley was 10 overall, too. We wound up even making it to a Super Bowl. So Peterson was the last, I don't regret this at all, running back taken that high. [1:15:22] I'd have to look at it, but I think you're probably right. And they didn't make this to both of them. [1:15:26] And that was one of my first years. So that was like, what was that? 2001, 2002? It was mid-2000s, yeah. Somewhere in the mid-2000s. [1:15:33] And I guess Tomlinson would be another one that you don't regret taking him where they took him. Right. [1:15:38] Right. [1:15:39] Odds are you're going to end the other way. I mean, the gente thing was instructive because this is why we love the draft. [1:15:45] The longer you stare at it and stare at it, you get seduced. [1:15:48] And you're the Raiders and you can't block... [1:15:51] you're a complete mess. You're bringing a new coach and you have gente and it's like, [1:15:57] you know what, this guy might be awesome. And then all of a sudden you're taking him at six and he spends the year running for his life and getting tackled by four guys at once. You don't have an offensive line, you don't have a quarterback, you don't have receivers, it's just not the right spot for him. Now,

[1:16:11] Now, Washington, the Giants, I feel like they've solidified their offensive line. I like the Giants spot for them, even if it seems a little high, because I think they have a lot of talent. They're not a typical top five team with new coach and all the blue chippers and guys coming back from injuries. And they might actually have a quarterback and they're going to have an easier schedule. And you put him in and if he's like a superstar right away. [1:16:36] That might be like if they were picking ninth, you would say, of course, do it. But fifth, it feels a tiny bit high. [1:16:42] I think the Giants and the Titans are two teams that are going to be a lot better next year, that are going to make the biggest jumps. Now, obviously, the Chiefs are sitting there at number nine, and we don't know what's happening with Patrick. Is he going to be back to form and everything's going to be fine? But of the, let's say, the top eight teams, I think the two that could make the biggest jumps will be Tennessee and the Giants. I really do. What about Washington at seven? Because in my head, I feel like that's where he's going. How did that happen last year, man? Yeah. [1:17:10] You know what I mean? Like, I want you to think back to that, that NFC playoff run with Jaden Daniels. [1:17:16] And it was like, oh my gosh, you know, he's better than Caleb. He's better than Drake. [1:17:24] New ownership, new staff, everything feels right. [1:17:29] And to see what the product was the end of last season in what, eight months, nine months, [1:17:35] Um, [1:17:36] was pretty wild. Hard schedule. Daniels got hurt. [1:17:41] They had old guys that can be a 50-50 coin flip. A lot of the old guys either got old or got hurt.

[1:17:48] Um, [1:17:49] you know, the momentum starts swinging the other way. All of a sudden you're six and 11. [1:17:53] Yeah, but they absolutely could. That's by the way, my worst case scenario for the Patriots. [1:17:59] Yeah, you're down on next year already. I'm noticing that. The schedule is brutal. [1:18:04] Um, [1:18:05] And I do think they overachieved a little bit. But and I didn't love the free agency was fine. It was a lot of sideways stuff. [1:18:11] I don't, [1:18:12] I don't know if you could say they were better. Now, let's do the draft. [1:18:16] But don't you think AJ Brown's going to be a Patriot? [1:18:19] you're doing this to me? [1:18:22] Yeah. [1:18:24] They have to wait till after June 1st. [1:18:26] He loves Rabel. He grew up rooting for the Patriots. [1:18:29] There's only one other suitor. [1:18:32] The Rams? [1:18:33] The Rams, the Rams, [1:18:35] Thank you. [1:18:36] And it's like, if you're [1:18:39] If you're the Eagles, maybe you're talking yourself into I'd rather have next year's Pats first because maybe they're not going to be that good. Maybe they know stuff about AJ Brown. Do you think the Eagles are going to give an NFC opponent in the playoffs, AJ Brown? [1:18:52] Do we know why he wasn't nearly as good as he normally was last year? [1:18:56] I mean, the whole... He... [1:18:59] I mean, there's multiple layers. It's not a talent thing. It's, [1:19:03] He's, how do I put this kindly, can flow, can fluctuate a lot. [1:19:10] He's a fluctuating term. [1:19:12] He's a fluctuator, right? And then the whole offense was a mess and the timing wasn't right. And the quarterback play got frustrating. And I think it started with the coaching and the system and the scheme and all that. So...

[1:19:26] I think it's, yeah, I will be more surprised if he's not a Patriot by July 1st than I will be if he's somewhere else. So you're looking at that, like, so they signed Dobbs. [1:19:38] I just did my mock draft assuming that he's going to be a Patriot. [1:19:42] Okay, because that was another thing that made this draft really fun is there's just really good receivers. [1:19:49] And we might have a situation where teams are... [1:19:53] Grabbing players... [1:19:54] And there's two receivers left and one of them just starts dropping because everybody has their receiver. [1:20:00] And now six more picks have gone and nobody needs a receiver. And all of a sudden somebody awesome falls to 31. [1:20:06] We can see a record... [1:20:08] We could see her two times. I think it was 2022 and 2020. [1:20:14] what is the number? I want to say 13 receivers have gone in the first two rounds. That's the most. I went back to 1967, the common draft era. I think there could be 13 again this year and possibly 14. [1:20:26] In the first two rounds. [1:20:28] In the first two rounds, there's no... [1:20:32] Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Mark Chase. But when you get to pick, it could start at six with Cleveland, with Carnell Tate from Ohio State. But from that point on, [1:20:47] Thank you. [1:20:48] Makai Lemon from USC is an absolute dog. Jordan Tyson reminds me of Stefan Diggs coming out of Arizona State. Has some injuries, could go mid-first, but could be a steal. Omar Cooper Jr. from Indiana.

[1:21:01] really good, he would be a perfect fit for McVeigh in that system. [1:21:06] I look at even his teammate, Elijah Surratt is a second round pick is a big X on the outside. Denzel Boston's another big X out of Washington. Notre Dame's got one in Malachi Fields. I mean, [1:21:18] KC Concepcion's a great after the catch and super quick and fast. There's just, I mean, I could literally sit here and list 13, but I don't think it's really good for podcasting. I've been scouting some of them, by the way. I do have some thoughts. [1:21:33] Then give me some. [1:21:35] I really like Cooper. [1:21:37] I do too. Because he's basically between... [1:21:40] If you look at it, and I've looked at all of them, he's usually between like 13- [1:21:45] There's been a couple where he's been at the bottom of the round just because... [1:21:49] People are moving other receivers up. [1:21:51] I don't know where he's going to go, but he's just like, there's no way he's not going to be good. [1:21:55] That's the one where I'm just like, what are we doing? [1:21:58] I think the Ravens are 14, right? Yeah. [1:22:02] I'd be surprised if he gets past... [1:22:05] It depends on where the first one goes, right? Because it's going to go Tate and then either Lemon or Tyson. Those three should be the first three off the board. It wouldn't shock me if Omar Cooper Jr. went ahead of one of those guys. You have him 17th on your board. You have the three guys in front of him. [1:22:20] So... [1:22:21] 17 would probably be the parachute, but I think he could go 13 or 14. I really do. [1:22:27] I like him. I don't – some of the other ones – I'm so scarred with the Pats because they've missed on so many receivers. They can go on forever. But there's some other – like one of the things that I like about this draft, if you're going glass half full on this draft being really fun,

[1:22:42] There's teams where I'm just like, I look at Cleveland, I'm like, you guys need everything. I don't even know. If they take a receiver at six, what's that going to do? You lost every offensive lineman you had in free agency. [1:22:55] Well, they brought in a few, but yes. But I mean, you're completely revamped offensive line in this bizarre quarterback situation with Sanders and Watson. [1:23:04] And it's like, if they... [1:23:06] Like if they took... [1:23:07] You have... [1:23:09] You have Tate ninth on your big board, but if they took him sixth, [1:23:13] I would just immediately feel bad for him. It's like, man, that sucks. I know it's nice to be playing home, but [1:23:18] What a shady situation. Same thing if you get picked by the Dolphins. It's like, cool, I'm not going to have a quarterback. [1:23:26] The Dolphins are different because they brought in Malik and then just decided to trash the rest of the roster. Right. They brought in Malik with no anything. It's like, all right, keep your fingers crossed. [1:23:38] Yeah, for his safety. But but there here's another storyline that I'm kind of fascinated by next year's draft. Yeah, I haven't pitched this to you yet. But I really want to the Washington DC lawn like Arch and Dante. And I just think there's we could make a I want you there in Washington with us. Okay, I want it I want it to be a scene anyway. [1:24:02] Next year's draft has a chance to be one of, if not the best quarterback drafts of all time. But the thing that kind of is getting overlooked is there's a ton of other talent too. So you look at this from like the jets for a fact, I know that,

[1:24:16] One of their deals for the first, when they get multiple extras, they dealt Quinnen at defensive tackle. They dealt Sauce Gardner at cornerback. Their whole plan was, listen, we don't want the one this year. We'll take a two this year. Give us the one next year. So now they've got two first-rounders this year. They've got eight picks in the first two rounds this year and next year combined. But they got the three first-rounders next year. They're one of a few teams where it's, [1:24:45] We're operating under 2026. Again, we want to win some games and we want the fans to be happy and the owners to be happy. [1:24:52] We're building for 27. [1:24:54] And that's why you bring in a Geno. They're going to win enough games where it doesn't completely implode and Woody doesn't fire everybody. But they're going to be in a position where they can get their quarterback. Or you bring them in to lose all your games. [1:25:06] Did you see him last year? If you want to be bad, I would start with 2025 Geno repeating it. [1:25:13] I promise you the mantra was we want to win enough to keep this job and everything. It doesn't blow up, but not enough where we have to package too many picks to go move up and get our guy. Yeah. Then you've got Arizona. Everyone's saying... [1:25:27] Ty Simpson now, maybe Arizona trades up into the first round, or maybe they move out of three if a team wants to move up for Jeremiah Love or whoever it would be. [1:25:36] Arizona, though, it kind of looks like if they don't, if it's not Ty Simpson, they're working towards 2027, right? So, and the Cleveland Browns, you just mentioned, that's what got me thinking. The Cleveland Browns, let's get it, let's get a wide receiver. Let's get Carnell Tate at six and Caleb Lomu, the offensive tackle at 24. Right. And let's, let's, let's see what Shadour does.

[1:25:57] And if if he has this miraculous season and it looks like he's our guy, great, that's a win. But it probably we're going to address quarterback in 27 as well. So that's three organizations right there that I think very much are kind of working towards not tanking for a couple of them, but working towards 2027 already. [1:26:15] Yeah, we don't use tanking in football because there's less games and it's so violent. And these guys aren't it's not like what we're doing in the NBA, which has been a complete disgrace. [1:26:25] But, right. [1:26:26] There are things you can do. And we've seen it. We saw with Vegas last year where you're shutting down Crosby when he wants to play. Yes. There's a couple of those... [1:26:35] moments you had. I think the Browns would have the easiest path to do that because... [1:26:39] Either quarterback choice is going to be pretty bad for them. [1:26:43] Miami, I don't really understand why they torpedoed the roster and signed Malik Willis. [1:26:49] That didn't make sense. Honestly, it makes sense to me. I get the torpedo in the roster and throwing away the year. But then why are you also making like a pretty sizable bet on this guy to be a franchise quarterback for you? [1:27:02] but then you're just giving them the worst car possible to drive. What are you going to learn from that next year? Nothing. [1:27:08] Yeah, I mean, thankfully for him, he's mobile and hopefully can endure it. I mean, honestly. What does he look like when he's running like this? John Eric Sullivan, the new GM, like I actually believe he – [1:27:23] he's doing all the right things. It's almost like you want to put Malik on the shelf and play him in like six, six, eight games and protect him. And so he's ready for 2027, but,

[1:27:35] It is challenging to look at that roster and see where you're getting five, six wins, you know? Yeah. [1:27:41] All right, so other storylines we have. The Sonny Stiles thing, who is the Combine superhero this year. Was he the big winner of... [1:27:48] Combine superhero cape. [1:27:50] The one that got everyone the most excited. [1:27:52] Yes. Also a great player, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, everyone came out of that like, holy shit. [1:27:58] What is this? Well, he's different, man. Yeah. And he's like a special human being. Yeah. So you're getting... [1:28:04] I got to talk to one decision maker, we'll call him, who's like, this guy's going to be CEO of a company. Like, he's that level. And in this league, it's like, [1:28:15] He can play the overhang and cover slot guys. He can, he actually, if you look at his production as a pass rusher, [1:28:22] He had about half as many edge rush players [1:28:25] opportunities as Arbel Reese over the last two years. But he was just he was on par in terms of sacks, pressures, all that with what Arbel did. And so I'm not saying he's going to be that guy, but I do think his role is not going to be that of [1:28:38] your traditional off-ball linebacker. So I would take him in the top five. I was going to ask you, would you take him two or three? [1:28:47] over the other choices? [1:28:49] I actually would. Yeah, it seems like you would. I could tell from reading you, it seems like... [1:28:54] Reese feels flimsy to me where it's like best case scenario, Michael Parsons and, [1:28:59] We've seen these guys where it's like sometimes the worst case scenario is, [1:29:03] You're like, oof.

[1:29:05] I can't believe it turned out like this. It just seems like he's almost like a coin flip, which I don't want to do at number two. [1:29:11] I want sure things are number two. [1:29:14] I mean, he really, he is, he's a cyborg, you know, just the power, the speed, the length, all of it. [1:29:23] His past, like there's a lot of great flashes and he got, he got a lot of reps as an edge rusher this year. [1:29:29] The problem is if he goes full-time in the NFL at Edgeworth, and he's not as big as Sonny Stiles. Yeah. Yeah. [1:29:35] If he goes full-time at edge and it works out where he's just okay – [1:29:39] Now you're dropping him back to off-ball linebacker or having him play this hybrid role. He's not great. I mean, he's good. He's okay. [1:29:46] But he's not great dropping into coverage like Sonny is. Yeah. So what do you have? And so, yeah, there's a lot I want to bet on. Whereas Sonny, you know. You know what he is. You know what he's going to be. You know he's going to be awesome. Former safety, playing linebacker, has shown that he can rush the passer at times. [1:30:03] In this league with all the personnel packages and trying to keep the same 11 on the field and want to be multiple players, [1:30:09] I think he has more value, Sonny Stiles does, than even five years ago in the league. So is it crazy to think if he's there at five, he's there at five. [1:30:20] The Giants just say, fuck it. [1:30:22] Let's add him to our defense and do it. I would take Sonny Stiles if I was the Giants, even though they brought in Tremaine Edmonds. [1:30:28] Their run defense has been atrocious. [1:30:30] They want to be a physical team under Harbaugh. [1:30:33] Yeah, you like Jeremiah Love, but maybe you draft another back to go with Scadaboo and Tyrone Tracy.

[1:30:40] Um, [1:30:41] I just, I think Sonny Stiles would bring that. And then you think about what they have at edge, right? I think he would take that defense to another level. The Giants are in a good spot. Like, they kind of can't screw it up. Right. If you take Jeremiah Love, yeah, you deal with the economics of it, but... [1:30:58] He's the identity of what they want to be with a mobile quarterback, with a back who took the league by storm and scataboo, but, [1:31:07] that can't, that's not sustainable. His running style, like one season injured and now he's coming off of an injury. Yeah. So, [1:31:15] That would be a, that's a win. Sonny styles is a win. Caleb downs is worth the pick. [1:31:21] But I'd be more excited about Sonny Stiles, if I'm being honest. And it's the most fun if Love Goes Seven with Daniels, with the rejuvenated Commanders team and... [1:31:30] And us in mid-September being like, holy shit, Daniels and love the speed and watch these teams try to figure out blah, blah, blah. Yep. That'd be fun. Yep. [1:31:40] That would be a lot of fun. I can't think of a real fun jet scenario, unfortunately. [1:31:46] It's going to be take an edge rusher. It's going to be Bailey or Arvell is my guess at two. And then just be back. It's 16 take... [1:31:55] wide receiver. Yeah. [1:31:59] But the beauty is, what do they have, 11 overall picks? Again, they're building for 2027. This is about putting pieces in. [1:32:07] to get ready when you do insert that quarterback next year and hopefully don't have to use all three picks to go get them.

[1:32:13] that they'll be ready to roll. You know what's going to be fascinating? This is over a year. This is a year and 30 days away. Yeah. [1:32:22] Thank you. [1:32:24] Will Arch go to the Jets if the Jets have the first overall pick? Oh, the repeat of the Eli. Oh, wow. Mm-hmm. [1:32:33] Yep. [1:32:34] I don't know why it doesn't happen more. Like Ace Bailey kind of passive-aggressively tried, his team tried to do it when he wanted to go to Washington and Utah picked him. [1:32:42] He just ended up going, but we've never seen anybody just, especially now with the NIL stuff. I don't know exactly what the rules would be if somebody just been like, yeah, I don't like the team that drafted me. I'm going back. [1:32:54] because I don't know if there are any rules in college sports anymore. [1:32:58] But I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often where a guy's just like, yeah, no thanks. [1:33:06] Danny Ferry did it in 1990 with the Clippers. He was just like, I'm out. Francis did it with the Vancouver Grizzlies. [1:33:14] And then we had Eli do it and Elway do it. But the number is less than 10. [1:33:19] in my lifetime. [1:33:20] of guys who have just said, yeah, I'm not going there. No, thanks. [1:33:25] It'll that'll that will be fascinating because we're tracking towards, you know, maybe it's Miami at one, but. [1:33:31] The Jets are very likely to be one of the top... [1:33:35] The Jets are likely to have a top five pick. [1:33:37] And if they don't own the first pick, then they have the capital to go get that first pick if it's a team that doesn't need a quarterback. So that part's going to be... Yeah, but here's the thing. If it was like...

[1:33:50] My son or your son, and they were in this situation, and the two teams looking at them were the Jets or the Browns, knowing everything we know. I'd be like, you're not playing there. [1:34:00] We're holding out. If I had any kind of control. Yeah, we're holding out. You're not going to Cleveland. No, thank you. It's not happening. Same for the Jets. Like it's no, like we'll wait them out. Eventually they're going to have to trade you. What are they going to do? Just get nothing for the asset. Let's be patient. [1:34:14] Hopefully we'll have a 20-year career. You're not starting your career there. [1:34:18] Thanks. [1:34:19] Prove to us you can have a confident franchise for a year before I send my son there. [1:34:24] I'm amazed it doesn't happen more often. [1:34:27] Yeah, next year is going to be – that part will be intriguing to see where the Jets wind up in the first-round draft order. [1:34:34] Sometimes the greatest financial victories... [1:34:37] aren't the huge flashy contracts, but those little sneaky mid-level moves that maximize your cap space. Just like Tax Act helps you get a great return by finding every deduction. [1:34:48] even the small ones, to maximize your refund. In great returns presented by TaxAct, we look back at the best decisions GMs have made [1:34:56] to land an inexpensive player who paid huge dividends down the stretch and owners who have seen their team valuation change. [1:35:04] skyrocket. So I think of the Celtics in the mid-2010s when it seemed like they were tanking, [1:35:09] Then they made... [1:35:11] A stealth move for Isaiah Thomas. [1:35:14] They had drafted well with Marcus Smart. [1:35:16] All of a sudden, they had cap space in 2016. They get Al Horford. [1:35:20] And then the Brooklyn trade starts paying dividends. They get Tate and they get Brown. And somehow they have enough cap space to also get Gordon Hayward.

[1:35:29] And it's this unbelievable hypothetical Celtics team that we thought had a chance to win titles. [1:35:34] Hayward got hurt. [1:35:36] Kyrie. [1:35:37] kind of didn't last. And we had to move them to the 2020s with different nucleus. But it was brilliant the way they laid the whole thing out. You certainly can't kick yourself for the decisions they made. Anyway, that was Great Returns presented by Tax Act. This tax season, [1:35:53] Simplify your moves. [1:35:55] Maximize your refund. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com. [1:36:01] for details. [1:36:04] See ya, Bert. [1:36:34] If we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently? Would we go to bed at a consistent time or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep? With Sleep Score, Apple Watch measures your bedtime consistency, interruptions, and sleep duration. Then, every morning it combines these factors into an easy-to-understand score from 1 to 100. So you'll know how to take the quality of your sleep from okay to very high.

[1:37:04] required. I talked myself way more into this. Just talking to you for a half hour, I'm way more excited. The Chiefs, [1:37:09] The Chiefs just being on the board with Mahomes... [1:37:13] You know, in July, it'd be like, Mahomes is doing great. [1:37:16] He's running full speed already. We'll be getting those stories around July 10th. Kelsey already resigned. [1:37:23] Easier schedule. They brought back the enemy. We're going to have the whole Andy Reid. I had a come to Jesus moment last year. I've got to do better. [1:37:31] I'm not the same guy I was 10 years ago. I got to double down. I can still be a good coach. [1:37:37] And then they have this ninth pick that could be a really exciting player. [1:37:41] This could be the most impactful thing. [1:37:43] offensive player they've drafted since Tyreek. [1:37:46] which was... [1:37:48] Nine years ago, eight years ago, I don't remember. [1:37:51] I guess Mahomes was the most they traded up for him. But yeah, they haven't had a guy... [1:37:56] If they got love, if they got one of these receivers, this would be a real thing for them. [1:38:02] Thank you. [1:38:02] I actually have heard that if Jeremiah Love somehow gets to nine, which I don't think he will, but if he gets to nine, even though... [1:38:10] They signed Kenneth Walker. [1:38:13] that they would still entertain drafting him there, which would be fascinating, right? Wow. It would kind of signal a whole new Chiefs, [1:38:21] offensive mindset. Um, [1:38:23] But more realistic is... [1:38:26] Are we taking an edge rusher? Are we taking Mansoor Delane, the LSU cornerback, who's clearly the best cornerback after we just let our top two corners walk out the building? Well, they have two firsts, though, so maybe they get the cornerback with the other pick. Yeah.

[1:38:40] Yeah, 29. [1:38:43] So Delane would be in play there. If a Reuben Bain were to fall, I think he would be in play there. But if not, [1:38:51] Is it a wide receiver? I mean, they've missed... [1:38:54] from Sky Moore, Rasheed Rice, Rasheed Rice. [1:38:58] Um, [1:39:00] They need someone reliable and receiver. [1:39:03] They need someone they can trust. And is that Carnell Tate? Is that Makai Lemon? [1:39:08] Um, [1:39:09] Yeah, it'll be fascinating. They've got those two first-round picks. [1:39:13] And an opportunity to kind of turn things right back around. So Brett Veach is one of the better talent evaluators out there, but has not. [1:39:22] you know, it hasn't been the best track record with offensive skill guys, you know? Um, yeah, [1:39:26] yeah, the, uh, [1:39:28] Clyde, Clyde Allaire, Edwards Allaire. That was tough. And then the wide receivers. So like, do you just go with Andy Reid's always been really good identifying offensive linemen. They've been good identifying defensive line. Are they just going to go at one of those positions or are they going to try to make a splash and actually hit on one of these offensive weapons for Patrick? [1:39:50] So if Love somehow fell to nine and they didn't take him, we just signed Kenneth Walker. We're not taking him. [1:39:56] The next two teams are the Bengals and the Dolphins. [1:40:00] And then the Cowboys at 12. [1:40:02] ready to do the all-time victory party of the best guy in the draft, all them at 12. This never happens. [1:40:08] Usually if he gets to around 7-8, somebody will trade up to take him, I think would be how it plays out.

[1:40:15] I just don't see him going past seven or eight. The other guy that commanders don't want them or don't see the value and get an offer. I think they can move out of that spot. They pick at seven, but they don't pick again until 77 in the third round. Yeah. So maybe they go back to recoup that. Right. Yeah. [1:40:33] Maybe the Rams. What about the Rams? [1:40:36] Wow. [1:40:38] Right? [1:40:40] He's sitting there at seven. We don't have to give the biggest offer to go from 13 to seven. [1:40:45] We put him in the backfield. [1:40:47] We got some good backs. You sure that's not the Cowboys just moving up five spots for them? They have two picks. [1:40:54] I think the Cowboys got to go defense, but yeah. You're talking about them like they're a rational franchise. This is Jerry Jones. I know. [1:41:02] Wait, Jeremiah Love's still on the board? We've got to get him. Trade up for that guy. He's great. [1:41:08] um, [1:41:10] I just feel like that's like the classic splashy, [1:41:13] we've won first take the next day kind of draft pick that the kind of move that they make. [1:41:19] Yes, they will definitely win first take and get up. I promise. Well, and that's regardless of who they take. [1:41:25] Well, and that leads to the Ty Simpson thing. [1:41:28] Um, [1:41:29] - You know, he's in like the low 20s, seems like where people have him, like around somebody taking a fly at him between like 27 and 35. - Isn't it fascinating, man? [1:41:39] One guy... [1:41:41] who's never drafted a, [1:41:43] before, right? But has played the position, but is one of the, like Orlovsky comes out and says, I would take him number one. Now, everyone's pointing to he, they're both represented by CAA. And like, fine. I've been, I was texting with Orlovsky like a month ago about what we were seeing on tape. The funny part is, or the interesting part is,

[1:42:04] I've probably been the highest [1:42:05] Even talking to Daniel Jeremiah, he and I were kind of going back and forth on... [1:42:11] Like I'm clearly higher on Ty Simpson than he is, but we were being rational about it. Right. [1:42:18] With Ty Simpson, here's the problem. If you're a purist, right? [1:42:23] And you grew up in Boston. Think about growing up in baseball. It's romantic, right? Yeah. [1:42:30] If you're a purist and you're someone who just like has studied the quarterback position your whole life and you put on the tape for Ty Simpson, [1:42:38] It's like watching Willie Mays or like one of the, you know what I mean? It's how the game's supposed to be played. It's pre-snap. It's identifying, it's control at the line of scrimmage. It's utilizing the motions pre-snap and tendencies on the defensive side to identify. Then post-snap, it's quick reads. It's everything's in rhythm. Everything's on schedule. [1:43:00] Balls out on time, throwing with anticipation, hitting spots, leaving receivers. It's a, it's a, [1:43:05] Beautiful. [1:43:07] Thank you. [1:43:08] But then you get to game nine or 10 and the play starts to decline. Now, if I'm making excuses for Ty Simpson, it's, [1:43:16] Well, they had like the 126 best running game in the in all of college football, which is like mind blowing for Alabama. Yeah. Then you've got the pass protection that started to fail because Brent Venables came to town with that Oklahoma defense and kind of showed some weaknesses and how to attack it from that point on. Everyone was kind of doing some of the same things.

[1:43:34] Then he's taking a beating, and he's got gastritis. And by the time he gets to the Rose Bowl, he's a 212-pound quarterback at the Combine. He was down to 190. And then your top wide receiver, star playmaker, who came in recruiting class with 1A and 1B, was he, Ryan Williams and Jeremiah Smith at Ohio State. Yeah. And he just disappears. [1:43:57] So all those factors add up. And so if you're watching the tape into November, [1:44:03] Ty Simpson's clearly better than Fernando Mendoza. Fernando Mendoza didn't play well against Iowa or Oregon or Penn State. [1:44:12] But the fourth quarter after he made interceptions in all those games, late in those games, after that, when the game was on the line and all the pressure was there, he was unbaked. [1:44:21] perfect. He was awesome. And then you fast forward. I'm telling you, [1:44:26] If you just watch the Ohio State tape of Mendoza, you're like, this guy's generational. The toughness, the decisiveness. He's on the move. They're hitting his ass. They're getting after him, man. Like, he got hit in that very first play. It looked like he should have been knocked out. Then later in the game, no one talks about it. That same defender, Caden Curry, comes and hits him in the end zone. Head hits the turf. And he just never flinched. [1:44:50] So and so when this is the season progressed and he got more comfortable with that offense and the reads and the adjustment, he was he was phenomenal. [1:44:59] Like all those top 10 teams he faced at the time, and he was like seven or eight teams. He was like 85% completion. So, yeah,

[1:45:06] You compare all those things and then you look at one guy who's six foot five and 232 pounds and [1:45:12] and did all those things, but... [1:45:15] progress, but in an offense where [1:45:17] RPO, stressing defenses. They've got to play honest. He has one read, makes a decision, balls out. [1:45:24] And he's awesome at it, but it's not that easy in the NFL. And he had awesome receivers. [1:45:30] Two guys who were going to be drafted, I just told you, probably in the first two rounds. And a third one who might be the best of them, Charlie Becker, who came out of nowhere. Yeah. And two running backs that could be drafted. So all those things. And now you've got Alabama, right? 6-1. [1:45:45] Down to 190 pounds, bucked up to 212. Couldn't stay healthy as one year as a starter. 15 starts, it means you are the outlier of outliers. [1:45:55] Anyone with fewer than 25 starts, it's been a struggle. Anyone with fewer than 20 starts, it's been an outright bust as a first-round pick at quarterback. [1:46:02] So it's this juggling of like, [1:46:05] My eyes tell me Ty Simpson's every bit as good, in some ways, better and more NFL ready than Mendoza. But history and general managers who have to assess risk are saying, [1:46:21] Mendoza is the safer pick. He's in that range of starts. He's in that range of size. He can run on a straight line. He won the big games. [1:46:31] That's the debate. And so one person comes out this week, right? Norlovsky. And I don't think he's wrong with what he's saying in a lot of regards.

[1:46:40] And it's cool if you want him to be your number one quarterback ahead of Mendoza. He's not alone. I've also talked to people in the league who would take Simpson over Mendoza. But A, the Raiders are taking Mendoza. Yeah. And B... [1:46:54] I don't know why it has to be this huge. It is the story. March Madness is going on. Everything on my timeline, every show I turn on is Orlovsky, CAA. [1:47:05] How do you have Ty Simpson? He said that Mendoza didn't play in big games. Like, [1:47:09] It's pretty wild, you know, to see how one person can have these opinions, which are not wrong in a lot of regards, but are not shared by the majority of teams in the league. [1:47:20] can now set off this brush fire, you know? See, I think it makes sense because people love the NFL draft and there was no controversy with the NFL draft and it's March 24th. [1:47:31] I really think people just love arguing about the draft, and we needed a moment for somebody to say something [1:47:37] Where everybody's like, wait, what? [1:47:39] And then now we're off and now we're going and now we have some Ty Simpson stuff. I think that's really it. Right. Because you didn't mention when you were laying out the Mendoza case. [1:47:48] Like really, really smart. [1:47:50] which teams love. They love when guys have just these... [1:47:54] fucking crazy brains which it seems like he has he'll be able to remember the entire offense right away like they love that shit [1:48:00] And Brady's pulling the strings there, right? And Brady probably sees a lot of... [1:48:06] a young Tom in, in Mendoza, like he was a two or three star recruit, depending on who you talk to. Yeah. Couldn't they wouldn't let him walk on at Miami. He had one offer coming out of Christopher Columbus High School in Miami. Yeah. And it was to Yale non scholarship. He committed to Yale and then wound up getting an offer late from Cal.

[1:48:36] And I said in the summer when we did our show, I said in the summer, this guy's a first rounder if he develops. And I think he will under Cignetti. And people thought I was crazy then. [1:48:45] But I was probably also last to market. It took that Ohio State game for me to go chips all in on Mendoza. So, yeah. [1:48:52] it's an unbelievable story. And I think Tom, you know, having spent a lot of time with Brian Greasy and knowing what Tom was up against at Michigan and seeing he kind of, he probably relates to, [1:49:04] what he's been through and then the mental part and the commitment to the game. Um, [1:49:09] Yeah, I can see why it's a no-brainer for the Raiders that he's going to pick. And I think he'll do really well in Kubiak's system. That's the thing we don't talk about enough is Kubiak's a good fit for him. Yeah. And we'll hide some of his weaknesses and kind of just like Signetti and that staff did. [1:49:25] at Indiana, they will know what to do to protect him from what his weaknesses are while he develops. Well, they had the devastating Max Crosby cancellation trade where they were clearly trading this guy who, [1:49:36] I don't want to say it's a bum knee, but I don't think it's a healthy knee. [1:49:39] They were going to get two first round picks from him. [1:49:42] He's heading into his 30s. That trade would have been amazing. [1:49:45] So now I don't, I don't know what the, uh, what that is. Speaking of trades, by the way. [1:49:50] With Simpson. [1:49:51] So we saw this with Dart last year, and you were kind of hinting at it, not quite predicting it, but that – [1:49:56] Somebody was going to get aggressive and maybe try to move up and try to grab them. [1:50:01] How? [1:50:02] What's a realistic range for you with Simpson for somebody to be like,

[1:50:06] Like what number are we looking at where somebody's like, we got to get this guy, we got to trade up to here. [1:50:12] I think back half of the first round, anywhere in there. Now, depending on what show you watch, and I'm getting ready earlier today, and I show in the background, they're talking about, like, well, maybe if Arizona moves back from three, they could take them at, you know, eight, nine, ten. Like, yeah. [1:50:28] I don't know that it's going to be there. [1:50:31] Thank you. [1:50:31] I... [1:50:32] 16 is, it seems like, the jumping off point. That's the Jets. Yeah. Unless the plan has changed, I am under... [1:50:41] I know the plan is 2027 for the Jets quarterback. So I would say 17, barring something that's completely unforeseen at this point, 17, and I'm not saying that pick, but like when we get 17 and beyond in the first round is about where I think the range for him would be based off of, [1:51:00] Where I evaluate him, but also everything I just went through, what he is on tape versus he's an outlier. He's going to be an outlier in a couple of regards. So I think that if it's Arizona moving in somewhere like the Giants did last year, [1:51:14] I knew the Giants wanted to move up. Yeah. But the funny part was in talking to Dayball offline, I'm, [1:51:20] And really fascinating, having spent a lot of time talking to Brian Dable recently. [1:51:26] before he took the Titans job. Like, [1:51:28] And then talking to Mike Borgonzio. [1:51:32] the GM of the Titans, and now they're working together. But Dayball is sitting there trying to talk him into taking Jalen Carter, move back to three. They offered a boatload to go get Cam Ward. And now Dayball gets fired by the Giants, gets an opportunity to go work with the guy, and he loves Jackson Dart. He talked Joe Shane into moving up to go get him, and he loves Scadaboo. Those were his two picks last year.

[1:51:55] But, but, [1:51:56] But now he gets to work with Cam Ward, the guy that they wanted to give away a whole lot to go get him. But the Giants, I kind of knew... [1:52:05] about two weeks out that [1:52:07] This is the plan. The plan is we're going to stick at three and take Abdul. [1:52:11] And the Shador thing blew up and I knew the behind stories and some of the things that happened in some of the meetings and it wasn't good. I didn't know he was going to fall to the fifth. I thought second round is probably where it's going to happen. But then you start to hear people in the league and you understand the why. [1:52:26] My point is the Giants played it perfectly. Let's get our guy here. [1:52:30] just like the Cardinals sitting there at three. And then let's move up from, I think they're 34 in the second round. And let's move into that mid-20s range to get ahead of anyone else who could potentially try to come and get them if the opportunity presents itself. So I think if the Cardinals like tight since. So Eagles at 23. [1:52:49] Who are always like thinking ahead of time. Can we just turn this into three assets? Yeah, and then how we will go back to 34 and then move back into the first or something. Yeah. Because the other one I was looking at was – [1:52:59] The Jets at 16, tying into what you were saying earlier about how they care about 27, not 26. [1:53:05] And if you could get Arizona to move up, [1:53:08] to 16 and get next year's first from them. [1:53:11] and flip like a second and a third, whatever. But now you have Arizona's first with the three firsts you already have. [1:53:18] Thank you. [1:53:18] You're thinking about it. If you're Arizona, who scares you? [1:53:22] from picks, if the Jets are willing to move, that means they're not taking Ty. Right. And then who scares you? 24's the next team you look at and say...

[1:53:32] I'm just saying that multiple teams are trying to trade up to 16. [1:53:36] And you're worried you're not going to get them if you like them. We don't even know if the Cardinals like them. But, yeah, I felt like 16 would be in play. [1:53:42] I'm always prepared for the Eagles. [1:53:45] The Browns, because they don't care about this upcoming season either. They would probably... [1:53:50] Think about it. I wonder, you mentioned the Titans about Dayball and just [1:53:55] They have a really interesting structure because they're two guys that I didn't like as head coaches, but I do like. I thought Salad had a good job with the Niners. I just think he's a really good defensive. Even when he left the Jets, they completely fell apart on defense the moment he left. Oh, totally. Dayball is just a great offensive coach. Probably had some bad luck. Maybe the wrong city for him. [1:54:16] Maybe he shouldn't be a head coach, but I like the combo of them together. [1:54:20] where it's like just... I love it. You handle the offense. I'm going to do the team and the defense, and we're going to work together. And I wonder, because Dayball was at Buffalo, seeing how they were able to build... [1:54:32] around Josh, [1:54:33] And... [1:54:34] Cam Ward, I wonder what the lessons, good and bad, [1:54:38] were for him with how they built the bills. Right. [1:54:41] Because ultimately, when they got Cook, [1:54:44] I think that made Josh's life a lot easier in a whole bunch of ways. And I wonder if they would think that way. We'd love it for, for Tennessee. [1:54:52] Like, let's do this. This guy's going to run. Now we have the two game breakers and we can build around that. [1:54:57] I would be shocked if Brian's not [1:55:00] pushing hard with Mike Borgonzi, the general manager and with Sala to, to take Jeremiah Lovett for, I would be shocked. That doesn't mean it's going to happen. Um, for all the reasons I laid out earlier, and do we want to make that financial commitment to a running back where we could go get a defensive end here, you know? Um, but,

[1:55:21] Thank you. [1:55:22] But I also... [1:55:23] The best thing that happened to Cam Ward is Brian Dayball took that job and didn't get a head coaching job with Buffalo or anywhere else. [1:55:31] It's what he does best. It's like McDaniels last year was May. It was a miracle that that guy just wanted to be the offensive coordinator and commit for a few years. [1:55:40] Right. And had it been anyone else besides Cam Ward, I don't know how thrilled he would have been about doing it. Yeah. He wanted to work with him that badly. Yeah. [1:55:49] Now, if you throw it, and Schefter came out last week and said, I don't see it at Tennessee. I don't think it's going to be Tennessee. And I made a couple calls, and I never want to call the source, and they're never going to give me the information specifically on that. But I can see it both ways. I think there's going to be some internal debate, which is healthy, on what we do with that pick. [1:56:19] like the breadcrumbs [1:56:21] Their plan, they've got everything in place. [1:56:24] with a [1:56:25] a really good defensive coordinator and a really good head coach as a defensive coach that we can go out and spend that pick on an offensive weapon. So we'll see how it plays out. [1:56:35] Their defense might be pretty good next year. And you throw in Salah, you throw in how bad their coaching was last year. [1:56:40] And they have an interim coach. It's just a mess. And they were a mess to watch. [1:56:45] that's a team... [1:56:47] I don't know if they could win the division, but when you think every year we have the fourth to first team and you're looking at candidates, I think they're definitely a candidate.

[1:56:55] I totally agree. It's not like in the AFC South. Do you love any AFC South team? We have no idea what Daniel Jones... [1:57:03] Who knows what Jacksonville a year after, a pretty good year for them. Then Houston with CJ. I don't know. [1:57:09] I could see good stuff happen. The last thing I just want to mention quick, [1:57:13] Because normally teams shoot high on the offensive line, especially in the top 10. [1:57:18] But it's a bad offensive line year for blue chippers. [1:57:21] And yet every year that doesn't stop somebody from being like, look, man, we just need – [1:57:26] We just need a tackle. This guy's 15th on our board, but [1:57:30] it still makes sense to take them at six because we're not getting a tackle otherwise. Do you see that happening with any of these guys? I think it's almost going to be an exact mirror of what happened last year. It may start a couple picks later, or it could start at three with the Cardinals, like Francis Maui Noah coming out of Miami. The problem with this class is Maui Noah is an awesome player, phenomenal athlete, around 320 plus pounds, 330 pounds. [1:57:57] But he's a right tackle. [1:58:00] right tackle. He's going to be a right tackle. And in worst case, he's a guard. Then you've got Spencer Fano, who's a terrific athlete and plays like smart and like the energy he has and great zone blocker and all those things. [1:58:13] But some teams are working him out as a center because he may be an elite center because he's got those both. He's got short arms, right? [1:58:20] And then you've got short arms. I got Will Campbell, PTSD. [1:58:24] Did you try not to think about the short arms?

[1:58:27] Did you see Mench when we sat down with the Patriots GM and – [1:58:36] I'm talking about you grew up a son of a Hall of Fame general manager and you're watching film in Lambeau Field before. Take us through what you've developed. And I ask a couple of questions, not buttering up, but let's start with the history of it. Yeah. Mensch comes in. Oh, no. Yeah. [1:58:54] Grew up in Andover. You know, he's a New England guy, Patriots fan. Everyone is a life Patriots fan. Yeah. He comes in with this haymaker off the top rope of... [1:59:03] You know, I thought at the time when Will Campbell, when you guys drafted Will Campbell, he had short arms and I saw it on tape. And, you know, sometimes the short, short arms, like if you don't see it on tape and I don't get caught up in it. But I saw it on tape. And then we fast forward to the Super Bowl. Is he going to be your left tackle? And the response is, Will Campbell is our starting left tackle. And I'm sitting there. I'm like, oh, my gosh, how do I recover? It was great. He handled it well. They've been adamant. This is our left tackle. [1:59:29] There's no discussion. There's no debate. And if you look at him pre-injury... [1:59:33] And, and, [1:59:34] He was holding up just fine. And you give him a second year in development and kind of the motivation from that, I think he's actually going to be all right. [1:59:43] But that's the problem with how that Patriots season ended, among many of the problems, including getting shellacked in the Super Bowl. [1:59:50] we have no idea how healthy Will Campbell was and we have no idea how healthy Drake May was. And they can't really tell us after the fact, right? Cause they got to file those injury reports. And once you do that,

[2:00:01] Well, I feel like they've kind of told us. Well, they kind of told us with Campbell. Yeah, and Campbell's even admitted, like, I have a torn MCL. [2:00:09] That I probably shouldn't have played with, but it's the playoffs. [2:00:12] Drake may, I don't know if we'll ever get an answer. [2:00:15] Probably not. No. [2:00:16] I think the answer lies in the tape in some of the plays they ran in dinner. I think we know the answer. I think we know the answer, Bill. I mean, you watched it [2:00:25] even more closely than I did. That is not... [2:00:29] The last few games and the last two games, it just wasn't the same. [2:00:35] Yeah, even down to the plays they called for him. [2:00:38] We're not the same. That's what made me the most suspicious, like rolling him out to the right where he could throw. Like they just didn't want to do it. [2:00:45] So that anything where he might get hit, they didn't want to do it. [2:00:50] Yeah. [2:00:51] And that was such a big part of what they were. I told you, I was at that Bills game where they jumped out to the big lead. He was every bit a running back early in that game when they got the big lead before they wound up giving the comeback from the Bills. [2:01:04] And just like his mobility is such a big part of what they do. So – [2:01:09] My last thing and then we have to go. [2:01:11] Um, [2:01:12] I really want the Patriots to get a tight end. My dream for them would be 31, a tight end, but there's no tight ends. [2:01:19] There's one guy who's going to go from the guy from Oregon is going to go before they pick. [2:01:24] Um, [2:01:26] Yeah. There's no chance. Could he fall to the 20s and could they move up? Can I dream about this for a second? I just did a mock draft where Sadiq fell to 27 to the 49ers. And I went there because of George Kittle's injury. I don't think it's I'm not banking on it, but I.

[2:01:45] Like if you're the, I get it. I don't, [2:01:48] uh [2:01:49] To me, he's not Tyler Warren and he's not Colson Loveland. I think he's a really good player, but I don't think he's at that level. So as we're continuing to build, if you're a Patriots fan, it's like I don't know that I want to give up capital to go get a tight end. I also will say this. [2:02:06] Maybe get two of them on day three. [2:02:08] This class is weirdly, they had 28 tight ends invited to the combine. It's the most in the history of the combine. It's, there's no elite guys, but like this Marlon Klein from Michigan, they just had them blocking when they threw him the ball, Underwood couldn't throw the ball and it was a disaster. [2:02:26] at Michigan. So I, [2:02:28] I like him. I like Sam Roush from Stanford. There's two SMU guys that can run. There's a lot of good tight ends. [2:02:35] I feel like maybe you double up on tight end on day three and see if you can hit the jackpot with one of these kind of guys. So we'll see how it plays out. My guess with them, it was interesting that they got Buffalo's fullback. [2:02:48] Right. Because I actually liked when they ran out of the eye. They just didn't really have the personnel for it. But it was I didn't understand why they didn't do it more in the Super Bowl. [2:02:56] Um, and with Dobbs and if we think AJ Brown's a possibility, um, [2:03:02] That takes receiver off, but I just want them to have tight ends and blocking options and the ability to go big or small, depending on, that's what they didn't have last year. [2:03:10] And I think the best teams... [2:03:13] offensively and Seattle was a good example of this. And so it was the Rams, these teams that could,

[2:03:18] go bigger or smaller, depending on what the situation was. They had no flexibility to do that. I would like to be able to see them do that. [2:03:24] They will this year. They will. It's the evolution. This is the first year. It's not a miracle. [2:03:36] You've been out in LA how many years, but you just sound like the people I'm surrounded by here. My whole life, basically. The good news is Miami and the Jets four times. The bad news is basically everybody else on the schedule. But you do have four games that should be... [2:03:52] Pretty winnable. All right. Before you go... [2:03:55] Give me one... [2:03:59] completely insane prediction that's not that insane. [2:04:03] A completely insane prediction that would make me go, oh my god, but then we could replay it on April 30th and be like, McShay fucking called this. [2:04:11] in the completely insane prediction section. [2:04:14] Cole Payton. [2:04:16] 10. North Dakota State's quarterback. [2:04:18] Thank you. [2:04:19] was a one-year starter at North Dakota State. [2:04:23] he... [2:04:25] Was essentially Tim Tebow. Remember the role Tim Tebow had with, was it Chris Leak? [2:04:30] his freshman year where he kind of came in off the bench and rotate a little bit. [2:04:34] Would handle the inverted veer and the inside running. Essentially, it was a fullback and would handle short yardage, goal line, and some run plays, right? Yeah. [2:04:46] He did that for three years at North Dakota State. He was a runner.

[2:04:50] who was kind of utilizing this gimmicky, not gimmicky, but in a sub package role, if you will. Yeah. Gets the starting job this year. [2:04:58] He's also a lefty. [2:05:00] He's also got a tight upper body. [2:05:02] And the first 20 throws I watched of him and as I'm watching and I did his background of what he is, I'm like, oh, Tebow. And I'm like, oh. [2:05:09] Tim and I are good. Yeah. After a tumultuous start to our relationship. Yeah. But, um, [2:05:15] But I just did not see it with Tim Tebow coming out and it became like this big thing. [2:05:20] So I had to get over the Tebow effect, right? [2:05:23] Cole Payton from North Dakota state might be the third best prospect. I'm not saying he's there now, but a guy who could come in kind of like Seattle was trying to use Jalen Milrow, short yardage goal lines, kind of play that role. [2:05:36] And, [2:05:37] develop into a starter. He's mobile. He throws the ball well on the run. He's deadly accurate. And it's the weirdest thing because all of his mechanics look horrible, like tight upper body, southpaw, all that. I think he could go ahead of Nussmeier. [2:05:50] and Carson Beck. You have him 65th on your big board. [2:05:54] Yep. I think he could wind up going in the second round. And I'll be shocked if he doesn't go in the third. [2:06:00] And I'll be, I honestly think he could be the third quarterback off the board. [2:06:04] And I don't think anyone's really talking about this guy. [2:06:07] Gotta say great name. [2:06:08] Cole Payton just sounds like somebody who would be good. That sounds like a sports movie. Quarterback or NASCAR, right? Channing Tatum plays Cole Payton. [2:06:20] That's a great name. So Carson Beck, even though he's in his mid-20s and had 100 college starts, you have him 100th?

[2:06:28] Nobody's going to talk themselves into him in like the late second round or anything? He'll... [2:06:32] It could be. [2:06:34] I don't trust. I don't, I don't trust them. Um, [2:06:38] I don't think he's unique because he's a big pocket passer and he can be accurate and he played his best ball down the stretch. [2:06:46] And he, outside of two games where he had multiple interceptions, he really protected the ball and did a lot of the things that kind of cursed him. [2:06:54] Um, [2:06:56] I like this experience. I like [2:06:58] the size and I like the toughness and all those things. I just, [2:07:03] I don't know. I've, [2:07:04] call it a bad taste in my mouth, the elbow surgery. Why does Georgia, why does Georgia let Carson Beck go? They have plenty of money to bring him back. Like, like, [2:07:12] I don't know. It's going to be interesting to see. I've heard the Steelers are kind of intrigued with him on day two and a couple other organizations. He'll go. [2:07:19] He'll go on day two. [2:07:21] But, um... [2:07:22] But I would take Cole Payton before him. [2:07:25] So it doesn't sound like you have your Tyler Shook yet. [2:07:28] maybe maybe they call payton's my tyler shuck so you but tyler shuck you were like this guy could actually start next year watch what happens like you're pretty adamant this is a different kind of yeah this is yeah this is like yeah i'm doing the best with what i got yeah yeah okay all right so it's theringer.com slash mcshay [2:07:48] it's just an NFL draft smorgasbord. Um, and also, uh, [2:07:53] the McShay show, and then you're coming out to LA and you're going to do a bunch of, [2:07:56] live shows that we're going to do on Netflix. Yeah, I'm pumped. And don't forget about the newsletter.

[2:08:01] which is indispensable. [2:08:04] And we did a second round mock on that. It's going to be a lot of intel coming up. It's going to be the additional bonus stuff. So yeah, between the news site, the newsletter, and the show, we're pumped. We've got exactly what we need, man. And I'm going to have you on one more time before the draft. I'm sure there will be a million things that change, but this is fun. Thank you for getting me re-energized about this draft. That's kind of like lukewarm out. You're welcome. No, I'm excited. Good to see you, McShay. Good. Good to see you, bud. All right. That's it for the podcast. [2:08:34] Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to McShay. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well. Don't forget, rewatchables went up. We did the nice guys. LA Confidential coming next Monday. So you have... [2:08:44] Five days to watch a really, really great movie before you do a listen for our little four-person podcast, which includes Andy Greenwald for this one. First time he's been on. [2:08:54] in a while. It was great to see him. Me, Andy, Sean, and Chris, we had a blast. So there you go. All right. I'm going to be back on this feed on Thursday with a lot of basketball stuff, and maybe even a little baseball too. Stay tuned. See you on Thursday. [2:09:22] We saw. [2:09:24] So. [2:09:25] Thank you. [2:09:27] Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLE or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call [redacted government id] or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org or call [redacted phone] for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE.

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