Rashida Jones

[00:00] This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking your pockets before putting clothes in the washer? [00:09] Oof. Enjoy your freshly cleaned and completely destroyed earbuds. Yeah, checking first is a good plan. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. [00:29] . [00:34] Hi, welcome to another episode of Good Hang. I cannot wait to have you hear this episode with the great Rashida Jones, the Anne to my Leslie, my wife for life. Rashida is a [00:48] Just... [00:49] one of my best friends and she's just an incredible person and, [00:53] interview and she's so deep and smart and funny. And we're going to talk about what it's like working together. And we're going to talk about our relationship to work and what makes a good gift giver and how much we both love music. We're going to go deep and then stay real shallow all at the same time. So it's going to be a lot of fun. And, you know, we've been trying to do this thing where before I interview a guest, I get to talk to people who know them, who are fans of them [01:24] you know, give me some ideas for what to ask them. So, [01:28] We have gathered two great comedic actresses, Retta from Parks and Rec, who played Donna Meagle, and Darcy Carden from The Good Place. So they're going to help me get started.

[01:42] This episode is presented by the Toyota Grand Highlander. Life's journey brings constant change filled with exciting surprises, new chapters, and grand challenges. And the Toyota Grand Highlander is more than a vehicle. It's your partner in embracing all life throws at you. [01:58] Kids have grown up. The third row can fit three adults. From daily routines to life-changing adventures, the Toyota Grand Highlander is up for every grand challenge. Learn more at toyota.com slash Grand Highlander. Toyota. [02:12] Let's go places. [02:42] Honestly, it's kind of overwhelming because she does so many things. Yeah. [02:49] Yeah. [02:50] Mm hmm. She's what is it called? A polymath? Is that the word? But what's the math? Yeah. [02:59] It's so many maths. I was thinking the same thing. I was thinking like, um, [03:05] She's so unique in that. [03:08] There's not, she's not, you know, even to introduce her, I don't know how you, what you would even say. She's not, I mean, she's, there's so many things to list and not just.

[03:17] in her career but in her life. [03:19] She's so many things to so many people, and she's so good at all of it. [03:24] And yet, [03:26] That doesn't bother me. I'm not, like, annoyed by that. As I'm saying it, I'm not, like, rolling my eyes. I'm like, she really... [03:32] does it all and she does it so well and in such an inspiring way. [03:37] I agree. [03:38] To me, she's the lawyer in the group. [03:41] When people have like an outrageous idea or plan or think they can fix something in a certain way, I feel like Ra is the person that's like, okay, everybody relax. [03:50] here's what we're going to do. Here's what we're going to do. This is how we fix it. Or let me, let me just make a call. Or I feel like, [03:57] Even though she's not an attorney, she's the attorney of the group that she's in. [04:01] Yeah. Is that weird? [04:03] No, that's really well said. What makes Rashida a good hang? Well, she's super funny. [04:10] And she also loves to laugh. So she makes you feel super funny. Right? [04:18] Yeah. Which is great. She's on it. She's really on it. She's just like, she's, um, [04:24] Thank you. [04:25] sharp and like in every way I can think of. Yes. And so, and like, so stylish and cool. Totally. Like, like beyond cool. It's actually oppressive. It's a lot. Somehow doesn't make me feel shitty again. No, never. But I do, but I make myself feel shitty because sometimes I'm just like, damn it. Like what we're wearing Japanese pants now. No one told me. I know, but the thing is,

[04:55] of a sudden i'm like oh my clothes are small they're supposed to be big like do we have bangs we don't have bangs we don't work big coats little coats okay no long hair now okay okay okay yeah glasses small glasses little coats i don't know that she's ever done little coats maybe before i knew her i've only seen her in big coats the only the only people on parks doing little coats were [05:25] lifting up a coat and being like, whose coat is this? And it was Aziz's little coat. [05:31] She's like a host, right? She's like a good host. And I think... [05:36] um, [05:37] Maybe that's one of the reasons she's such a good hang is because she like really appreciates the... [05:42] the hang portion. Like she's, [05:44] putting in the time to make the hang like pleasurable, right? Yes. Like I don't feel a stressy vibe from her when she's hosting, for example. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. [05:55] Like I'm always working out on my I'm always working out my own stuff, which is. [06:00] wanting to get things like wanting it to be good and fun and being and people coming over and saying like hi yeah and me saying just a second like making them feel making them feel stressed even though i had the party [06:14] Or like explaining something like don't go in this room or if you do, this is what's going on. [06:19] Or you got to hold the toilet down, the handle down. Yes. Oh, my God. [06:24] Or someone's like, can I give you a hand? And you just go, no, that's OK. I just have a lot of things right now that I'm dealing with. Everyone looks at you and says, you did not have to invite us. You did not have to invite us. You begged us to come over.

[06:40] The other the other question I had is. [06:43] Um, [06:45] I want to talk to her about dancing because... [06:50] We dance a lot together. She's had a lot of dance parties for her birthday parties. And you two are big dancers. [06:57] You both like to dance. I know why I like to dance at parties. Yes. Why do you like to dance at parties? I think about connecting with people while dancing. Like, Amy, I can think of a wedding we were at where we didn't know each other that well. It was like early days of friendship. And we just like danced at a wedding. And I felt closer to you afterwards. I felt like, you know what I mean? We just kind of pointed at each other. [07:22] And then afterwards, you're like, we took a step. We leveled up. [07:27] is really doing some good pointing right now. [07:32] Um... [07:33] I am drawn to, [07:35] to people. [07:37] who I feel really vibe with music and, and, and don't look crazy. [07:45] dancing, you know? There's like... [07:48] especially like when we were younger, high school and college, like, [07:52] White boys with rhythm were like, you couldn't get enough. Like I was just like, and I remember that. [08:01] And I will say one of Rashida's birthday parties, [08:04] One of the most impressive dancers ever, [08:09] that I didn't see coming was Max Greenfield.

[08:14] Yes. Max can move. Yeah. [08:18] And the feeling that I got seeing him dance is the feeling I won't be put at when they see me dance. Yeah, I feel like if a good song comes on, both of you and Rashida would be the people I would look at, point at, and be like, oh. I was just going to say the noise you would make would be like, oh. [08:42] Oh. [08:46] Oh, shit. [08:48] - Hey, here we go. - Okay, well we're gonna, okay, this is perfect. I'll wrap it up with, is there any question you think, like anything you want me to ask Rashida? - It's simple, it's a simple question, but I think my question for Rashida specifically is, when you were a little kid, [09:08] What did you want to be when you grow up or what did you see your adult life looking like? I think, what did you want to be when you grow up? Because I think because she, you know, like it's such a unique childhood where she, [09:20] where it kind of was like the endless possibilities of what you could possibly do. And it seems like, you know, that maybe that's one of the reasons she does so much and is so good at so many different things. But the simple question, I think, is when you were a little kid, what did you want to be when you grew up? [09:34] That's a great question. [09:36] Mine would be, it's also a childhood question. [09:39] What was the coolest thing that, [09:42] that ever happened to you. [09:43] as a kid because she's been around so many cool things. What, what really was the,

[09:51] the thing that she remembers the most and was the most exciting for her. That's probably going to be hard to pick. I know. [10:00] Because she was straight up. So you might get a few. You might get a few things. Like partying with E.T. and stuff. [10:07] Well, love you guys. Thank you for checking in. I know it means a lot to squeeze this time in, and Rashida is going to be so grateful when I tell her that we chatted today. [10:21] Can't wait. Can't wait. Hanggang. Thank you. So hanggang. Hanggang. Love you guys. Okay. Love you guys. [10:31] This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Uber Eats is delivering game day deals because you can't watch eight hours of basketball a day on an empty stomach. I love to watch TV on my couch and then never get back up. And so once I'm down, it's hard to, uh, to stand and I definitely don't [10:51] So Uber Eats delivers my food to me, and then I shuffle over to my door in my pajamas, and I grab the food. So whatever you're craving, Uber Eats has deals on all your game day favorites. You never have to miss a single buzzer beater. Get game day deals on all your favorites, only on Uber Eats. Order now. [11:12] Rashida Jones is here. [11:14] Hi, Rashida. Hi, Amy. I mean, people should know that I call you Bones. So maybe if I call you Bones during the interview. Don't know. Yeah. And I call you Poles, Polos. Polos. So Poles are Polos and Bones. Polos and Bones. The new detective series. CBS. Yeah. I'm Paramount minus. Okay. Bones, I'm so happy you're here. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for doing this. Please. On the way over, you just told me you were listening to something in your car.

[11:44] um [11:44] I'm really into frequencies right now. You know, there's like a lot of... [11:48] stuff theories around like the frequency of sounds and how it impacts your brain and your mood. There's ones for anxiety, for sleep, for happiness, for abundance, whatever. But I was listening to one for road rage. [12:02] Because you have road rage? I do. I've seen it in action. Yeah. Because we leave each other Marco Polos and I've seen you in real time get mad. Yeah. For people that are listening that don't know, Rashida and I have been friends for a [12:18] Many years. It's got to be over 20 now. Over 20 plus. And whenever we see each other, [12:25] We just jump in. Like we talk a lot about we just kind of jump into the deep end. Yeah, always. We get into feelings. We get into what we're trying to work on, what we're excited about. Like we just get right in there. We don't do a lot of small talk. Not a lot of small talk. [12:44] I feel like you are that way, or I can speak for myself. I feel like I'm more and more that way with the people that I'm closest to. And the people that I'm not particularly close to are the people that I say, like, what movies do you like? Right. Right. [12:55] Yeah. And I find, I don't know about you, but I find that my tolerance for small talk has changed. Like I used to, I used to like it and feel like it was a, it was just kind of like a way to tiptoe into a conversation. And now it feels like, why bother? Let's just get into it. I know. Let's not waste time. What are you afraid of? What are you afraid of? What are you working on? Yeah. No, no, not, not your actual job, but yourself, your inner self. What are you working on? What's your love language? What's your attachment style? Um, Tina and I had a good

[13:25] we were laughing talking about um harvard fuck harvard yeah fuck harvard yeah so for people that don't know what is your relationship with harvard and what was your relationship with hasty pudding [13:37] Oh, interesting. I was just thinking about this last night, actually. Well, first of all, I just want to say I'm very happy that you have this podcast because I'm just going to say I have been encouraging people. [13:47] I've wanted this from you for a very long time. Thanks, bud. Okay, sorry. I just had to say that. Thanks, Dee. Okay, Harvard, Hasty Pudding. Yeah, I mean, I went to Harvard. Yay. I was in the Hasty Pudding Theatricals. But they didn't allow women. At the time, women couldn't perform. I was a manager. I was manager of the Woman of the Year event, which you've been. Yeah. I'm sure I have not. Thank you so much, Hasty Pudding Theatricals. What? [14:17] alum. But anyway. Wow. We need to correct that. Whoever's listening. Yeah. Anyway. And then my senior year, Mimi, my friend Mimi, who, you know, we were the first women ever to write the music for the musical in the, in the like, whatever, 400 year history of the show. But you, no one was allowed to sing it because it was written by women. I couldn't sing it. No, of course not. Wow. Yeah. And then when I went back for class day, that was kind of like the one thing I snuck into my speech. Well, actually it was very political, but the one thing about school I [14:47] Make it co-ed. I mean, enough's enough. And now it is. It is, right? It is. [14:51] Finally. Yeah, that seems so silly. It's so silly, but I will say it was really fun. And I learned a lot. I learned a lot about production because it's a it's legit production. You travel to New York and Bermuda and everybody has to like chip in and work on tickets and costumes. And like we, you know, we got to like we had an arranger who arranged for like a full orchestra. It was so cool. And you, I know from us being friends, you started you were started going to raves. Oh, yeah, I was raving.

[15:19] Rashida was raving during Harvard. I was. And that almost took you down. Almost took me down. Or took you up. Yeah, took me up and then way down. But then I joined an acapella group and everything was fine. [15:33] Acapella saved my life. But I would say the most surprising thing is probably that what I have left from the whole experience is the people. Including Mike Schur. Including Mike Schur. [15:49] office. He was Moe's and worked. Good place. Good place. Good hand, good place. And he, wow, do you think he's going to sue me for that? [16:00] Yeah, he's very litigious. And he's working on a million other things. And you and Mike met at Harvard. Where did you guys meet? Freshman year, we did a play together called Love, Sex, and the IRS, where we were. The play started with us making out. Wow. Lucky him. [16:19] Thank you. I mean, he must have been like the day when they were like, and here's your makeout partner. It could have been anybody. He must have done a quiet fist pump. I mean, he did it while we were making out. It was so awkward. I mean, that's the thing is you just auditioned for shows, especially in college. And you're just like, who you get is who you get. Like the fact that we met. [16:44] freshman year is nuts. I'm having these like memories of when we were in, all of us were in high school and college and we'd have to do like makeout scenes with just people on stage. Yeah. And how...

[16:58] I guess exciting it was. Yeah. It was kind of exciting. So fun. I know. I mean, you've had to do quite a few love scenes in TV and film. I have, yeah. And any tips or thoughts about that? It's so weird. But also comedy makeout is so different than serious comedy. [17:15] You're so right. You know? You're right. I mean, like a real genuine... [17:20] Our friend Catherine Hahn has had to do a lot of sex scenes. Yes. [17:24] And like a genuine like baby girl five orgasm sex scene is so intense. [17:31] It is. This is my baby girl dance. I will be your father. That makes me stressed. It's stressy. It's fully stressy. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not good at it. I'm not the person to ask because I always feel stressed and weird about it because the best case scenario is that you do it and you sell some sort of chemistry, but like it's all above board and professional. That's the best case scenario. [18:00] which is like, seems impossible. Also, I did hear an actor's tip one time that I thought was interesting, which is if you want to get chemistry with someone and actually Parks and Rec did this really well, which is the camera became the gaze. Right. So like, you know, I, I, I, it, it caught me looking at Ben when, played by Adam Scott, when, when Adam wasn't looking and it created this vibe and vice versa. It was so much easier than, [18:26] direct eye contact. Totally. But I heard some trick that if you want to get chemistry with an actor, look at them when they're not looking at you. Like don't try to do it with them at all. Just project all this fantasy stuff on them when they're not paying attention to you. Does that work in real life? I've tried. And the answer is no. The answer is a hell no.

[18:56] when you had to pretend that you didn't know who Genuine was? You know, it's still one of my biggest complaints. I remember we did the table read for that. [19:05] And I was like, no, no, no one's going to buy it because I don't buy it. Okay. Pick anybody else on this cast. [19:12] to try to play that in an honest way. It is so unfair that you're making me do this. It really, yeah, it still hurts. Because how familiar are you with genuine? We were married. [19:28] Um, I mean, you know, I live in 90s R&B. That's where my heart is. It's not here. I mean, it is [19:42] very important figure. Yeah. I just want to talk for a second about your relationship to music, because it's so, it's an amazing combination of deeply familiar and personal because of your family and the work you've done since you were a little kid, like the way music has surrounded your life. And then as an adult, knowing your relationship to music, you kind of come in as like, [20:05] I don't know how else to explain it other than... [20:10] a deep appreciator of it. Like you, you know it and can do it. And also you deeply appreciate it. It's kind of closest to like an art historian or something. You know how art historians love art and they know it and they also know how it's important. I feel that you are that way about music. That's really nice. What is your relationship to music? Music to me is the kind of thing you can't, there's something inherent about it that you can't explain why it has the impact that it

[20:40] You can talk about frequencies. You can talk about combinations of notes. You can talk about BPMs. But at the end of the day, the way it makes you feel is something that's just very hard to explain, you know, in a way that feels... [20:53] if you don't believe in God, like the closest to an unknown that's outside of us, like you can tap into something outside of us in a way that like, even I love movies, but there's a visual aspect. So you don't like use your imagination as much when you're engaging with the thing. Well, do you think then you're like an oral, a URL learner more than a visual learner? I am. I am. And in fact, I'm. [21:16] It's a shameful thing, but I took a lot of piano when I was little, and I love playing piano, but I never really learned how to read properly because I learned so well by ear. So I play these like Chopin, Polonaise, like big pieces by ear. I couldn't read it because I was like just picking it up, you know? Whoa. I know. It's sort of like it would be nice to have a balance of both, but, you know, it's definitely way more oral. Oral. [21:46] Carl Roberts. Remember him? [21:50] We've had some hard ass laughs. And I was trying to think the other day, like, [21:54] places that we've laughed, deep laughs. And it's, it really does add years to my life. I know that. [22:03] And I wonder if you could tell the story about when we were on Parks and it was because we talk about it. We've talked about it before.

[22:13] When we were in parks and it was the first season, it was the hunting episode. Hmm. [22:18] And just kind of set up, we were shooting. [22:22] That whole week way far away somewhere in California, you know, [22:26] I don't even remember where. [22:28] And we had to do a scene with Nick Offerman. And that, I think about it sometimes the way that laugh came. It was like... Giggles. It was giggle, giggle, orgasm city. But don't worry, we'll cut that. But what do you remember about it? What do you want? Well, I remember we were, he maybe ate something weird and we were trying to give him Ipecac. So Nick Offerman playing Ron Swanson ate something weird. [22:56] Yeah, I don't remember actually what happened in the show. I was determined as a nurse. I was like, you have to throw up. You can't. You're going to get sick. And he's like, I'm fine. And we were trying to get this liquid in his mouth. And it's Hollywood, so things that happen on camera don't actually happen in real life. So it was written that we hold him down, and he's resisting us, and we give him this thing. [23:26] Like, you don't know. [23:29] You don't know how small you are because I think both of us, like, I'm always like, I'm like a tall person, right? Like I ask people if I feel tall. Yeah, I feel like a tall person, but I'm not. And I'm not. How tall are you? Five, three and a half. Yeah, yeah. I'm five two. And Nick is solid. Yeah. He's a solid dude. Yeah, he's like a Midwestern corn-fed dude. Yeah, dense and muscular. And he, we were trying to hold him down and he was...

[23:55] whipping us around with such ease like we couldn't we actually the both of us could not hold him down and he was like literally just go and we would just fly off the bed in each direction we could not stop one of us what we each had one arm yeah and he would it felt like just the flick of the wrist because he was being gentle he was being gentle yeah he wasn't he wasn't fighting for his [24:25] Remember that feeling. Also, I think there's something fun about wrestling. There is. So good. It's so good. And being thrown around is so fun. Yes. And... [24:35] He was throwing us around. And I feel like I just give us a picture in my mind. You were just like, like I could just see you going past me in your hair going. And then your legs going. And I just remember like, I've never seen you flying by, which can't be true. [24:55] But we were tumbling all over the floor. Like every time we got back on the bed, we were like, and we were, we were kind of like, [25:02] We were both trying to be like on top of him and then like just flipping over really quickly. And I think, too, because Nick is such a lovely, gentle guy in general, we knew there was something about us that knew we weren't going to get hurt. It was safe. Yeah. But he was making like grunting beer sounds. [25:19] It was really, really, really fun. That was a really, I mean, I'm trying to think of like, there's so many good crack up moments, crack up moments. I'm 100 years old. What a crack up. But I'm just like, I was like, there's that spot in Andy and.

[25:35] april's house remember where we could never get a scene done just that one that there's a dead spot yeah yeah it was haunted yeah and then i remember there was one time you were like rashida because i could not get through it but i really it felt like haunted it did not feel like it was my fault yeah i'm sorry i said that there was i know a couple times i would see bloopers for the show and i'd be like amy no but those days were so long they were they were long and it was fun until it wasn't you're like oh my god it's tempia we just want to go i know and the and there was a scene [26:05] care. There was a spot in that set where anyone who stood there couldn't get their lines. And then, of course, it became self-fulfilling prophecy in many ways. But there was just a lot of deep laughs and deep laughs... [26:24] Off camera, like one of the things one of the things I treasure, and there's so many things I treasure about my friendship with you, was that. [26:33] We would be talking like this and we'd be just talking and talking and just like talking about our day and talking about life. And then they would just go action. And then we would just talk like Leslie and Anne and we do our scene and be like, we kind of, I'll speak for myself, kind of knew it, kind of didn't. And then they'd, then they'd cut, they'd work on it and we would just go back to talking. Like it was like a dream job. We filmed in between our conversations. Yeah.

[27:03] pilot and they were doing one of those spy shots and we were in your office and we were talking and it was like you know other people were like oh this is great like this is a thing that really works their friendship we're really going to be able to sell it and we're like uh duh duh no kidding what do you mean i mean they really did base the entire show at the end of the day on the fact that leslie and ann were you know each other's number one yeah yeah [27:28] Not hard to do. No. [27:33] This episode is brought to you by K18. So you've tried a million different hair masks only to watch your results literally wash down the drain? Well, you should know that K18 molecular repair hair mask actually reverses damage. Thanks to the patented K18 peptide, you'll get strong, soft, bouncy hair in just four minutes. Color, bleach, heat, however your hair's been damaged, this totally transforms it from the inside out. Shop at Sephora or get 10% off your first purchase [28:03] 2018Hair.com with the code Amy. [28:07] This episode is brought to you by Visible. How many of you are currently listening to this podcast on your phone? If you are chronically online, like we all are these days, your wireless network should be too. With Visible, you get unlimited 5G data and unlimited hotspot, all powered by Verizon's 5G network. The perks of big wireless for half the cost. Visible isn't just a wireless plan, it's unlimited wireless designed to always keep you connected and no contract holding you back.

[28:37] Switch today at visible.com. Plans start at $25 a month or get our premium visible plus pro plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code hang, an exclusive offer for podcast listeners. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. [28:56] This episode is brought to you by Burlington. Here's a question for you. When was the last time you stopped by a Burlington? Oh, they just do coats? That's what you're going with? Well, they got way more going on. Sure, you can pick up a coat, but you're probably going to leave with a dress, sneakers, brand name beauty, something for your dog, and a candle you didn't know you needed. At Burlington's prices, you can just get it all. You don't need to sacrifice style for savings. [29:26] should pop by it's better than you remember find a store near you at burlington.com so you're saying with hilton honors i can use points for a three night stay anywhere anywhere what about fancy places like the canopy in paris yeah hilton honors baby or relaxing sanctuaries like the conrad and tulum hilton honors baby what about the five-star waldorf astoria in the maldives are you gonna do this for all 9 000 properties [29:54] When you want points that can take you anywhere, anytime, it matters where you stay. Hilton for the stay. [30:02] I mean, we've talked about this before, but when we first started the show, I think it was like

[30:09] It was kind of like we were trying to figure out who was going to play what part. [30:14] and who is going to come on board. And, um, [30:19] And kind of like the beginnings of that show were... [30:24] I would say a little clumpy. Crunchy. Crunchy. Can we talk about it? Yeah, I'd love to. Oh my god. Yeah, it was crunchy. Because I think for, I don't think a lot of people know this, for the beginning, I think we both were... [30:37] Worried that we had taken each other's part. Like, yes. Yeah. So I had been on hold for this untitled podcast. [30:47] thing that was going to, that Greg and Mike were going to write. Right. And I had done a year on the office and I [30:54] They let me go, which made sense. It made sense. You had such a tough job there because everybody wanted Jim and Pam. And then guess who shows up? A very likable, cool, and everyone was like, oh, no, wait. I love Karen. It did not feel that way. People did not like me. Like fans were not about it. But they had to create tension for the relationship to be earned later. So I was the third point in the triangle. It's fine. I, like, accept it. But anyway, so Mike was like, we're working on this other show. [31:24] We don't know what it is yet. Remember, people thought it was like a spinoff of The Office for a second. But anyway, so they kept like kind of decide, like changing the main characters of the show. When they pitch it to me, the boss was a guy. And they didn't know if they were going to cast me or not. But I remember you were extremely pregnant. Yeah. We'd just gotten back from Italy.

[31:46] you and I were in Italy yeah that's right we were in Italy and it was very hot that's right and a day later you were like let's go to lunch I need to talk to you about do you remember where we went pasties yes I do New York City I do oh god and I said let's talk about something yeah and you say no no you and I was like I want you to raise this baby with me it's yours this baby is I know that's impossible and you need to accept it um but you no I actually [32:16] is like a gold standard of friendship and being able to take care of [32:21] your oneself and the person that you love at the same time. I really do, Polos, because what you did and how you did it was very hard because you took me to lunch and said, I'm so sorry, but they offered me the part. Both of us thinking it was the same part I was on hold for, being created by a friend of ours. And so I immediately started crying in pasties. And you held my hand, and you were so warm, and you were so – there was something about it where you were like – [32:48] I know. I'm sorry, buddy. But you also you didn't like do the thing that I sometimes do where I'm codependent, where I'm like, I know I suck. I'm the worst person. I don't even deserve it. Like whatever I would say to try to make the other person feel better, which doesn't work. You didn't do that. You like held your space and you also comforted me at the same time, which was like a very beautiful thing. I wonder what. [33:10] sure's version of this is let me tell you okay i left him a message almost immediately because i'm not shy i was and i was like oh i'm such an idiot for thinking i could even be on the show like anybody wants me on this show of course i didn't get this like amy's like a you know oh my god what a mean part of yourself very mean very mean that's a that's a person we're trying to um to not invite to the dinner party anymore but um so i called him i was like hey would love to talk to you he

[33:40] I was like, you want to tell me what's going on? Because it would have been really nice for you to tell me and not Amy to tell me that I wasn't getting this job. And he's like, no, no, no, back up. We changed the boss. It's a woman. And Amy's playing the boss. I was like, you, oh, my God. Like, we might be working together? Yeah. It kind of went from, oh, no, to, oh, my God, we might be the two women on the show. Yes. [34:05] And I still wasn't cast because I still had to do a bunch of chemistry reads after that. [34:10] became, you know, this huge... [34:13] possibility of like my life being, [34:17] The best. From the worst to the best. God, I'm sweating even thinking about that. He wasn't. They just hadn't decided things. Yeah. And they were trying to build around you, I think is what happened, around that character. So I think they had just done that. And I think you wanted to tell me as soon as possible. Yeah. Because we were so close. Yeah. Which was the right instinct. And Mike decided to get on a plane, which was his instinct. And he just flew for hours. He wasn't even going anywhere. He just got on a plane. [34:47] That's what execs do. That's what a powerful person does is they get on the plane. They just get on as many planes as possible. My phone was off. But I have to say, you are very good, and you've taught me a lot about – [34:58] Handling feedback. [35:00] Because like you, you know, even recently, like you reached out to friends about giving, give me some feedback on something. Yeah. And. [35:10] I thought about, wow, I mean, I'm always trying to process

[35:14] taking like, like we talked about, like just figuring out who I can get feedback from. And I love your feedback. I trust it. I respect it. The way you give it is very caring and loving, but feedback from the wrong person. Oh yeah. Not great. [35:29] Nightmare. Nightmare. Well, how do you handle that? I will say, you know, it's I part of me was doing it because my little inner critic, that person that was at the table is so loud and mean and unreasonable. And so I look to people who love me and can tell me that. [35:46] That's not always... [35:48] the person I should be listening to. So weirdly, my friends sometimes are like a stand in for my highest self when I can't do it for myself. So that's I was sort of looking for that. And it's funny because I was looking for feedback about the things that kind of bring me joy and the parts of my work that my friends see in. [36:06] light me up. The point is, I was very targeted about it. I asked people that I love and respect. And that's, that is the thing to do, I think. [36:15] I also think that if you are going to get feedback from people, because a lot of us get unsolicited feedback. Yeah. Yeah. [36:21] Bill Hader once said to me, it was when I first started writing and he was talking about notes because I did not understand that process. I didn't really start writing. So I was like in my 30s. And he said, you know, you should take. [36:32] The note and not the solution. And that's what I feel like with feedback and people's like aggregate the kind of like common threads and they can be like, OK, I'm getting a kind of similar thing in this area where people seem to think I'm this thing. What does that actually mean? And where's that? Where's that coming from for me? And is that something I feel like I can.

[36:53] fix or investigate as opposed to being like that person has a problem with me. And then also, as we know, everybody's just thinking about themselves all the time. Yeah. [37:01] A hundred percent. And what do you do when you're, cause you're writing all the time, producing, directing, when you get a note that you deeply disagree with, how do you handle it in real time? Do you push back? Do you say, let me think about it? Do you, I most likely go, that's a really good point. I'll address that. And then most of the time, if you don't, [37:20] If you make the rest of the thing good, it doesn't matter. It's so true. It's the advice I always try to give people that are starting out, which is don't fight every battle in real time because – [37:33] Because execs want to feel creative and they want to feel like they're part of it. And if you, they get embarrassed. Yes. If you're like, what a dumb ass note. Yeah. Why would you say it's just such a stupid thing? And also it's a waste of energy because it's such a long process. And if you're like using all of your, you know, currency to fight back with everything, you're going to be exhausted. You're not going to be able to be creative. Yeah. You go, yeah, good, great idea. Let's, we're going to figure out how to solve that, you know? But then you don't do it.

[38:03] asking for isn't, is, you know, completely contradictory to the other thing they're asking for. That happens a lot. So you can't do both. Again, it's like if you, if somebody's having a problem with an area of the script or like a theme of the script or a character, you know, something's wrong, but they're never going to know how to fix it. You have to do that. [38:21] When I gave you some feedback recently, one of the things that I said that you love to do is dance. I'm just going to bring that up. I want to talk about dancing. Okay. The importance of dancing in your life. [38:32] And our lives. And our lives. And I want to tell you something fun about this show. So we do this thing, like a little secret, like talking behind people's backs, but in a good way, which is before I interview you, I do a little Zoom with people and ask them what I should ask you. So I, before you came today, I Zoomed Retta and Darcy and was like, you guys, I'm talking to Rashida. What should we ask her? [38:59] And we all started talking about dancing. [39:02] Because we were talking about how we love doing it with you, how we've done it so much with you, how we've had the joy of like doing with you over and over again at birthdays. And it was so fun to talk about because it's like what a lot of people associate with you. That's nice. The feeling of dancing and the feeling of like what it feels like to dance. [39:19] be good at dancing. Thank you. So what's your relationship to it? What does it do for you? Well, [39:27] I will say when we first met, I felt like we got right into dancing right away. Like we'd go out in New York and we would dance. Like it was almost like that was the way we got to know each other. Like we sat and talked, but also we just went and danced.

[39:42] And again, there's something... [39:44] There's something that feels so instinctive, nonverbal, like... [39:51] Just being in your body, I think, as somebody who, like, probably is in my brain too much. It's such a relief to dance. It's such a relief to dance. Yeah. [40:02] I don't even know how to describe it. I just want to be dancing all the time. And you know that. Just want to be dancing all the time. I think I'm a little... [40:09] I think that I... [40:10] my [40:11] especially in social, you know, like at social events, I get a little anxious and I need to express it somehow. Yes. And the chatting and talking, like you said, the small talk makes me feel crazy. Yes. Yes. I would. And there's nothing worse for me than being in a small talk conversation and seeing the dance floor and hearing a song and being like, I can't believe I'm not there right now. And some I have very rudely been like, excuse me, and just run to the dance floor because I [40:41] Thank you. [40:42] Darcy and Retta and you have all been to my birthday party. So I used to have an annual birthday party that was a pajama jammy jam. And there were very strict rules. They were... [40:52] Come in your pajamas. You will not be let in without your pajamas. I only serve cereal and pizza and candy. And this is not a party for socializing. [41:02] There will be no talking at a corner. You're there to dance and dance only. You have to dance. [41:08] And people stuck to the rules and the people like the diehard people who want to be there to dance. You could tell like there is like a there's certain people who are like that. And there's some people that are not. I remember in those early years to people saying, I don't really like to dance. Should I come? And I'd say no. No. Yeah, don't come. It's fine. We'll hang out some other time in a different way. But that's not this. Have a cup of coffee outside of a deli sometime. Yes. Not this. Not this. And it is like it is a marathon like we get there.

[41:38] We are on the dance floor. DJ Tendaji is fantastic. [41:41] messing it up yeah like every era just crushing it and we're just there for six and a half hours with a couple of water breaks like we just don't even talk to each other no but um retta was so funny she was like retta was saying like the thing i love the most is when white when you find out a white guy can really dance and she said max greenfield yeah max greenfield really brought it also ben schwartz great dancer people should know that john ralphian dancer and also like [42:11] like a deep, deep historical way. Also, like there's, it's great because it's such an equalizer to wear pajamas. It's not like... [42:18] And I and I, you know, if you want to wear like a sexy pajama, OK, but that's not really the point. The point is to be comfortable and be kind of uniform in the sense that you can really focus on the dancing. I sound like extremely strict about this and it's not it's actually fun. And the way we're talking about it makes it sound like it's not fun. You're talking to a person that I think rules are what make things fun. [42:41] I hear somebody laughing in this room. I don't know why that's funny. [42:47] Rules are boundaries, right? Yes. Everything has like... [42:52] you know, you can't just be like, come whenever and anybody can come or whatever. It's like, that's a nightmare. Yeah. If someone's like, [42:58] From 7 to 11, or we're going here, or like that, I feel seen, taken care of. Yes. Somebody said, I'm going to do this thing. Yes. [43:06] It's going to go like this. Then you can have your feelings about it. But this is what I like. It makes me feel like people are taking care of very very swim lesson. Yes. Yes. OK. Yes. Swim lesson. I just remembered my high school friends also all up in the all of your high school friends. And I know all of your high school friends because of those jammy jams and your college friends. Yes. And they're amazing. Thank you. Thanks. And they're so fun. But.

[43:28] Talk to us about swim lesson for a second because, uh, [43:32] Yes. Tell us what swim lesson is. Well, to your point, it's a it's a movie about a swim teacher, Bill Marsh, who has taught over 5000 kids. [43:40] from like ages two to five. And he has a very particular way of teaching. But but part of that is the sort of boundary, his boundaries that he sets with these kids. So he's like, you can have all the feelings you want, but you have to stay in the pool. It's an eight day intensive program. [43:58] And the hope and actually the outcome most of the time. [44:02] very, very, very most of the time is that the kids have these breakthroughs and they go from crying and screaming and vomiting and running out of the pool to really enjoying being underwater and actually swimming a little bit. And it is this sort of parable for what it is to be alive. It's the first of many, many, many times that you will face something that you don't understand, that you're scared of, that you don't know how to do, and you make some progress and you feel [44:32] And the learning something new that makes you feel, that gives you self-esteem. And you and Will McCormick directed it, produced it. It's a short documentary. Beautiful short doc. It's winning a ton of awards. Yeah. And it's, yeah, where can we see it? You can see it on YouTube on the LA Times. [44:49] channel on YouTube. Highly recommend it. It's so incredible. We got to screen it. I got to see it when you screened it at Pixar, which was very special. So awesome. And I don't think a lot of

[45:00] tenure at Pixar, like you, I mean, that of the men, like, you know, it's almost impossible, Bones, to get a full- [45:09] You know, I just have to do little snapshots of your wide and illustrious career because you have done so many things. You do so many things so well. And because you're a curious person. [45:21] who likes to challenge themselves. You also are just doing new things all the time. And on top of the million places that people have seen you act and the things they've seen you write and direct, I don't think people also know that you had a stint at Pixar where you were writing. Um, [45:37] And you just have this... [45:39] way in which you [45:43] you kind of are of the world. You really want to experience a lot of things. Thank you for saying that because for me, [45:50] It's like a, I don't want it to be a problem, but it's like I see myself as a generalist, almost, you know, like where I don't, I sort of do like a little dot, like a tiny little dive into all these areas. But like. [46:03] a lot of people [46:04] by the time they're 50, have done a deep dive into one area. And I feel grateful that I haven't totally done that. But then in some regards, I'm like, hmm, had I spent all of those hours doing one thing, would I be like that kind of, you know, would I be like, you know, virtuosic in one area? [46:22] place. I think also, I mean, the truth is, you know, my... [46:27] beloved father who passed away a couple months ago.

[46:31] He the bar of what he accomplished in this world is so high. It's unfairly high for anybody. And thank God for him because he really did like change culture. And so if I were being honest, like, you know, he was a great dad and he loved me and he was so encouraging and he was so proud of me. But at the end of the day, like I'm looking at this person. [46:55] who's accomplished things that are like unimaginable. And I can't not. [47:01] let that enter my orbit. So yeah, my standards are stupidly high and unfairly high to myself. So that's like also something I'm thinking about as I approach 50. I'm like, okay, how do I let go [47:15] That was his life. I'm so glad he let it. And that's not my life anymore. [47:20] And what is my life? And also, what do I find kind of like joy and connection? And what do I feel good at doing in my life that has nothing to do with that? And also, like, I do feel like this, there's this like hat trick where like the the oppression of like only being one thing and being like domestic, you know, domestic and whatever, knocking out the house. We've done the opposite, which is like the pressure, the oppression of like having to do everything and then pretend like it's all easy and we're all fine with it. [47:50] Yeah, that's it's it's impossible. It's an impossible standard. And I like one of the reasons why I want to do this podcast is as I've watched so many men do the bare minimum.

[48:02] Is this is this your bare minimum? I'm truly giving 25 percent. [48:06] which is for most people is 75%. But it's like enough is enough. Enough with the 100%. Sure. And enough with improving ourselves and listening to stuff about how we're supposed to get better and better and better. But it will make the rest of our life very interesting. Well, yeah. I mean, we're all going to live on a farm together and, you know, like, right? We're all going to live on a farm together. 100%. So Darcy and Radha had two questions for you. Okay. They're kind of the same question. And then I'm going to finish with the question that we're asking everybody on Good Hang. [48:36] for you, which is kind of a cute question because it kind of came off of us hanging out and talking about how [48:42] Maretta described you as like, you know, like Rashida can be the lawyer of the group, which I love. So true. Which is like, wait, hold on. But it got us talking about. [48:55] Little Rashida. What did little Rashida want to be when she grew up? [49:01] What was her, what did, what did she want her job to be? [49:05] Well, Retta is partially right. I want to be a lawyer. Really? Mm-hmm. I want to be a lawyer or a judge. [49:12] Or the president. [49:16] No, thanks. No, thanks to that one. But yeah, I wanted to be a lawyer or a judge. Did you know anyone that was a lawyer or a judge? My grandfather was a lawyer. [49:25] And my uncle is a judge. No way. My uncle Richard is a judge. And you saw him... [49:31] Did you ever see him in action? Like see him bang a gavel and like judge?

[49:35] No, but he his brain is just that he's got that brain. He's just like he's like, see, he's parsing all the details and he's putting the facts together and he's like assessing. I love that. Do you think you would like you make a good jury member? Do you think you're able to be? [49:50] I don't. Me neither. I don't think so. I don't think so. I think it would be – I'm too emotional for that. Same. Judge is different because I think you're – like you are considering emotion that's in there. I mean obviously you're considering facts, but I think I like the idea of being the adjudicator of right and wrong. Yeah. [50:09] Which is something I'm like trying to let go of as I get older because there's so much gray and like it's so boring to think that you know morally what's the right thing for anybody, you know. But I think I liked it like as a kid, you know, like you're always trying to suss out like where your boundaries are and like what's good and what's bad. And I think I liked the idea of like really – [50:31] Thank you. [50:32] enforcing that. You know, we did a fun, um, jokey thing on Parks and Rec where we took a picture one day on some [50:42] like courthouse steps, me, you, Catherine Han, Adam Scott, Paul Rudd. And we look like we were in a 90s. [50:49] drama called Philly Justice, what we called ourselves. And then because... [50:54] It was whatever, season seven of Parks, and we were probably phoning it in at that point, but we ended up... [51:01] pretending that we used to be in that show. We did a whole text chain. The writers took time off writing the show and wrote an entire episode of Philly Justice. That's right. The writers wrote an episode that we filmed. Yes.

[51:13] That I have a copy of that I keep wanting to put on like TikTok or something. I want to see it. Oh, it's so good. Morgan Sackett, our producer, sent me the full thing. And you play Angie Martinez. Yeah. And she's a lawyer. Yeah. Right? She's a lawyer. She's a young. Or like a, she's like a young second year law student or something. Yeah. And there's a bunch of scenes where you object to things and you throw things down. Not in a courtroom. Yeah. You're not in a courtroom. [51:43] I think you and Han have like a... [51:46] No, I think you're in love. Oh, we are? I think you guys, maybe you yell at each other and then you kiss at some point. I forget. Oh, my gosh. I've got to get that out there on the Internet so people can see it. That was really fun. But it's so fun. And there is a side of you that 100% I could see going in and – [52:02] And putting a briefcase down. Yeah, I'm not going to law school. But yeah, I think some part of me thinks I'm a judge. Isn't that just a testament to how much downtime you have on the set? That we create an entirely new show. Yeah. We had time for a whole other show that no one ever saw. Okay, and then the last question. Good, Hank. So we're trying to figure out how to like... [52:24] Continually. [52:25] self-regulate here and find joy in all different places. And like, I'm asking everybody to talk about what gives them relief. What is the thing they go to? And they want to like laugh, check out, tune in, [52:41] take a load off. It's small or big, but I feel like we learn a lot about somebody by what they laugh at. What's yours?

[52:51] Well, [52:52] And contrary to what we just talked about, which is I love good music and I love, you know, I love the emotionality of listening to great music. [53:03] Nothing makes me laugh harder than... [53:06] really confident, really bad singing. Like sincerely... [53:12] confident, bad singing. People that know that they're doing it. Okay. I'm not laughing at them. I just like the, the, the, the gusto in which people like, I would watch the first couple seasons of American Idol with friends, like appointment television, sit down, not like when it got to the good people, but like those first five episodes where people were just coming in hard with like no musicality whatsoever. And they were super cocky, super cocky. [53:42] Thank you. [53:42] It was like what she did was actually musically amazing because she was tone deaf. She went to like six different keys in like 20 seconds, like just kind of brilliant, but didn't know. And nailed it and walked out being like, I got it. Nailed it. She said she was like Mariah Carey. That's what she said. That's so interesting you say that because there must be some like psychological part of you that likes the way people are approaching music as something that you revere so badly. Like it must be a huge release. It is. [54:12] It is. And to that point, I remember there's David Wayne and I once, I pitched this bit to him. It did not go well when we did it at a comedy at Sketch Fest. Is that what it's called? Yeah. Where I was like, let's do California...

[54:25] California Dreaming. I'm like, but let's do it like super genuine, sincere, come in with the guitar, start singing, and then I'm going to come in with the harmonies and they're going to be totally wrong. It was funny in concept, but it was a release. It was like a feeling like, oh, I don't have to sound good. I could just... [54:44] Go for it. Have you ever seen that Domingo sketch on SNL? [54:48] Totally. That's kind of like when they come in so off. [54:53] Yes. How do they do that? I wonder if somebody coached them how to sing badly because there's good singers singing badly. I know. It's satisfying to watch Ariana Grande not get the note. [55:06] But it's not like – sometimes when really good singers sing badly, they're like – and you can tell they're good singers. They're actually doing a good job convincing people they're bad. When you do karaoke or see people sing karaoke, do you like it when they're off? That's a little bit more painful because it's in person. Okay. You know? [55:26] Just to get... [55:28] get it down to the nitty gritty. It's like being with friends, watching on TV, someone that comes in and is like, [55:35] Buckle up. [55:37] And then they just start singing Roar by Katy Perry, and they get it way wrong. And then they leave being like, [55:45] Nailed it. Yeah. Stuff on that. People who are so confident were like, if you laughed, they wouldn't crumble. Like, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. That makes me want to watch old American Idol. I'm going to send you some. Because I found them again. I found, like, the girl that knocked my socks off. Wait, let me just look at her before we go. Because we can do this now. I have a laptop. It's deep in, like, a super cut of, like... Do you remember her name? I don't, but it's, like... Do you remember what she sang? I don't.

[56:14] Yeah, she sang Phil Collins' Take a Look Against All Odds. And she came in and she was like, people say I look just like Mary Carey and I sound just like her too. Is this her? No, that's not her. Oh. [56:25] You sure? Oh, my God, it's her. OK, OK. Oh, my God. Sorry. We got to listen to this before we go. [56:30] Oh, yeah. She said she looks like Mariah Carey. She doesn't not look like Mariah Carey. She's cute. [56:35] She's cute. [56:37] You've got to turn it way up. You would not think that this is going to go badly. That's what I mean. She's cute. She's wearing a shawl. She's wearing a shawl. She has really cute hair. [56:46] She's like... [56:47] She definitely, like, she wears cute jeans. She's a little too close to the judges, which is already making me nervous. Like, she's standing too close to the table, which she doesn't have a good, like, [56:58] Here she goes. You ready? Here she goes. Okay, hold on. Stand by. [57:00] The end she goes off watch. [57:11] Jane! [57:16] A-E-N [57:20] They've a look at me now. [57:23] Amen. [57:23] Amen. [57:24] like that's like acrobatic that's hard to do like i could i've tried to imitate that it's hard to do [57:36] That is very, very good. You're right. Yeah. That's very, very satisfying to watch because you're right. She's kind of good. She just not, she's,

[57:47] she's not hitting any notes no she's not hitting any keys and within that she's hitting all the keys which is amazing like it's really hard she's also doing something that i like when singers do she's holding her throat as if that like she's like i'll get it she's so nervous i mean she's so nervous you can tell but she's like she's like this is not going well she knows she starts to figure it out wow that is really satisfying i'm gonna hold on i'm gonna send that to myself so i [58:17] Take a look at me now. Now. [58:22] Because you're just an empty space. And you're coming back. Take a look at me now. And then one person goes, ah! She gives a little shout, too. [58:33] Um, she didn't seem to be, um, feeling like it was going badly though. So really, I think she, I think she was like, Oh, maybe too late, but she was like, Oh, cause she was, I think this was like, please stop. Please stop. How funny would it have been at the very end? She ended and went, Oh, that would have been so funny. And she said, Oh, at the end. All right. Love you bones. Thanks for doing this. [59:03] Thank you. [59:04] All right. Thank you so much, Rashida Jones. You are the best. I love you. Thank you for doing this for me. I don't think you had much of a choice, but thank you for doing it anyway, and I will do anything for you. We talked a lot about music, and it makes me think that before this episode is over, I feel like I need to just ask.

[59:22] Chapel Rhone if she'll come on again chapel. [59:25] Chapel, are you there? Are you listening? [59:29] Uh... [59:30] We've been reaching out to your team and I'm assuming that no answer means a maybe. And I'm excited about, [59:37] having you on. I just think you're the best. [59:40] I just love your music and everything that you're doing for the music industry. [59:45] I kind of started this podcast to talk to you. And when you come on, I'm going to end it. [59:50] So I haven't told Spotify that yet, but you will be my last guest. So Chapel, come on soon because I'm tired and I'd love to wrap it up. So thank you, everybody, for listening. Thanks for hanging. And we'll catch you next time. [1:00:06] You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Berman and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paper Kite. [1:00:20] For Paper Kite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Original music by Amy Miles.