MISSING: Kiplyn Davis

[00:00] Hi, Crime Junkies. It's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap. It is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now wherever you get your podcasts. [00:30] Hi everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Crime Junkie. I'm your host Ashley Flowers. And I'm Britt. And we'd like to say welcome to all of our new junkies. We have gotten a lot of new listeners over the last couple of weeks and from what you've been telling us on social media you have binged, you have caught up, and now the struggle is real going week to week to get new episodes. But we're so glad that you've joined the Crime Junkie Club and a quick shout out to everyone [01:00] got us to the Spotify podcast homepage on Tuesday last week, which was incredible. And thank you to all the Apple podcast people who have been leaving us reviews. We are now pushing 600. So if you've been listening to us for 17 episodes on Apple podcast and still haven't reviewed, please do. We do this show for free and it's all we ask in return. [01:24] Before we jump right into the story, just a quick reminder that today's episode is brought to you by Crime Stoppers of Central Indiana. We are coming close to their big fundraising event on April 21st, 2018. And for all of you who listen and enjoy our show, please show support by donating to Crime Stoppers of Central Indiana. Even if it's just a buck or two, it's a huge help and you can do it super easily from their website, even if you're overseas. Just visit crimetips.org.

[01:54] Thank you. [02:23] This week's case is a listener's suggestion from Sarah in Kentucky. She actually wrote to us to tell us that in high school, she had a pen pal named Kiplin who lived out in Spanish Fork, Utah. And one day Sarah said, She said, [02:37] And she will never forget this. Her mom handed her the phone, and she had this look on her face that she had never seen before or since. And her mom just said, [02:47] It's the Spanish Fork, Utah police for you. Oh, my God. I know. That's like a call no one gets. Yeah. [02:54] Kiplin had gone missing, and after they found the letters from Sarah, they called her hoping maybe Kiplin's letters to Sarah could shed some light on where she was or what happened to her. She said that police thought that maybe she would have said something about running away or maybe even talked to someone in those letters at school who was giving her a hard time.

[03:24] cause her to run away, and there was no mention of anyone that Kiplen was afraid of or had troubles with. [03:29] So to have one of our listeners be this close with a victim like this, I was immediately intrigued and wanted to share with all of you Kiplin Davis's story. And here's where the story begins. [03:40] Kiplin lived with her family in Spanish Forks, Utah, which is a very small, predominantly Mormon town with a good sense of community. Kiplin was a social butterfly, one of the kinds of kids who loves going to school, but only because she gets to go there and socialize for eight hours and then after. She actually joined the drama club and she would participate in a number of ways in the plays, whether it was like helping with rehearsal or the set or lights or whatever. [04:10] [redacted address] on Tuesday, May 2nd of 1995. That morning, Kiplin's alarm goes off at 4 30 in the morning and Kiplin is taking a driver's ed class that starts before school. So she has to be up super, super early. [04:25] I'm like a full-grown adult, and I find it really hard to wake up at 4.30 in the morning. [04:30] Like many teenagers would do that morning, when her alarm goes off, she hits the snooze button. By the time 5 o'clock rolls around, her dad notices that she isn't up and ready to roll. So he goes into her room and wakes her up. She begs to stay home and skip class, saying that it's just one class. It won't make a difference. And since she's already slept, she's going to be late anyways. Like, I've made that argument. But her dad is like, no way. One class turns into two. You have to keep this commitment. You're going to class. And this makes her super pissed.

[05:00] doesn't have time to do her makeup. She's going to be late. She's tired. I know it's been a while since I was 16, but I can vividly remember the feeling of just starting the day and having no control over my own decisions and being told what to do. Yeah. I mean, you feel like your whole world is [05:16] crashing down because of this one decision that you don't have the authority to make. Yeah, it's like a very dramatic time in your life. And couple that with being tired, I would have been a huge B that day. So when she gets into the car, she has all of her stuff, she goes to meet her mom, and she's like, [05:31] her mom's the one that's going to drive her to school. She gets in the car and Kipland's just crying. And her mom doesn't even ask why. And now that I'm closer to mom age than I am to teenager age, I get that too. Like, we remember what it's like. It's all drama over nothing. So she just let her calm down. It'll be a new day by the time school's over and she sees her. [05:49] So she stops crying. By the time she drops her off, like everything seems to be fine. They say goodbye and she walks off and goes into school. [05:56] Mom goes about her day, dad goes about his day, and no one notices that anything is off until 3.30 in the afternoon. Kiplin's dad gets home, and Kiplin isn't there. She's always home by 3.30. He could set his watch by it. So the first thing he does is check the family's answering machine, thinking maybe she left a message for him saying that she'll be home late, something came up after school, who knows, but that's what he checks. He hits play on the answering machine, and his heart sinks.

[06:26] Hiplin. Her school called to let her parents know that she didn't show up for any of her classes after lunch. [06:33] he immediately feels like something is wrong because even though it was 1995, they actually all had cell phones. So if Kipling had to leave or something happened, she would have called and told her parents. She wasn't the kind to just play hooky and run away and [06:46] He has no idea what's going on. He calls Kipland's mom. They both kind of wait in pace, and by five o'clock when they still haven't heard anything from her, they start calling around to her friends. And as they're getting a hold of them one by one, they're finding that no one remembers seeing her after lunch. [07:01] They go to the high school around 7 or 7.30 to see if maybe she's still there for some reason, even though she skipped her classes. And there was no one there who had seen her. She isn't there herself. So they go then check out her church. Maybe she stopped by there. But again, they come up empty. And they're running out of ideas and they're running out of places to check. So finally that evening, they call the cops. So she's been missing for seven, eight hours by now and they haven't called the police yet? [07:31] really real. Everyone believes that bad things won't happen to them, you know, like you're the exception to the rule and at the end of the day, it's just going to be some misunderstanding. And [07:40] Calling the cops, like, [07:43] They have to basically say they believe something bad happened to her. But they do get to that point where they can't hide it from themselves anymore and they know something bad has happened, so they need help. When the police get contacted, their first response is that it's probably not a big deal. Kipling probably went off with some friends, maybe a boy. She was actually super pissed around that time at her parents because she had been asked out a couple of times and they told her she couldn't date until she was 16, so maybe she was off with a boy.

[08:12] They don't do any heavy searches, but they put out a be on the lookout. They can't do that much more that evening. Well, Kiplin's parents can't just sit at home and wait. They need to keep busy. So they keep contacting Kiplin's friends. And they finally get in touch with one of her friends named Eli. Eli. [08:27] Eli says that he saw her shortly before lunch with a senior guy named Chris, who's in the drama club with her. Eli says he isn't a huge fan of Chris, which doesn't help put Kipland's parents' mind at ease. Chris also is mentioned in Kipland's journal, which they had gone through to see if that could give them any clues. She said that she had given him a hug and her kiss, and even though it's not super juicy, they think maybe Chris knows something, and he's at least a good place to start. So they go to Chris's house on the other side of town. [08:56] And when Kiplin's dad knocks on the door, the only person home is Chris's sister. She tells them that Chris hasn't been home [09:03] since before school and he's likely still at school because he's setting up for a play and he often stays really late to like 10 or 11 at night. [09:12] So her dad goes back to the school. And by this time, it's like 10, 1030 at night. And there's no one there. The doors are locked. He doesn't see anyone moving around inside. And this makes him even more concerned and alarmed at the fact that Chris's sister is either lying or she doesn't know where he is. But he's MIA as well, just like his daughter. Yeah, that would make me super suspicious. Yeah. [09:37] I'd probably go right back to Chris's house and be like, okay, not there. What's next? I'll sit here until he shows up. Right. Well, her dad had the same idea. He can't let go of this feeling that something's wrong and Chris might be with her. So he goes back to Chris's house on the other side of town. And it's after midnight at this point when he gets there. And there's a light on in his house. So he knows someone has to be up. And there's a car in the driveway that he recognizes. It's the car of a former classmate of Kipling's named Rucker,

[10:07] could tell was about the same age as Chris, but had possibly dropped out of school. So people are obviously home, they're likely up, and there's someone over who's friends with Chris, but doesn't live there. And just a little side note from what I picked up online, I think Rucker may have asked Kiplin out before she had gone missing. He was one of a couple of guys who had asked her out, and like I said, she wasn't allowed to date. So her dad sees his car, sees this Chris guy that she gave a hug to, and kind of thinks even more about, [10:35] Like, my gosh, I hope she wasn't out with these boys behind our back. Maybe that's why she hasn't been in contact. But he does something that I don't understand, and he just drives away. [10:44] just leaves it there, just knows they're in the house, knows that they might [10:48] have information he could at least talk to them and leave. Yeah her dad said like when he was interviewed about this said listen it's small town Utah there are certain manners that you have that dictate how you act and even in a crisis knocking on someone's door after 10 is just something you don't do. That's their personal time. I'm gonna come back to one of our crime junkie rules and twist it a little bit. This is a great opportunity to be rude. Yes yes listen I feel the same way. I

[11:18] weird. I'm all about being rude. And this is what I was saying before. When it comes to your safety or the safety of your loved ones, you're allowed to ignore your manners. And I don't want to judge them. I'm sure that not going into the house that night eats away at them every single day of their life. And they don't need some know-it-all a-hole from Indiana telling them, you know, what they should have done. Because what I've also learned from all these cases that we've researched is it's super easy to say what you would have done, but you never ever know how you're going to actually [11:48] kind of see them wanting to play it down, like have that hope that, oh my, she's just being a rebellious teenager. Nothing bad is really happening. I'm overreacting. So her dad goes home, and the next morning when Kipling still hasn't turned up, they finally get some help from the police. At 7.30 in the morning on May 3rd, 1995, the school resource officer, who's also a sergeant in the police department, starts going around to all of the classes and making an announcement that anyone who knows anything, whether you've seen it, heard it, [12:18] you need to come forward to help us find Kiplin. [12:21] At this point, he really doesn't believe an outsider was involved. It's way more likely that Kiplin went with somebody that she knew and they were going to start there first. He looks at Chris first because his actions have been kind of fishy as hell. And he knows that he isn't a great student. He has some attendance issues. But when he goes to talk to him during his social studies class, Chris isn't nervous at all. He admits to being with Kiplin when Eli saw them together before lunch. And he said that he spent their lunch hour in the auditorium practicing some dance moves.

[12:51] But then he didn't see her and then he was back in all of his classes that afternoon. He said that after school he was in the auditorium again setting up for the play and he was there until way late in the evening. Because he's a stagehand and does all the sets he tells the officer that he works really late and not necessarily like while they're having play practice. So that would explain why maybe her dad came and didn't see a bunch of kids because he's the one setting up the set. He really can't do that if there's a bunch of people on the stage. [13:21] so he could have very well been there, even if the place looked locked up and empty. [13:27] For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. [13:46] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. Listen to The Deck now, wherever you get your podcasts. [13:56] So Chris's official story is that he was at the school until about 11 o'clock, but he wasn't alone. He said that two of his friends, one Rucker and one Tim, came to visit and helped him set up the lights, and then they kind of just tossed a football around in the auditorium. So technically he has an alibi? Yes, technically. I mean, his alibi is just these two other guys. But one thing that I kind of keep coming back to is when...

[14:24] Kiplin's dad went to Chris's house. He recognized Rucker's [14:28] his truck, immediately. And [14:31] I don't know how big this school is or what the parking lot looked like, but one thing that I would love to know is you would think that if all these guys were in the auditorium and Rucker's one of the guys there with him later in the evening, you think Kiplin's dad would have seen his truck that he obviously knows in that parking lot. [14:48] Either way, [14:49] They take Chris's statement and they let him go back to class because without Kiplin or without any evidence, they can't do anything with him yet. And even though he might not be a model student, the resource officer looks into his past. He doesn't have anything violent in his background that would make the resource officer believe he would do something bad to Kiplin. What they can do, though, while they're waiting is they go to these other guys who are his alibis and they check out Chris's story with them. The two of them, though, say the exact same thing. They visit Chris at the auditorium. They throw around the football. [15:19] the end. And even though they're verifying each other's alibis, there really isn't any way to prove what they're saying. I love the 90s just as much as you, but when it comes to investigations, let's be honest, they suck. Yeah. There's never any video or cell towers to ping off of or anything to really track down a person and verify their location. Truly, she might as well have gone missing on Little House of the Prairie because all of the evidence they have, all the alibis they [15:49] So they have these guys that they don't feel great about, but they can't prove anything. Meanwhile, they're making announcements every single day, multiple times a day over the loudspeaker at school, and they keep pushing these kids for info because they know there's likely someone out there who's heard or knows something.

[16:08] something but kids kind of suck and they don't want to talk to like police or authority or rat anyone out while they're digging around they find something interesting [16:16] That day that she disappeared, a kid named Brandon had asked her to go out that weekend. And even though she isn't allowed to date, she had actually told him yes because she had a major crush on him. Well, the same day that he asked her out, he had come up to her right before fourth period when she had skipped school to tell her, listen, I'm sorry, I can't take you out anymore. Apparently, he was kind of seeing someone else. She got wind of it and squashed it. [16:43] So police are wondering though, okay, maybe he went out with her anyways. Maybe they skipped class to be together because when they look at his attendance records, they find out that Brandon also skipped the exact same classes. [16:58] And as police dig into his records, they find out that he had actually tried to have his girlfriend change his attendance record to cover his tracks, but she wasn't able to. So he was gone and tried to cover it up? That's a huge red flag! Yes and no. Like, even if he, even if something had not happened to Kipling, I could see why you want to try and cover up the fact that you skipped school. But either way, it looks bad. I mean, he's one of the only kids who had the exact same attendance record as Kipling that day.

[17:28] clue what happened to her. He admits that he left class to try to find her and apologize for canceling because he felt really bad, but he couldn't find her, so he just ends up ditching school, he says. He even says that his alibi is on the way home, he got a flat tire and had to call his friend to come out and help him change it. Well, when they check this with a friend, [17:47] His friend says this never happened. [17:50] And even when they confront Brandon with this, he sticks to the same story. And police kind of chalk it up to his misremembering his days, even though they don't love his story or the fact that he has no alibi. It's kind of the same situation with Chris and Rucker and Tim. They can't prove anything. So they have to walk away from him and just keep this info in their back pocket. [18:10] Thank you. [18:11] The one thing, though, that the school resource officer said is when he was interviewing him, Brandon, he said, seemed really innocent. He was really quick with all of his responses. He was confident. And he feels like he wasn't hiding anything. And a little side note, I learned a fun trick at this conference I went to a couple of weeks ago where this woman there is this body language expert. And she's basically a human lie detector. And I'm obsessed with her. I want to be her. [18:41] their story backwards they can tell it forward like boom boom boom they'll give you a count of their day because that's how they practice telling it like in chronological order but apparently if you ask somebody to like just okay now walk me through the day backwards it totally trips them up and i had never heard that before but i'm dying to try it on somebody

[19:00] Yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah. I have no clue if police use this trick, but it's just a fun tidbit I thought I'd share with you. Anyways, Kiplin's case is grinding to a halt because they aren't finding her. They aren't finding anything that would lead police to a crime scene. Just nothing. And the police end up holding a major press conference to announce that the FBI are joining the team to help out. And everyone thinks, surely, once the big guns step in, this case is going to be solved. But time continues to drag on for weeks and then months. [19:30] year has passed and even though police and the FBI are digging through tips, nothing has panned out. That is, until one day when Kiplin's dad gets a knock on his door. [19:41] And it's Chris. [19:43] And he opens the door and Chris says, I need to get something off of my chest. He did it. Not what he says, no. He knows who did it. Still not what he says. He knows where her body is? No, he comes over to her dad's house. And what he wants to get off his chest is this. He says, I want you to know I had nothing to do with Kiplin's disappearance. And Kiplin's dad immediately thinks this is super fishy. Like, why are you coming to my house a year after my daughter goes missing? [20:13] to say, "You have to get it off your chest that you didn't do anything to her." He starts putting the pressure on him to tell him, "What do you know? Like, you can't hide what you've done forever. Tell me what happened to her." And Chris just keeps saying he has no idea and he just eventually leaves. [20:28] Well, Kiplin's dad reports this encounter to the police, and they admit that it's super weird. So they decide to turn up the heat on these three boys who say that they were all together that night. And one by one, they're brought in for questioning, and they even take polygraphs. They start with Chris. While he's hooked up to the machine, they ask him, did you have anything to do with Kiplin's disappearance? And he says no. And according to the polygraph, he was being honest.

[20:58] Interesting. Before his polygraph, they have him do a written statement, thinking, like most would, that he's going to write down the same thing that he's been saying for the last year, that these kids were together, they were throwing the football, nothing happened. Right. Well, he puts pen to paper, and he admits to seeing Kiplin after school that day. And he said that Rucker and Kiplin and him were all together together. [21:21] and they all went to Spanish Fork Canyon. And when they got up there, [21:25] Tim waited in the car and said that Rucker and Kipling kind of walked over this hillside together. And when Rucker came back, Kipling wasn't with him. And when he asked him about this, he said, listen, just don't worry about it. What? Yeah, police are stunned. They've never heard any account even close to this. So he's basically telling them that two people were there. One came back. Kipling has to be somewhere in the canyon. And one of them had to have done something to her. When they start pressing him on his story, he just closes off. [21:55] And then he's asked for a lawyer and just won't speak again. Oh my god, can't they arrest him for that? Like, for the story at least? Not with what they have. It like wasn't a full confession. He didn't have a lawyer there. It wouldn't hold up in court. Literally all they can do at this point is take that piece of paper out of the trash, add it to his file, and try and verify anything that he said. So the first thing they do to try and do that is they confront Rucker with this story. And while he's hooked up to the polygraph, they confront him with this story, and he swears it's a lie, swears he had nothing to do with it, [22:25] passes his polygraph as well. [22:27] So if they can't get anyone to talk, their best bet then is finding some physical evidence that links Tim's story to like being true. The police, along with Kiplin's family, along with volunteers, and along with a dog team, all go to that canyon and they launch a massive search. They have full excavating equipment, digging up dirt. They have volunteers like...

[22:47] sifting the dirt, they're running the dogs through everything, but they find absolutely nothing. No sense, no bones, nothing comes up. And at this point, the family has Kiplin declared legally dead. And they do a small memorial with a headstone because they're, [23:02] They felt like this is the closest to closure that they're going to have without bringing her home. And nothing happens again for years. Again, she went missing in 1995. And it's not until 2002 when Kiplin's dad gets an idea on how to push his daughter's case forward. He hears about the Elizabeth Smart case. And in that instance, the state government got all caught up in a legal battle about the mental health of Elizabeth's kidnapper and whether or not he could actually be tried. So nothing was happening. [23:32] wasn't moving forward. Well, Elizabeth Smart's family went to the federal court's [23:37] and had the federal courts convene a grand jury to indict him, and they were able to get the case to trial federally that way. So Kipling's dad thinks, okay, maybe this is an option for us too. So he starts writing letters to everyone, police, DAs, congressmen, and eventually it pays off because they all agreed to bring a grand jury together and present all the circumstantial evidence that they have. But there's not that much. Do they have more after all these years? [24:02] No, but there are two things [24:04] that they didn't have before. [24:06] One is lying under oath is a whole different kind of punishment than just lying to a cop. It's way more severe and they think that maybe this will pressure the guys to actually tell the truth or give more information than they had in the past. The second thing is by the time they actually bring this to a grand jury, it's been eight years later. So all these kids that were kids are now grown up and have families of their own and many are willing to talk when they wouldn't before.

[24:36] to light about strange interactions people had with the boys [24:40] That maybe points to their guilt. Really? Like what? Well, they listened to testimony for two years. And some of the weird stories that they heard were like, for example, one person said that the time that police did those polygraphs and Tim threw Rucker under the bus, right after that, [24:58] Rucker was seen threatening Tim for dropping his name, which again... [25:03] people would think you wouldn't do if you really had nothing to do with it. I think I would yell at somebody if they were dropping my name, even if I didn't. That's a pretty crappy thing to do. Another story they heard that they had never heard before is Chris's wife comes forward, and she said one day they're sitting down having a movie night, and they're watching So I Married an Axe Murderer. [25:20] great movie. [25:23] And she looks over at Chris and says, you know, what's the worst thing you've ever done in your life? And he turns to her and said, what if I told you I murdered Kiplin Davis? [25:35] I recently learned that after working out, performance and recovery come down to what's happening in your blood. Now, I pay a lot more attention to what's happening inside my body. And here's what most people overlook. Training gives your body the stimulus, but your internal environment determines what happens next. Thankfully, function can help you see exactly what's going on under the hood. Things like your glucose, whether your body is burning clean or running on fumes. Your omega-6 to omega-3 ratio, which one is winning the inflammation battle. Your DHEAS, one of the building blocks your body uses to make testosterone. [26:05] one of the first things to quietly decline. When these markers are off, you can do everything right and still feel like you're fighting against yourself. Check in on your health. Function provides over 160 labs for $1 per day and member pricing on MRI and CT scans. Join at functionhealth.com slash crimejunkie or use gift code crimejunkie25 for a $25 credit toward your membership.

[26:25] And her face just drops. And as soon as he sees her reaction, he's like, no, no, no, I'm just kidding. But it's something that always stuck with her. Um, yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's one of those things that, I mean, guys are dumb and they make bad jokes sometimes, but it was a weird joke to make. That's dark. [26:44] Another story that came out was that Timmy was at a party years before this grand jury testimony, and something came on the TV about Kipling. And he blurted out that he knew where she was, he was the one that did it, and she got what she deserved. And two separate people heard this account, and both these people testified to this. And there were more stories. I mean, one. [27:05] Mostly against Tim, people had lots of stories about Tim. He's saying he confessed drunk or sober. He said he would tell people he knew how to get rid of bodies and that he'd done it before. And he would name different places to all these different people saying where he buried her. Like, for example, one of the stories he told was that he and this other person who he wouldn't name were all together. And Tim got in a fight with Kiplin. [27:35] and put her in his truck and then moved it right then and there. Well, all three men, now grown, take the stand. And even though all of these people are saying stories about them knowing what happened or having something to do with it, they stick to their same story. But the judge decides there's enough evidence to charge them all with lying to the grand jury. The majority of the testimony was against Tim. So he's charged with 15 counts of perjury and sentenced to 12 and a half years in federal prison.

[28:05] you [28:05] How? [28:06] clearly whatever these guys did, they were in it together, right? Yeah, but unfortunately, that's how the justice system works. It's all about what you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. And there are so many local cases I know about where they know exactly who did it, how they did it, why they did it, but they just don't have enough to go to court so nothing happens. But perjury is just the beginning in this case. They do feel like now that they have these perjury charges, now that they have all of this grand jury testimony, they feel like they have enough to [28:36] level now. Their theory of the crime when they took this to court was that Tim killed her and Chris was an accessory. Chris pleads no contest to obstruction of justice, so he gets a plea deal with no extra time. What? I know. Tim ends up taking a deal too in order to avoid trial, knowing that he had a line of people ready to testify against him all over. So, [29:00] His plea deal is basically he takes responsibility for some part of Kipling's death, but he said that he just witnessed the crime and helped her move his body. His official statement in the plea was that another person, he, one other person, and Kipling were all together and this other person walked off into the canyon with Kipling and after they didn't come back for like 35-40 minutes, he went looking for them and when he found them, this other person struck her across the right side of [29:30] And then he saw the other person strike her on the right side again in the head with the rock. Then he says that he approached this other person, asked what was going on. And the person says, listen, like, don't worry about it. Just help me move the body. And at this point, Kiplin was at least unconscious. And Tim said that he didn't know whether she was dead or not. So they move her body underneath a line of trees. They return to their vehicle. And this second person and him just, like, left the area. Neither of them got help for her.

[30:00] to move Kiplin's body with this other person's vehicle. And at the time when they came back, they said it was really apparent that she was dead. - This other person, it's gotta be one of the boys, right? - Yeah, so that's the thing is he, no one knows for sure. He won't say, it's most likely [30:15] Chris or Rucker. Most every statement I've ever heard is about the two of them and that Chris and Tim were the only two that got charged with murder charges. But Rucker's the one that has the vehicle that kept getting seen. Rucker and Tim are the ones that weren't in school. So I don't know. Like he, I don't know why he won't say who this other person is. It's a total mystery. I go back and forth between [30:38] you know, whether it was Chris or Ruck or myself. And even under oath, none of them are saying where her body is. No. Part of the plea deal that Tim took and that the DA and Kipling's family agreed to, as long as he pled guilty, is that he wouldn't have to give them any kind of location. And he didn't have to name this individual that helped him or did the act. Everything is very vague. Kipling's father, I felt so bad for him. He literally... [31:04] begged [31:05] Tim for answers. He even offered to help Tim. He said, I will be your biggest advocate if you will just tell me where my daughter is, but Tim never would. So how much more time did Tim get added to his sentence? [31:16] Okay, that's the sickening part. Because of this plea deal, and he was only pleading guilty to felony manslaughter, which holds a sentence of like 1 to 15 years, but those years run concurrently with his already 12 and a half year sentence. So even if they give him the max at 15, he only has to serve a couple of more years in prison. Tim's story was still different every time though, right? Every single time. And not like, I mean, even in trial, in his grand jury testimony,

[31:46] and every time someone came to the witness stand with a story about what he said, it was different every time. Where he buried her was different. How he killed her was different. Who killed her was different. So I think that's what leaves still so many questions around this case, even though people are and have been arrested. There's a big mystery because I don't feel like anyone's telling the truth and I have to believe that police know more than me and what they've released on the internet, but the police and the family feel really sure that it is these three men. [32:16] What I have to wonder is they got such stellar deals, like plea deals for pleading guilty, that it would be stupid to take it to trial. Like if you're already serving 12 and a half years and you basically can – [32:29] serve the time for this other thing at the same time and not risk going to trial, why not just take the plea deal? And if you're Chris and they're gonna give you [32:36] no extra time for pleading guilty, why not just do it? Even if you had nothing to do with it. So there's a small part of me that kind of wonders if these kids may have been telling the truth. And they were just like all along being dumb, dumb boys who were like trying to tell scary stories or be big men when they had nothing to do with it. There were actually five men in total who were charged with perjury, but these two other guys don't really come up a lot and no one seems to

[33:06] happened eight years after the disappearance, they were able to find out that the night the guys said that they were tossing around this football in the auditorium, there was some kind of choir concert going on. So there actually would have been no way they would have been there. So [33:21] There's a big hole in their alibi. It's definitely... [33:23] pointing to them and I can see why everyone keeps coming back to them even though they won't tell, you know, give the family closure and say where the body is. [33:31] It's so twisted to... [33:34] Admit that you were involved or you helped [33:37] or you did it, but not give the family the closure of where the body is, what actually happened, who actually was involved. It just seems excessively cruel on top of this really tragic thing that happened to them. I agree. That's what I can't figure out either. Is it... [33:55] something that he's like keeping for himself, like a very personal and like, is it, he's just kind of a messed up dude and he's keeping that for himself? Or again, I kind of go back to it. Like what if there's a slim chance that it wasn't them and he can't tell them where the body is because he has no idea. The one question I have too, that I think itches my brain over and over is I, no one ever talks about why Kiplin left school that day. Was she going to meet Tim and Rucker who weren't in school? How did she decide to meet up with them in the middle of the day? Why would she have gone [34:25] with them? Did she like one of them? To me, that is kind of one of the biggest questions around all of this is when did all this happen and why did Kiplin leave with these men if she did?

[34:38] Was it, I mean, it could be just as simple as she was still mad that she had to go to school in the first place. Right. And depending on how the parole goes and their behavior, Chris is already out of jail. Rucker's out of jail. Tim is actually could be released very, very soon. So I would hope that someday if it was him, he would grow conscious and... [34:58] give Kiplin's family some closure. [35:00] If you all want to see any pictures of people we talked about in today's episode, you can go to our website, CrimeJunkiePodcast.com. And be sure to follow us on Twitter at CrimeJunkiePod and on Instagram at CrimeJunkiePodcast. [35:14] And if you want to hear about Pruppets, stay tuned after the credits. We are going to give you a Pruppet of the Month story along with a real-life, [35:25] be weird, be rude, stay alive story. [35:43] Crime Junkie is written and hosted by me, [35:46] All of our sound production and editing comes from Britt Prewatt. [35:51] And all of our music, including our theme, comes from Justin Daniel. Crime Junkie is an AudioChuck production. [35:57] So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve? [35:59] *Moooow* [36:02] So Britt, before we jump into our prep of the month, I have to tell you about a call that I got today from my sister. And she did not follow any of the rules that we give her on Crime Junkie. And it was just so weird. I had to share it.

[36:19] So she calls me and she's like, you know, I came into work and I pulled up and there's this old guy just sitting in his car. And his car is parked. You know how the lines say they're horizontal? Well, he's parked vertical over like three spaces right in front of her door. Oh, good. Totally normal. Yeah. Right. So she's immediately like gets chills down her spine. And that is the feeling I'm talking about that you have to listen to. And so she kind of walks around him and just goes directly into the office. [36:49] And is like doing work in there. And keeps checking. And he doesn't get out of his car. He doesn't do anything. He is just sitting there. So finally she has to go out and like do her rounds on the property. So before she goes out she asks this guy. Can I help you with anything? Like do you have a unit here? What's going on? She works at like a storage unit facility. [37:09] And... [37:10] This old guy is like super creepy and is saying like, no, you know, I've I've lost my wallet. Will you help me find my wallet? And she's that's what I said. You know, it gets worse. And the guy is like, Alyssa's like, I don't know. Like, do you know where your wallet be? He's like, I think it's in the trunk. Can you open my trunk and see if you can find my wallet in my trunk? And I scream. No, no, no. [37:40] Thank you. [37:40] And... [37:41] Alyssa goes I know but I did it and I was like what am I thinking she's like I like I had terrible feelings about this guy she's like I didn't I don't know what made me do it and she's like but he said that his leg was hurt and so that's why he couldn't do it and he like wasn't getting out of the car okay Ted Bundy exactly Ted Bundy and she's like I know everything I did was totally wrong I couldn't I couldn't stop myself but she's like I just kind of like peeked it open didn't see

[38:11] crazy because she's like but what I did is I recorded him on my phone and I'm like why and she was like I don't know like just in case like something happened like I wanted him recorded and it made me think of the Delphi case yeah because I get like like none of it makes sense to her I go what if he would have done something that recording isn't going to save your life that recording doesn't do anything to help you and she's like I know but somehow it just made me feel safe it seemed right so I kind of understand I mean it's exactly what I thought happened before with these [38:41] so weird to think that you are actually scared and your first reaction isn't to call the police. She's like, you know, I don't want to bother the police. And I'm like, Alyssa, you are a taxpaying citizen. That is what they're there for. Such a Midwestern answer, though. Like, oh, I'll be fine. Don't bother with me. I know. So he ended up like sticking around. She did end up calling the police. Nothing bad happened. But it's just like it goes to show you that even no matter how much we say it, people, when you're in the situation... [39:09] It can be intimidating to be weird and be rude. Luckily, she's still alive. And hopefully, she will do better next time. Oh, my God. Did you yell at her for this? Oh, I screamed at her. I was like, what were you thinking? Like, we couldn't, like, I would have never known who this guy was. You would have your phone, but that doesn't help me. I was like, if this guy's sketching you out, like, call the police or lock yourself in your office or lock yourself in your office and call a co-worker. Like, literally, there was a thousand other things you could have done, but what the thing you did. [39:39] Just don't look in the guy's trunk. Like, because in my mind, he's going to like knock you over, stuff you in his trunk, and then we never see you again. Yeah, that's exactly what he would have done. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[39:49] I know. So my heart was like racing today. I gave her a good scolding, like a big sister scolding. And I think next time she will do better. So on to profit of the month. So the consensus from our survey that we did was 90% of people really wanted us to keep this in some form. Like half the people voted profit of the week. The other half said, let's just try profit of the month to make everyone happy. So we're going to try a monthly schedule for a while and see how it goes. [40:19] we do them. So for those of you who don't want to hear about an adorable, furry best friend, you can turn off the show and it won't ruin your crime. [40:38] - Bye. [40:39] For the month of March, we are going to be talking about Amy Larson's dogs. And she has three. So I kind of cheated a little bit. And even though we're only doing it once a month, I picked three dogs. And it's Corbin, Ivy Bean, and Elvis. And Elvis and Ivy Bean are both herds. They're German shepherds. And Corbin is a German shepherd as well. But he is actually a foster pup who's up for adoption. So I'm going to give you a quick scoop on Elvis and Ivy Bean. [41:09] talking about the adorable Corbin who needs a forever home. Elvis is a four-year-old black and tan German Shepherd dog. He's high energy, ball obsessed, and she says he's slightly neurotic. But he's loyal and loving and just an all-around good boy. And he loves morning snuggles. His green ball is his favorite thing in the world. He loves playing Frisbee. And she says she loves him almost as much as her kid, which I totally get.

[41:39] German Shepherd. And she has like the sweetest adoption story. Someone who owned her before dropped her out of a car at a gas station as a puppy. [41:48] No. So she ended up adopting her. Yes. She's laid back. She's stubborn, much like my dog, Charlie. And she says she's totally her 12-year-old daughter's dog. She hasn't quite grown into her ears yet. And I'll post pictures on the website if you guys want to see her. [42:03] But she doesn't care about toys at all unless her brother Elvis wants them. Then she does. So the dog that she has that's up for adoption is Corbin. He's an 8-year-old black lab German Shepherd. And he's lived as a part of Amy's family for 10 months while they look for his special family. He's a total goofball. You can't leave socks on the floor because he'll take them. But he just loves to eat and lounge around and watch TV. But he will never, ever turn down a walk. [42:33] sounds exactly like Charlie. Yeah, it does. And Amy said she would keep him in a heartbeat, but if she did keep him, she couldn't help save other puppets. And it truly takes a special person to be... [42:46] foster mom. Foster mom to pets and I don't think a lot of people know this about you Britt but you're a foster mom to humans too. I am. I've been a foster parent for two and a half years. [42:56] and it's hard and amazing and I cannot imagine doing it with dogs because I get attached to humans and I get really attached to dogs. Yeah, I think it takes, I would love to do it, but Eric won't let me because he knows I can't. And so that's why I donate money and time to different organizations that take care of animals because it's such a big heart you have to have to take care of some animals.

[43:21] some dogs, some people, take them into your home, love them like they're your own, but then also give them to someone else who's going to give them a forever home. [43:29] So she wants to be able to do that for more dogs, which is why she's putting him up for adoption. And he doesn't do cats or small dogs, but he does really well with other big dogs. And he's available for adoption through the Missouri German Shepherd Rescue. Their website is M-O-G-R. [43:47] s rescue.org and you can find them on facebook the organization was founded because in 2011 german shepherds were declared the number two homeless dogs in america and it continues unabated tens of thousands of german shepherds are dumped and killed each year and even though they're 100 volunteer and everyone has full-time jobs and families they devote tens of thousands of hours [44:17] shepherds or you just love preppets in general consider going to mogsrescue.org and donating to their organization and if you're in missouri and you're in need of a preppet yourself go on their website and take a look at corbin and see if maybe you could give him a forever home oh okay [44:36] you [44:37] Bye. [44:41] Thank you. [44:43] Okay, crime junkies, you know I absolutely love a twist and a turn, especially when it comes to people who turn out to be someone they're not. That's why I have been obsessed with the podcast Chameleon. Every Thursday, host Josh Dean deep dives into a scam so bizarre, it will leave you wondering, how did they get away with that?

[45:02] It is truly one of my favorite podcasts right now and I've been listening for years. [45:05] I think you'll love it too. [45:07] Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.