Talking Dateline: Bringing Jay Home

[00:02] Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' safest new car brand. It starts with our approach. Every Mazda comes standard with proactive safety features. So you're more aware of what's around you, more focused on the road ahead, and ready before problems ever start. [00:19] Mazda. More of what matters most to you. Go to mazdausa.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse or promote any product. [00:30] Thank you. [00:30] This episode is brought to you by Penn Foster. [00:33] Sometimes things don't go as planned, especially with high school. [00:38] When you start to feel like you're falling behind, [00:41] Having another option can make a real difference. [00:44] Penn Foster High School is an accredited online diploma program [00:49] built for flexibility. [00:51] So whether you're hoping to go back and finish what you started, [00:54] Or you're the parent of a teen who needs a different approach to education. [00:58] There is a way forward. [01:00] With self-paced courses, you have the freedom to learn on your own schedule. [01:05] That way you can fit school around everything else going on in your life and stop falling behind. [01:11] Don't just get back on track. Start moving forward with Penn Foster. [01:16] Visit penfoster.edu slash dateline to learn more. [01:23] Hey everyone, I'm Andrea Canning and we are talking Dateline. Today I'm here with Blaine Alexander who will be talking about her episode, Bringing Jay Home. If you haven't seen it, you can find it in the Dateline podcast feed. So go there and listen to it or stream it on Peacock and then come back here. For this talking Dateline, we have a podcast exclusive

[01:50] that you had and comments from social media. And there were a lot. [01:54] Blaine, thank you for sharing Jay's story with the world. Yeah, of course. Of course. I really, really enjoy telling the story and getting to know him while reporting on this. [02:05] Yeah, I feel like we all really got to know Jay from your story. And then some I mean, that was one of the best datelines I've seen getting a glimpse into that person's life. You know, it was very rich. Could you just recap the story for us first? [02:35] He was an out and proud gay man. I mean, he was very, very well-known in the LGBTQ community. He was just very vivacious, but also had this desire to give back to communities. I mean, I think one of the details that really struck me was that on the day that he disappeared, he was set to hold a baby formula drive. It was something that he had organized, and then he went missing. [03:05] on because he would never miss this. So he goes missing. It was his mom's birthday and he didn't call her. And so immediately his mom knew, okay, something's wrong. They reach out to Ole Miss police and police go look at his apartment. They come across security video that shows that he left his apartment, came back, and then left again early in the morning. And they noticed that he's holding his cell phone like this, right? The same way that we would all hold our cell phone if we're talking to someone on speaker. And they come to find out that he's going to have a sexual

[03:35] encounter with another man. And through Snapchat, through kind of tracking things down, they come to find out that it's a young man named Tim Harrington, who there was no indication that he was gay at all. And police put together this case that Tim Harrington ultimately killed Jay Lee, strangled him to death in his apartment, wrapped his body in moving blankets and duct tape, [04:05] that he was going to out him as being gay. [04:07] Wow. And in the first trial, the first trial ended in a mistrial because one juror just couldn't get over the fact that there was no body. Investigators still hadn't found Jay Lee's body. Not too long after that, though, Andrea, they found Jay Lee's body. And they were headed for a second trial, and he took a plea deal and sentenced to 40 years in prison. Thank goodness he put the family... [04:31] out of their misery from that perspective, you know, from having to sit through a trial again, from having to go through all of that. And it spared Jaylee's mom from having to testify again, Miss Stephanie. She would have had to take the stand again. Blaine, you know, all these missing persons cases, you know, they start with, you know, a text that doesn't go answered, a phone call that doesn't get returned. And, you know, everyone feels the same, I think, in the beginning, [05:01] you know, eventually, sadly... [05:02] In a lot of these cases, they don't. In this case, it was interesting because right off the bat,

[05:08] This hit me because, you know, Miss Stephanie's birthday is July 8th, which is my dad's birthday. And, you know, so I thought right away, I was like, you know, the first thing on my mind on July 8th when I wake up is I have to call my dad. You know, this is a special day. You don't ever forget your parents' birthday. Of course. And so, you know, it was just... [05:30] So understandable that a mom with a son like Jay would expect that phone call very quickly. That's exactly it. So it's funny you say that. My birthday's July 9th. And so I thought like, okay, like as a mom, like that just hit me too, right? From like a mother's perspective. Yes, this was an incredibly close family. I mean, talking, texting every day throughout the day, which again, college kids, you don't typically see that with their parents, right? [06:00] Birthday of all days. He's like radio silent. She immediately said, oh, no, no, no, no, this isn't right. In fact, she and her husband, Mr. Jimmy, they were driving down to Biloxi to kind of just go on a little vacation. And she said, no, turn the car around. We need to go to Oxford. We need to go check on him because something is wrong when she kept calling him and, you know, and when his location was off. She just knew immediately. [06:30] a pastor, you know, that, you know, [06:32] He was so accepted by his family. And I love what the dad said, be who you are or nothing at all. I mean, I think that this, there were so many aspects of this that you could look at this story and just have a bunch of stereotypes, right? Like, this is the South. These are very, I mean, very, you know, God-fearing religious family. Dad's a minister. All of these many things.

[07:02] you're looking at, especially when it comes to religion in the Black community, like not typically and historically very accepting of the LGBTQ community. And so all of these things, though, that was not the case with the Lee family. I mean, Jay had no fear in being who he was. It did not [07:20] impact his relationship with his mom or his dad or sister or anybody in the family. And they were just as beautiful and as loving. And I asked Tayla during our interview, we talked for like three plus hours. And I said, where did that confidence come from? And she said, it was our family. I mean, we knew that we were loved. There was not a moment that we walked outside of that house that we had any question as to whether we were loved, whether we were supported. And she said, and especially their mom really instilled this confidence and just kind of [07:50] you do, do it confidently. And it was so beautiful to see that really, really come to play as I got to know Jay throughout the course of the story. He was very clearly a fun person, right? His style was amazing. I mean, his sister and I talked about it. He would dress. He was just out there. His dog alone. [08:09] His dog, Lexi. Yes. I mean, the dog with the pink goggles. Lexi. Lexi would come to class. Lexi was, I mean, Lexi was just an icon, right? But yes, he performed in drag shows. We actually went to one of the shows where he would have performed in the course of shooting this, which was a fun and amazing experience. You have all these, like... [08:32] Young college students. And then we walked in with our cameras and were decidedly older than college. And so, I mean, they were kind. You look like you're in college. You blended right in. I'm jealous. It was just funny. It was hilarious to be in the midst of it. But it was cool to just see his world and see his community and everybody being there. It was really special. Yeah. If we all could have that much confidence, you know, I'm sure people saw him and thought, you know, I can do this.

[09:02] You know, friend Jose actually told me Jose who we met in the story told me that it was Jay Lee who inspired him to go perform in drag shows inspired him to be open, you know, kind of about who he was and that so he really was a beacon for a lot of people right there in Oxford. When we come back, we've got an extra clip from Blaine's interview with Jay's parents. [09:24] Insurance is not one-size-fits-all. That's why drivers of trusted progressives' name-your-price tool for years. [09:33] Just tell Progressive what you want to pay. [09:35] And they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget. [09:38] Visit Progressive.com to find a car insurance rate that works for you. [09:43] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company & Affiliates. Price and coverage match? Limited by state law. Shell V-Power Nitro Plus fuels every drive with a fuel like no other. It removes up to 100% of performance robbing deposits to rejuvenate your engine's performance. That means more power when you need it and more performance with every drive. Shell V-Power Nitro Plus Premium Gasoline. More [10:13] injectors with continuous use of shell v power nitro plus premium gasoline compared to lower octane fuels actual effects and benefits may vary [10:18] The wrongs we must right. The fights we must win. The future we must secure together for our nation. This is what's in front of us. This determines what's next for all of us. We are Marines. We were made for this.

[10:50] You know, the thing that I thought early on was I thought, could this be a hate crime? [10:57] Right. It's you know, it's interesting. And I and I thought about this, too. When I spoke with Jose and Braylon, they talked about the fact that before Jaylee went missing, there were two murders of transgender people there in the state of Mississippi. And so they were thinking, OK, like what is happening? Like, could this be an attack on the community? And so it did kind of put a lot of people in this kind of place of just fear and like trying to watch out while at the same time wondering if police were going to do anything about this. [11:27] friends and family as to how the police would handle this because, um, you know, uh, [11:32] Jay is a person of color. Jay is gay. But it was the opposite reaction from the police, the Oxford police chief. He was Mr. Emotional and Mr. I'm not quitting until I solve this case. And I'm like, he was amazing. [12:02] Creekmore, the DA. I mean, they were tearing up thinking about the moment that they found Jaylee's body, the pain that the family went through. And, you know, several things. One, Oxford is a college town, right? Like everything revolves around Ole Miss. And so you think about, okay, like either I have college age kids or my kids will one day be in college, or you can kind of just put yourself in this feeling of, oh my God, I don't know where my child is when they've gone off to college. And I think any parent can kind of identify with that. And that's a terrifying

[12:32] Um, [12:33] I also think that for Chief McCutcheon and Mr. Jimmy, Jay's dad, Faith really bonded them. I mean, they both talked about times that they would pray together. They both talked about times when, I mean, the police really put a lot into this. The chief told me at one point, okay, it's like, we're going to take an ibuprofen, get some rest, and then we're going to get right back at it. Like, they were going around the cough, drink some coffee, you know, and then we're going at it. And so they were putting their heart and soul into this, and it gets hard for them. They weren't able to find Jay, right, or bring his remains home. [13:03] really leaning on each other through the course of this. And I have to say one thing that's interesting that didn't make it into our story, Chief McCutcheon had actually met Jay Lee at one point about six months before he disappeared. Yes. He told me that there was this kind of round table that they had for community leaders and Jay was doing an internship at Child Protective Services there in Oxford. So Jay was part of this meeting and he comes in, he sits down and the chief said immediately his personality was just on display. He was like, I'm Jay Lee. Who were you? [13:33] Okay, great. I mean, just talking to people like, this is what we're going to do for the kids. And he said that left a mark on him. And so then when the missing persons case came in, he said, oh, my God, like, I know this kid. I remember him, right? And so you put all these things together. And yes, it was... [13:48] It was certainly something that was emotional. I was like cheering him on, you know, as you took us through this investigation. [13:55] He just, he's an amazing man. And also some really good, there was really good detective work. [14:02] in this case as well. Good observations. I wouldn't have noticed the phone. You know, when I watched it, I didn't think about the phone being, you know, flat like that, that he was on the phone with somebody. And then we get into, you know, the technology of it all. And we hear this over and over and over again. These police departments, families trying to get messages, information from social media platforms like Snapchat, and they get shut down.

[14:32] Again and again and again. And I just did a dateline where they had to hire, they hired some professor who was essentially like a hacker, you know, professor slash hacker who like got into it or whatever. And so – [14:46] I was so... [14:48] impressed with Jay's parents and this Jay Lee bill that they're working on. I mean, I can't think of a better... [14:57] way to honor his life, if they can get this passed, that law enforcement can get access to people under 21 into their social media accounts and beyond. I mean, that is so smart. It is. It is. And I would say it seems like a common sense type of thing, because if you want to find where a young person is, not to sound old, if you're trying to find a young person, but social media is the way. I mean, right? He was communicating through Snapchat the way that [15:27] communicate via text, right? And so that is easily the quickest digital footprint, the quickest way to figure out where they are, who they've been talking to, what they've been doing. And, you know, in talking with Mr. Jimmy, he was just like, this was a constant just source of torture for them because they knew something had happened. It wasn't this question of, oh gosh, maybe he's, no, they were like, something's happened to our child. Yeah. [15:51] They're waiting day after day after day after day. They want to bring him home. And they're fighting this kind of battle of we know our son is always online. We know he's always out here posting. Let us get access and we can tell you exactly what happened. And that was just so hard for them. It's not like anybody's asking for, hey, we need to just be able to get into everybody's social media at all times. No. If a person goes missing and they are under age, right, and we're talking about a missing person's case where days count, where moments count, hours count, then let us in. So we'll certainly be following it, though.

[16:21] I look forward to a follow-up on that. So, you know, it was Khaled said something that was quite the foreshadow when he told Jay that... [16:33] stay away from the DLs, you know, the down-lows, because they're trouble, he said. And, you know, [16:41] You can see that, right, on one hand, because you're not – one of the things about Jay is that he was his authentic self, and that's why he was happy. Yeah. When I always – I believe – how can you be happy if you can't be your true self? Yeah. Not only that, you're living in a constant state of fear that somebody is going to discover who your true self is. And so, what does that do to your – [17:04] What does that do to your nervous system? What does that do to the way that you walk through life? If you're always waiting on a domino to fall for your secret to be exposed, for this kind of carefully created facade that you've put up to just completely be shattered. I was struck, Andrea, by the incredible parallels between Jay Lee and Tim Harrington. [17:23] Both of them from Mississippi. Both of them go to Ole Miss. Both of them headed to grad school. Both of them had bright futures. Like, let's be very, very clear. Jay Lee and Tim Harrington. I mean, Tim Harrington. Tim too. Yes, started a moving company. He's got a profitable little business. He's on podcasts. He's in interviews. He's in the Black Student Union. He's kind of that kid that, you know, when you get to college, you're like, oh, who's the upperclassman that I look up to? Oh, he was one of those people, right? I mean. Absolutely. Spent time in his church. Influential father. Influential grandfather.

[17:53] whole package. And again, very similar to Jay Lee, families rooted in faith. Both fathers were ministers, right? Like all of this going on. And there was a very big difference in that Jay was living authentically [18:07] And Tim Harrington was not. [18:08] And that really made all the difference. And the fact that their lives intersected in the way that they did was just unbelievable. I think that there's so much to be said about yes, being your authentic self. And I think that... [18:24] In this fear, that message that he confessed set him off of, I want to be able to say that I had you on the down low. It's the question of, gosh, what are people going to think of me? What are my families going to think of me? And of course, I'm not inside Tim Harrington's mind. I didn't speak with him. Of course, we tried to. His parents, his mom actually sent me a brief email and just said, we're going to let the attorney speak for our family and certainly understand what they're going through, right? Like this is a very difficult situation for them as well. Yeah. [18:53] So the biggest problem, as you mentioned, Blaine, off the top, was that they had not found a body, right? They had not found Jay's body in the beginning, of course. Then they make that horrible discovery. And we have some extra sound from Jay's parents, their interview with you, about finding Jay's body, their son, and what happened after that. Sure. You talked about... [19:17] Once Jay was found, even just by his skeleton, you could tell that was your son. [19:23] And you...

[19:25] We're very intentional about wanting to say your own goodbye to him, touching his remains. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? [19:32] Well, um... [19:34] You know, we oftentimes, I know probably [19:37] you know, in a... [19:39] mostly it is [19:40] about this Holocaust, you know, oftentimes, you know, they touched on the forehead, prayer, [19:50] cut his forehead and [19:52] you know, [19:53] You all know that I don't. [19:56] And... [19:57] you know, make sure you know, I see you. [20:00] - Mm-hmm. - Yeah. [20:02] He knew [20:03] You know, he knew that [20:05] mom and dad and the rest of the family. [20:08] Uh-huh. [20:10] I [20:11] You know, sometimes we can't always get what's wrong. I would love seeing him grow up and [20:16] you know, the mooring... [20:18] do things within this country or abroad, just, just, [20:24] I feel like I had confidence that he would be experienced successful. I mean, maybe, you know, just a [20:31] Her dad just got a lot of company in the sun or whatever, but I just believe he was... [20:36] He's gone with ease. [20:38] Definitely something out of here. Yeah, definitely. [20:40] I think [20:42] He was just what God wanted him to be. [20:45] And he touched people's lives. He made a difference. And I think through you guys, he's going to continue to make a difference. [20:53] And he will, I do feel he will make a difference with this possible bill that will help other young people who go missing. Wasn't that just the most heart-wrenching thing, though, to hear him say, I mean, basically he's saying that he kissed...

[21:07] the skeletal remains of his son, right? In this, like, I want him to know that he's loved. I want him to feel that he's loved. And so, again, this through line of just like this deep love that these parents have for their kids, that was right there until the end. And I think that one was one where... [21:25] I've done now a good number of just these interviews. That one just really touched me when he said that, like gave me chills and kind of just rocked me in my core because I can't imagine just a father having like this is all that's physically left of your child and wanting to still show that love and that embrace. Absolutely. I think that. [21:46] them telling Jaylee's story, I know was something that was difficult for them, but I'm so grateful that they did because they really were able to bring him to life in such a way. Yeah. I was going to say the same thing. I'm so glad they did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That put me back to my first job, which was in Mississippi. It was fun to hear again, Miss Stephanie, because I remember when I moved to Mississippi, everything was Miss Andrea, Miss Andrea. And I [22:16] call me Miss Andrea. But that's how people would address me, which was hilarious. It's like a southern thing. And the funny thing is, mind you, I don't do that in every interview, but it was just something about sitting down with them. They just gave them. I just like, you can't just be Stephanie. You're Miss Stephanie. You're Mr. Jimmy. It's just, I love that. I love that. I also said, I also love how you said it was something I wrote it down. It was like, oh, full boil with Tim, right? In the interview room. Because usually I say it's

[22:46] And you came up with full boil. So I'm like, okay, good. We've both got our ways that we want to say when things are getting hot. Exactly. Exactly. We're going to take a short break and we'll be back to talk about your questions and comments from social media. [23:03] Hey, this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy. Live and uncensored, catch me talking with my friends about my latest obsessions, relationship issues, and bodily ailments. With that kind of drama that seems to follow me, you never know what's going to happen. You can listen to Jeff Lewis live at home or anywhere you are. Download the SiriusXM app for over 425 channels of ad-free music, sports, entertainment, and more. Subscribe now and get three months free. Offer details apply. [23:35] The wrongs we must right. The fights we must win. The future we must secure together for our nation. This is what's in front of us. This determines what's next for all of us. We are Marines. We were made for this. [24:03] The biggest tournament in soccer is finally here, and I've already started planning my watch parties. My go-to move is stopping at Total Wine & More to grab drinks. Wine, beer, seltzers, maybe a few ready-to-drink options. Everything we need for a full day of matches. It definitely helps knowing you're getting the lowest prices. Get match day ready with Total Wine & More today, so you're set from kickoff to the final whistle.

[24:26] Spirits are not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. [24:30] Must be 21. [24:32] Let's talk about some of the social media comments and our viewers' comments and questions. [24:41] Would love to. You know, we got so many comments from people on this one, people saying they're moved to tears about the story. What a great job you all did. So let's start with Barbara Teed. She says there was another Dateline episode about an officer on the DL married with a baby, had an affair with a gay resident. He stopped on patrol and murdered him when he threatened to expose him. Oh, gosh. Yeah, this was Keith's episode before daylight. [25:11] Okay. And this was a Missouri college student named Jesse James Valencia murdered in 2004 by the police officer he was secretly seeing. So this, again, goes back to the dangers of DL, what Khaled talked about. [25:41] when the down low thing, when Khalid mentioned that, everybody was like, oh, like people were kind of like, oh, we know where this is going. It's going to be somebody who's, you know, who's closeted, who's not trying to, like people just saw that coming. Right. And also we just want to say not everyone who's in the closet is bad or has rage issues or, you know, we're not, we're not trying to say that this is like all people who are not ready to be their authentic self. Yes. But we just are saying it happens. I'm very glad you made that point. Cause that's

[26:11] Winston at Pee Wee Winston said what I was thinking, no body, no DNA, you know, definitely like there was some reasonable doubt there. I mean, there were a lot of things, you know, that they didn't have before the body was found. [26:27] I think that, you know, even if there's no body, sometimes you can look and say, okay, there were traces of blood. There was nothing. There was no physical evidence. And, you know, I mean, they summed it up perfectly. How do you... [26:40] You know, convince a jury of murder when you can't even prove that someone is dead conclusively. Like a judge had declared Jay Lee dead at that point, had legally declared him dead. But again, nobody, no traces of DNA, anything like that. I should point out, too, there was a significant amount of time, almost two weeks, about 10 days or so, between when he went missing and when police ultimately questioned Tim Harrington. [27:10] been there. And so that's what they pointed to. But at the end of the day, yes, a tremendous amount of reasonable doubt for sure. Nesty Smith said, I knew the duct tape would nail him. Leah Jarrett Hedgepeth on Facebook asks, what happened to his doggie? Oh, Lexi. Lexi went to live with Tayla, Jay's sister, and lived. Actually, this is unbelievable, but she brought Lexi to Oxford for our interview. And we were supposed to meet Lexi, but things went [27:40] okay, we'll meet her next week when we come back to Jackson. She died.

[27:43] Lexi died three days after our interview. Completely unexpected. And we were going to meet her. It was – but she lived a long life. She was 23 years old. That is a long life for a little dog like that. And also, given the family's feelings about God and religion, Jaylee and Lexi are together again. [28:05] Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. That's the silver lining there, right? Okay. And we have a comment from Lisa J. Miller at Lisa J. Miller.com. [28:14] CO as in Colorado. She's a detective out of Colorado who's been featured multiple times on Dateline, including in Keith's episode while she was sleeping and on our podcast after the verdict. And she says, I'm grateful the Dateline community gets to see these officers caring, good humans doing the right things and the right way for the right reasons. Most that wear the badge are good humans. Grateful these particular humans were on this case. Thank you. Well, Lisa, I'm glad to hear that. Lisa, thank you for writing that because you're right. I mean, [28:44] I'm so glad that we were able to just really shine a light on their heart through this process. Of course, their investigative prowess, their work, all of that, but just show their heart in who they were and the type of emotion and genuine caring that they brought to this case. [29:00] And on a different note, Dateline will be off for the next few weeks for the Winter Olympics. And Amy Gatch on Facebook asked with the Olympics airing for the next few weeks, what will you do during this time? Will you take time off or work on other stories?

[29:13] Time off. Time off. What is this you speak of? What? [29:19] We will be working. We will be, gosh, shooting. I know I've got shoots. I'm sure you have shoots coming up. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's what we do, right? Just keep working. And then as soon as the Olympics are over, we'll be back at you with new episodes. That's what we're doing. We're working in the off time to make sure that we've got all the new episodes ready to go. Just fire them out the gate. Exactly. Blaine, thank you for this, I want to say, very special. [29:43] date line because it really was a lot of ground was covered in a lot of different societal issues with this one. So thank you. [29:51] That means a lot to me, Andrea. It really does. So that's what we hoped to do. So I really appreciate you saying that. Thank you. [30:22] With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. He wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. [30:40] What's in your wallet? [30:41] Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC.