Defying Expectations: Ernie Hudson’s Advice on Dreams and Challenges

[00:01] You're listening to Mick Unplugged, hosted by the one and only Mick Hunt. This is where purpose meets power and stories spark transformation. Mick takes you beyond the motivation and into meaning. [00:13] helping you discover your because and becoming unstoppable. I'm Rudy Rush, and trust me, you're in the right place. Let's get unplugged. [00:27] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Mick Unplugged. And today we're talking to an icon, the man that I actually wanted to be when I grew up. And we're talking about from Ghostbusters to The Crow, from Oz to the family business. He is a Hollywood legend. [00:44] He is a legend of men. He is a legend of the culture. And he has spent five decades commanding the screen with grit, [00:50] Grace and Purpose. [00:52] He's more than an actor. [00:53] He's a storyteller, a mentor, a writer. [00:55] and a survivor in an industry. [00:57] that rarely makes room for either. [00:59] Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and pleasure to introduce the living icon. [01:05] Mr. Ernie Hudson. Mr. Hudson, how are you doing today, sir? I'm very good. Thank you for that introduction. I think that is the absolute warmest, nicest introduction I think I've ever had. So thank you so much. [01:15] I'm not going to take that. I want to, but I know you've had some. I know you've had some. But Ernie, man, I was telling you offline... [01:25] you know, 15, 20 years ago, when I was trying to say if I could be like someone, because, you know,

[01:32] This is no secret to those that know me. My dad in my household wasn't the symbol of manhood that I should look to. [01:40] Right. And so I used to find that I used to seek that. And I would take pieces of people and say, this is who I'm going to be or this is how I want to model my life. And then I got to know not just Ernie Hudson, the actor, but the man, the father, the husband, the things you were doing in community, the way you were impacting people. And I said, that is it. From a manhood perspective, I want to be Ernie Hudson. So I just wanted to thank you for being that role model that you did not even know that you were, brother. [02:10] life in general, you know, we impact lives, we touch people, we have no idea, but it makes a difference. [02:17] And, you know, my grandmother who raised me said that Jesus was the light of the world, but we're all lights and we all have a responsibility to, you know, show what is possible because you don't know who's watching. Well, again, I appreciate you, brother, so much, so much. And Mr. Husson, I love to start my show by asking my guests about their because, right? Like not your why, but that thing that's deeper than your why. Like I call it your true purpose. [02:47] But then when I say, but why... [02:50] They usually say, well, because blah, blah, blah. I care about the because. So if I were to say... [02:57] Ernie Hudson, today, what's your because? Well, that's just kind of interesting. I think because, the simplest way is because...

[03:05] I can because I'm still able to, because for reasons some of my own, some of just God-given, I'm blessed to be able to do. [03:15] what I do at a level that I [03:18] You know, I don't say I'm proud of, but I enjoy. But the real, I suppose, because is, you know, having family, having children. I talked about being an example, but just the possibilities. Because in our community, African American community, we hear all the stories of what is expected. We want to, you know, be an example of what's possible. You know, I'll turn 80 in less than a week. [03:41] Yes, sir. On the 17th. And I never, well, I shouldn't say I never expected, but [03:47] That's a big number even in my mind. But to be blessed to... [03:53] to work and move around the way I am. You know, I see friends. And so if God has given me this ability, [04:00] I want to honor that and certainly... [04:03] you know, do the best that I can do with the gifts that God has given me. You totally are doing that and then some. So again, you are living your because, and I see it every day. And, you know, you talk about turning 80 soon, and I know you hear this all the time. Ernie Hudson doesn't look 80, doesn't move 80. Like, I don't want to know what the secret is. What I want to know is can I be adopted, get the last name Hudson, so that maybe through osmosis that rubs off on me? Because I've seen the genetics. [04:33] I've seen clearly, man. Like, I'm trying to be a Hudson. How about that?

[04:37] You know, I've been very, I have four sons and they're all amazing, totally different in their own ways. Yeah, I feel very, very, I was a single dad to the first two and now my wife and I, we've been together for close to 50 years, but yeah, I'm just so proud of all that. [04:53] with the kids and none of them are quite living the lives that I expected. Then I had to let go and just go, you know what, it's, [05:01] do your thing and I'm, I'm here for you. And, um, [05:05] Yeah. As I get older, parenting, looking at your children and realizing that it's their own journey and you have to support that. [05:35] that you wanted to travel? You know, I think it was in 66, right? [05:40] I had been trying jobs. I got married in 64, you know, right out of high school. My wife was... [05:49] just turned 16. So it was a small town. This is what people did. My ex-wife, who eventually earned a PhD, was really brilliant. She sort of introduced me to books and just started thinking out of the box. I went to the military. That didn't work out. Came back. And so I was trying all kinds of jobs. My grandmother who raised me said, I want you to be something. So trying different jobs. I finally found a job with the Michigan Bell Telephone Company.

[06:18] as a communications consultant, where I got to wear a tie and I had a little secretary. And I hated it. [06:25] So I just felt a little frustrated because I've been trying so hard to find something. And we had moved to Detroit and I had an argument with my... [06:34] then wife, and I just had to get out of the house. I remember driving around, and I saw a line of people lined up to go into this building. It wasn't a movie theater, but out of curiosity, I just sort of stopped and asked what was going on. And they said it was a play. I'd never seen a professional play. [06:54] And I went in, took a seat, and it was a play called Papa's Daughter. And it was about a father whose daughter got pregnant and he disowned her. And then in the end, they come back together. And when it was over, I was... [07:08] I was so moved. I was in tears. [07:11] And I thought, oh my God. [07:13] That is like, you know, if I could do something like that, but that's too big a prayer. I can't even ask God for that. And that coming semester, I needed an elective and I took a theater and acting class. And literally when I walked in the theater and walked on stage, it's like I knew this. I was home. [07:34] You know, I'd never been home before. I'll throw them all my life. You know, you're looking for this, you're looking for that. I felt. [07:41] Thank you. [07:42] I'm home. This is it. [07:43] And that's when you ask God that prayer, if you bless me to do this, I will honor it. I will show up on time. I will do my best. And from that time on, except for maybe a couple of things, I've never had to

[07:57] earn a living outside of. [08:00] my profession. I was with a group of actors, Joy Mantegna, Tim Daly, Joe Pagliano. We were all sitting around and they were talking about various jobs they had to work in between. And I've been blessed, even raising a family, to be able to earn a living acting and [08:17] going to business. [08:19] And then let's talk about from theater and plays to the big screen. [08:24] And for those that are listening, those that are watching... [08:28] That's not easy either. [08:30] You may want to do the Hollywood route, but being selected, breaking into Hollywood, especially at the time. [08:38] It's not easy now, but you could argue it's a little bit easier now than it was in the late 60s, early 70s when you broke in like. [08:46] Talk to us about that transition from theater to Hollywood. Well, I mean, just the numbers. Now you turn on TV and it's, it's, [08:54] Not at all an unusual scene. Multiple, a lot of shows having black, [08:59] even Black Leeds. That was unheard of. I mean, it might be Sidney Poitier, but there will only be one Sidney Poitier until Denzel comes along. But so they have to reject the roles. They have to reject them for anybody else to get them, you know? So yeah, that was, and it was very clear. And then Roots came out. I remember Roots came out and we thought it would open up and it went the other way. It shut things down. I mean, it's, so it was a deliberate attempt to not include us,

[09:29] first 10 years from 66 until maybe 73, I think. [09:35] I was on stage. I did plays. I think that's where the confidence, where you just, you know, where you love the craft. I tell people as a kind of a joke that, you know, the theater is wonderful. [09:47] where I found love. And movies and TV is like sex. You know, it's great if you can get it, but, you know, don't think this is love because, you know, they'll move on very quickly. But in the theater, you know, you rehearse for four weeks and you get to know the people and they're like your family and you support each other. And it was very, very... [10:06] supportive. When I came out to Hollywood was kind of my marriage ended and I really wanted to go to New York, but my ex-wife who was then working on her PhD did not want to take the kids. [10:18] which was a shock to me because I never heard anybody not, how do you not take the kids? But she was serious. And so me and the kids came to Hollywood and I came to Hollywood because I have a brother. [10:30] who was there. And I knew that no matter what happened, he would always be sort of a backup. And I got a little one bedroom apartment and I heard a number one in 10. So in my mind, if I can get one in 10 interviews, I'm going to be okay. So there was a lot of rejection, but I never got the one in 10. It was always, I never, you know, it was always, and I think it's just a lot of, I talked to a lot of men about taking the responsibility. I was [10:57] A little thrown off when I had to take the responsibility of my kids because I thought it would hold me back. But the truth is, it's the thing that really gave me a certain determination. I'd go into a meeting and they would say, no, thank you. And I would go, no, hold up.

[11:13] We're going to do this again. [11:15] Because I need this job. I need to set an example for my son's. [11:21] was possible. I didn't want to say to them, oh, this is America, you can do whatever. And yet, I can't live my dream. [11:28] So I was just determined. I think maybe the biggest thing, and I talk a lot about this, when I didn't have a dad, never knew my father or never met him. And... [11:40] My grandmother would say that God is my father. And as a little kid, I kind of embraced that because... [11:48] I was always embarrassed by that. My brother, I have a half-brother. He knew his father. His father wasn't around, but at least he knew who he was. And so Hudson is my brother's name. My grandmother wanted to keep the same names. And Hudson. [12:03] She would say that [12:05] That source that is our creator is aware of us and will aid us and it speaks to us and it will guide us. And that's our birthright. It's not like you have to go and join somebody's whatever. And so all my life, especially when it came to acting, I realized that I didn't have the money or the connection, but that source would guide me. And it would open doors when I couldn't even imagine. [12:35] or other, a way was made. And I knew that I, it wasn't me doing the making, you know? So it was my job to show up and be prepared and give my best, but...

[12:45] that was pretty much all I could do because I didn't, [12:48] You know, I didn't have friends who could manipulate things or knew anybody who, but I just had to, a story in the Bible about the brides who were waiting for the groom. And then several of them fell asleep and they weren't prepared, but the one who was ready. So my job was always to be ready for that, that opportunity. [13:07] And God is now on one hand, I think when I said that prayer about wanting to be an actor, maybe I should have thrown in there, you know, multi-millions. And you were not specific in that prayer, huh? Yeah, I should have been more specific. You know, I wanted to be a working actor and God has blessed me to do that. And I'm very thankful. But I've had friends who've come along and gone on to get a bigger name or whatever. But I look at... [13:34] man. [13:35] you know, my family and I've been blessed to travel the world and I have no regrets, but sometimes you got to go, well, there's no Oscar on my shelf there, you know, so, you know. [13:48] Yeah. [13:49] Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, and I'm just very, very, very blessed. But I know that it's because of, you know, a lot of people say, well, they believe in God and all that, and I'm not pushing any kind of religion. But I do believe there's a source. I see a lot of people say they do, but they seem to be very afraid of a lot of things. I'm like, if that's true, then I don't really have to worry about it. I just have to show up.

[14:17] I'm going to get a long answer. I apologize. I can run on sometimes. No, no, no. That's perfect. This is your time. And I'm never, I'm just honored that you're here with me. And hearing you say those things makes me reflect back to the roles that you play. I look at you and the roles that you play seem to carry like a moral weight to them, right? Your leaders or fathers, men of principle. Is that on purpose by the roles that you select? Like walk us through how you select the roles that you will say yes to. [14:47] - Well, to some extent it's on purpose. [14:51] I always say most actors don't know why they're not working and they don't know why they are working. Because nobody will tell you the truth in Hollywood. I should say nobody, but rarely will you get the truth. [15:01] I think you bring a certain spirit to what you do, even though the characters hopefully are different. And I believe the characters should serve the story. So I'm here to tell the story. And if you don't believe that I am what I'm supposed to be, then if you still focus on me and how I look and all that, then that's a problem. But I've been asked to do things that I kind of go, you know what, I don't want to do that. And other people have done those roles and did very well. And I have nothing bad to say about that. It's just it wasn't right. [15:30] for me. [15:32] to do. I think there's a reason things didn't unfold in certain ways because sometimes there's a weightedness. If it was a great story and the character was something, but unless there's a reason for me to be a certain way, and sometimes I've done things where they wanted me to be less than,

[15:50] to underplay so much that it made somebody else and I kind of had to fight those but [15:56] So, and then also a lot of the work is just the work that's offered. [16:00] You know, it's not like, you know, there's a pile of scripts on, there's never been a pile of scripts on my desk. [16:06] that I'm going to, what do I want to do next? You know, say whatever comes up, and then you have the choice to say yes or no. And like I said, there's a few times when I just, I did a television show called Highcliffe Manor. This was one of the first shows I got back in the 70s. And it was a character from South Africa who was a voodoo priest, and his name was Bambo. [16:36] teeth and earring and [16:38] In it, it was a comedy. Him and his guy, his partner, who we call Buana, [16:44] rode a canoe across the ocean to get to America. Some nonsense. [16:50] And, uh, [16:50] But I wanted, I needed a job and, you know, me and the kids and what it was due. And I went in and I auditioned and did, you know, and they laughed. But I always had the feeling of what kind of laughing at me, you know. And then I got the job and we were having some friends were over and Shirley Ralph was at this little gathering. And she was sort of looking through the script and she said, oh, my God. And everything stopped. [17:14] So I know you're not going to do this. Now, I hadn't really wanted to think about this. But then, you know, this character named Bambo and it's like Sambo and, you know, all these things that were there. And so we were in the middle of rehearsing. And I just, I just finally had to say, you know, I can't do this.

[17:32] Just went to the producers and said, I know there are a lot of people out there who would love to job. There's more money than I ever made in my life, but I can't. [17:41] Thank you very much. So I left. And two days later, [17:46] They called me and said, you know, we thought about what you said, and we'd like to fix this, and we really want you. And so they changed the name from Bambo to Smite. And he's a voodoo priest, so he understands that. But how about we make his a Ph.D.? [18:02] So it's a PhD. You don't need the earring or the gold teeth. And so they, [18:08] bet a lot to me. We don't have to say buona, you know, and I think it taught me, it was early on that, you know, a lot of things you can just go, no. [18:17] Sometimes they may [18:19] They may not agree, but at least, you know, you can make the changes because up until then, I'm from theater and you try to... [18:26] do what's written there, but [18:28] That's a different situation. I did a television show with Ted Knight called Too Close for Comfort. And there was a line where I come in. [18:36] And we're ex-convicts who come to repair this hole in the wall in the story. As I walk in, I see the hole and I go, holy mahalia. [18:45] and Orange Base. [18:47] no sense I don't even know what that means I'm like and uh I got the job and I said you know I I can't I can't do this uh I mean I don't even you know and the cast agreed Ted Knight and they all kind of came to my defense said yeah then why does he have to say that it makes no sense it just looks but the producer said no I want him to say it when he did the audition he said it and it was funny and I and I wanted I go but it's not funny I don't just doesn't make any sense he

[19:17] I'll just have to get somebody else. [19:19] So then I thought about the car payment and the rent. [19:25] First of all men is due, right? [19:27] Reality. So I said, oh, man, I don't think anybody ever saw it anyways. But yeah, but I think you do have to. [19:34] Go, you know, is this [19:36] Because you're going to live with it for a long time. Those shows we did in the 70s, they're still playing. [19:42] you know, on air and, you know, and you have to, you have to own up to it. But, but I try, I've tried to. [19:50] maintain the certain integrity in the work that I do. Absolutely. And, you know, my favorite show that's out now is Ernie Hudson and it's the family business. And again, I'm [20:00] you're, [20:01] As I'm becoming the patriarch of my family, right? Like, it's like I'm about to be that right there. [20:09] But how you, again, the character that you have, the power that you play in building a family empire and portraying, you know, just that for our culture. How important has that role been to you personally? [20:39] And it's the lead, which is usually I'm playing somebody else's something. And it's about this family, but it's a mob family.

[20:47] I didn't see it very clearly that's what it's about. But I know at the heart of it, it's about family. And it's about, you know, my children. In fact, this season, kids can be challenging. [21:01] But it was a chance for me to play that, to be that father, Valerie. [21:06] Pettiford who plays my wife, I love her so much because yeah, so [21:10] So that's what it's about. I'm amazed at the amount of respect and appreciation that the fans have really appreciated. [21:17] come to it because at first I wasn't sure. We started with very little money. [21:22] And then, you know, we made a little movie, and then BET sort of added some and made a first season, and then we kind of, and I think it's gotten a lot better. The actors have really grown up. [21:34] so much. And it's a great show. I'm bringing out a lot of friends, people that I know work on the show. There's a guy named Patrick Duffy, who plays the Southern Sheriff. The first... [21:47] movie, not the first movie I got, but the first movie I got when I moved to Hollywood was A Man from Atlantis. And I had a little partner. He was the big star. He was the star of the show. So that was [21:59] I don't know. [22:00] 50 years ago or something. It's great for me to have him on the show and to... [22:07] and kind of see that circle. But now I do a show called Boston Blue, where I'm the patriarch, but I'm a Baptist pastor.

[22:18] but it's also family. And family has been the most fascinating thing for me. And I love being able to kind of explore it in these different roles. Like I said, growing up without a dad and not knowing my mom. She died when I was three months old. But I had my grandmother. People don't tell you much about. So I had my brother. [22:37] I would see families, and I think the thing I wanted more than anything, I didn't think about a profession as much as I wanted to be a dad. [22:45] I wanted to have a chance to do for someone what nobody ever did to me. You know, nobody introduced me to sports. Nobody took the time to do sports. [22:54] So families, you know, and how we connect, how we, I have grandkids, great grandkids, and... [23:02] it's challenging because it's, [23:06] But I love the family business and being able to be that patriarch. Also, if I'm going to have to do this illegal thing, which we don't focus on a lot, [23:16] or as much, you know. But it's more about family, but at least be reasonable. You know, if I have to do something, you will know why I had to do it, not just me, because I'm the boss and... [23:29] whatever so [23:31] Anyway. [23:31] Definitely my favorite show. First season, I binge watched it in like a day and a half, like literally the whole first season. And I've been hooked. And it's literally one of, like I said, my favorite show that's out there now. So kudos to you for that. [23:45] You talked about Boston Blues. So before I get you out of here with my quick five, what else is Ernie Hudson working on?

[23:53] Well, between those two shows, and I'm up here and we shoot it, Boston Blue and Toronto. I never worked in Toronto. And at my age now, I'm like, you know, this is... [24:04] I'm not at home, so we're going to have to have a conversation as we move forward. We got picked up for a second season. But – [24:12] Yeah, it's, you know, so it's fun. But also Toy Story, and I'm doing a lot in it, Carl Wethers. [24:19] Yeah, I've known Carl for 40 years. But he originated the thing, the role in G.I. Joe or something, so... [24:30] When I took the role, I had no idea this was true. The fans informed me that it happened, which is fine. [24:36] but I'll be doing that. I think it comes out next year, the new toy story. And there's another project of being ghost buses that I can't talk about. [24:45] I'm like, really? We won't say anything about it. Yeah, so I, you know, I'm like, [24:50] So they call me, Ernie, you know you can't. Anyway, fans tell me everything I know about Ghostbusters. They know about things before I even hear of it. [25:00] But yeah, no, so I've been blessed to stay busy. And, you know, I did a, just did a kind of a layout for men's fitness. I did this thing called gym to fridge. [25:09] which has been, I guess, on YouTube. [25:12] So I'm trying to convince them that, you know, I'll be a great cover for men over a certain age and men in general. I was going to say men over 30. That's Ernie Hudson right there. You are the model. So hopefully I would love to. But I'm just I just stay busy, you know, and less to, you know, the phone still rings and.

[25:34] You know, I, you know. [25:35] People say, when will you retire? And I, in my business, thankfully, you don't have to retire. You retire when they stop calling you, I guess. But also, I think there's a point when I've worked with some fellow actors, some younger than me, but... [25:49] They struggle with lines and memorizing, and sometimes even physically, I was working with a friend who was on a walker, you know, just physically not capable. I think if the time comes when I'm no longer capable of bringing my best, I think that's one that I think I hope I'm aware enough to just step aside as opposed to someone telling me that, you know, I need to. [26:14] Yeah, absolutely. Well, again, honored to have you on. I'm going to get you out of here. Rapid fire five questions. Oh, yeah. [26:22] You ready? [26:23] Sure. [26:24] All right. What's the favorite, your favorite line that you've delivered on screen? What comes to mind right off the top of my head, if there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe anything you say. I don't know what that is, but that's what came to my mind. There you go. There you go. What's one movie you wish you would have starred in? [26:41] One movie. Maybe, you know, the Rocky stuff. [26:45] the Rocky movies. And I love what Carl did. I'm taking anything away, but I think I could have bought out. Yeah, I wish I could have started that. There you go. Good stuff. I think I know the answer to this, but I'm going to ask it anyway. What's one hidden talent that you have that most people don't know about? Hidden talent. I think I have a comedic talent that I, I've done some comedies, but I've never been able to,

[27:09] you know, just... [27:11] Take some material and have fun. That's exactly what I would have said. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, I think most people think I'm very serious. And I'm going, I don't know. I think maybe the voice. [27:21] Yeah. Anything he needs while he's very, and I'm, I'm, I always feel like I've never had a job. You know what I mean? Yeah. [27:27] I have not, but people do. I have raising kids. I know how to, to turn my voice and maybe expression to just make it when I'm on the set and people get a little too goofy friendly. I know how to make them back up. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Talking about fitness. How often are you in the gym now? [27:57] times a week, sometimes four, and then I'll do that for, [28:03] two and a half months, and then I don't do anything for six months. You know what I mean? If I get caught up with stuff. But when I say I don't do anything, I don't get in the gym. I've never been a gym rat. I've never been a bodybuilder. You know, whatever I am, it's God given. But I will now as I've gotten older, probably from my... [28:22] Definitely in my 70s. I'll stretch out, do a light stretching because you want to be flexible because of [28:28] One of the biggest dangers as you get older is falling down and breaking something. So I'll try to stretch. And there are five things I do. I do push-ups. I'll try to get to a—I don't try to do. I do about 100 push-ups, but with three sets. So maybe I'll do 40 at first and then whatever. But as long as it's over 100. Some kind of stomach crunches, you know, squat. I mean, crunches or sit-ups or leg raises, something that focuses on the abdominal muscle. Squats.

[28:55] That just gets the blood going in my legs and planks. [28:59] because for me, the fountain of [29:02] not the problem of use, but the look of you. [29:04] is in the mid-saccia. [29:06] No matter what's happening, if you can keep that midsection, so that's the area that I kind of focus on. If I lay flat on my back and I don't get the full extent of my ribcage, I know that I probably should. And also, I think as I get older, it hasn't been so much exercise as much as dieting and sometimes fasting. If I really feel if I get started to get out of stream, I'll just stop eating. So, you know, just being aware of what we're taking in. [29:36] You know, so just being aware of the common sense stuff that I said, the universe will guide you. [29:43] And we know, my grandmother said, don't worry about doing something brilliant. Don't worry about, you know, just don't do the stupid stuff. And we all know what the stupid stuff is, and we do it anyway. And there's a price to pay for it. So just use your common sense. [29:58] Absolutely. Last question, Mr. Hudson. Today, if you could describe your life in one word, what would that one word be? Blessed. Blessed. Blessed. Just the last thing I do before I go to bed is get on my knees and pray. And the first thing in the morning is just give thanks. And my prayer is just thank you. [30:16] Mm. [30:18] I just, yeah, just... [30:20] I was, they dedicated the street I grew up on. They changed the name to my name. I went back for the ceremony, had a lot of state representatives and city officials and all that. But there were hundreds of little kids who lived in the projects where I, who kind of came out.

[30:38] And I thought they all reminded me so much of me. And I realized that there was no, I wasn't an athlete that could, [30:46] jump higher than I was. I was just a kid, but I had a faith in something that allowed me to dream outside the box and not be limited by... [30:56] Because society tries to limit our dreams. And I know that there's. [31:01] greater things. And that's that belief in God. [31:05] And if some people, I know a lot of people have trouble with the word God. I don't think it matters. You know, the universe or God. [31:11] whatever. But whatever that got us here has carried me through my life. I'm so thankful. Man, this has been my favorite interview. I finally got to talk to the person that [31:22] That was shaping my fatherhood. [31:25] around and [31:27] I can't thank you enough, Mr. Hudson. And I know you're going to say call you Ernie, but you are Mr. Hudson right now. And because I owe you that, because you mean that much to me. So thank you so much. Thank you. And you honor me by just saying that. I mean, honestly, I just, you know, you're the next generation coming up. So just, you know, I admire and appreciate you. Thank you. Just being your best. Thank you so much. And to all the viewers and listeners, remember, your because is your superpower. [31:55] Go Unleash It.