TRUMP CURSES KNICKS

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[01:28] Welcome to Plot Save America, I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor. On today's show, we'll talk about the biggest outbreak of violence in the Middle East since the so-called ceasefire went into effect. [01:39] Why Trump ripped off his mic and stormed out of a Meet the Press interview. His new conspiracy about voter fraud here in California and what that could mean for November... [01:49] Scott Pelley going public with his allegations against Barry Weiss, and Trump's decision to attend Game 3 of the NBA Finals at Madison Square Garden. Then Tommy talks to Roger Bennett of Men in Blazers about the World Cup kicking off on Thursday and the implications for global politics. Before we start... [02:06] If you don't like listening to podcast ads, subscribe to Crooked Media and become a friend of the pod because you get ad-free episodes of all your favorite Crooked pods. Plus, you get to support... [02:17] uh, pro-democracy, independent media. Uh, Scott Pelley hasn't accused us of injecting any, any bias yet, yet. Hmm. [02:26] into any of his reporting. But once he starts, [02:30] Yeah. We do this. He's crooked. [02:32] Hopefully we'll keep the bias out of his reporting. We don't have time to inject bias into Scott Pelley's reporting. We're too busy injecting him bias into everything we do. There you go. That's what I was trying to get at. Thank you. That's perfect. Let's put that right in. Yeah. Um... [02:43] And you also get access to all of our great sub stacks. You get our subscriber only shows like Polar Coaster with Dan Pfeiffer and lots of other fun perks. So consider subscribing. All right. Happy 100 day anniversary to the war that was supposed to be over in just a few weeks. Here's where things stand with Iran in the Middle East. As of this recording, over the weekend, the U.S. and Iran were shooting drones and missiles at each other after oil tankers tried to pass through the Strait of Hormuz without the IRGC's permission.

[03:13] and Lebanon fell apart when Israel bombed Beirut after claiming that Hezbollah targeted them first. Iran responded by launching missiles at Israel for the first time since the April ceasefire. Trump then told Axios that he would warn Netanyahu, quote, [03:26] not to retaliate and told the Financial Times that he, quote, calls the shots. Netanyahu doesn't call the shots. Then Netanyahu essentially said, yes, I do call the shots and struck Iran. So for now, both sides seem to have de-escalated. And on Monday morning, Trump posted that final peace negotiations are, quote, subject to ignorance or stupidity getting in its way. The president was asked about the war in a pre-recorded Meet the Press interview that ran on Sunday. [03:56] some of what he said as it rained heavily in the background. Is the United States at war with Iran? Well, they've been largely decapitated, and I call it a military exercise because people would rather have it called that. It's not a big war for us. How long are you willing to give Iran to make a deal? How much longer? You've been talking for quite some time. Well, you really haven't. Again, you were in Vietnam for 19 years. You were in Iraq for many years. [04:26] Gas is up, diesel is up. It's all coming down as soon as the war's over. Well, 70% of farmers say they can't afford fertilizer. What's your message to... The farmers are doing very well. One of your consistent campaign promises was no new wars going all the way back to 2015. Did you break that promise to the American people? No, no.

[04:48] changed because you insisted no new works. That's so loud. That's why I didn't guarantee no war. [04:54] didn't guarantee no war uh the rain on this interview it's pouring rain they have to stop for periods of time i can't imagine anything more unpleasant than sitting in front of a tractor for five minutes while you wait for the rain to quiet down in between questions about fertilizer hammering on a tin roof and i know they had the john deere tractors like strategically placed but those are the hezbollah flag colors by the way feel free to google it that's those yellow and [05:24] So, as Trump said, of course, what promise? I didn't make any promise about No New Wars. And here's a not-so-fast montage put together by Decoding Fox News. [05:35] Oh, we can't vote for him. He's going to start a war. No, I used my personality that we didn't have to have wars. I was the first president in decades who started no new wars. Who started... [05:46] No new wars. We don't need the wars. Foreign lands, countries you've never heard of, countries that don't even want us there. We will expel the warmongers from our government. Look at me. I'm the one that kept us out of war. I'm going to keep you out of wars. I kept you out of wars. We had no wars with Donald Trump. You're not going to have a war with me and you're not going to have a third world war with me. That I can tell you. [06:09] The warmongers? It's a third world war. I think a third world war. Not a third world war. Oh, thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, look. And you're like, excuse me, Mr. President, it's a developing nation war? Yeah. Very dated Cold War terminology, sir. It's a global south war? Yeah, we're not aligned with the Soviets anymore. I don't know why I decided to go on that tangent. Do you think he's just convinced himself that...

[06:32] Iran doesn't count as a real war? What's the alternative? He's not telling the truth. [06:37] Yeah, I do think he's trying to make us believe this. No, the real wars are the ones where you send troops overseas, and they're deployed on the ground, and they occupy a country. And by the way, Vietnam was 19 years. Has it been 19 years, folks? No, this is a little... [06:48] "excursion," as he calls it, when we all think he means incursion still, right? Yeah. So I do think that's like their attempt at selling this. It's pretty tough though, given the outside economic costs, given the closure of the Strait of Hormuz. Yeah. There's just... Yeah. [07:01] There's a big space between no war... [07:04] and Vietnam, right? It's like, wow, we're so grateful you didn't launch another Vietnam. Well, we, [07:11] That's not the standard. It would be worse if this war had been going on as long as the Vietnam War. There's also something he's done before, but he is so glib when he talks about people who died. He's like, oh, this is not a big war. It's not a big conflict. You lost thousands in these other conflicts. We've only lost 13. And he adds a perfunctory and any death is unacceptable. But to hear an American president refer to the deaths as being minimal in this way, as if that is acceptable or that makes it okay, it's just – it's – [07:40] It's still jarring. - Yeah, and it's not just the fuel prices either. It's like fertilizer prices. It's actually hitting farmers pretty hard. His only real message [07:52] for farmers is like, just wait till it's over. Right. It'll get better. It'll get so much better. Just wait till it's over. By the way, that that's also, of course, not true. Right. Like prices aren't going to suddenly drop if there's an agreement. Maybe there's some like immediate effect. But like the ramifications of the closure of the straight up for moves are going to last for a very long time. So, Tommy, what did you make of the Wall Street Journal report on how Trump failed to rein in Netanyahu over these latest strikes? The New York Times had kind of the

[08:22] appearing as beholden to Trump as ever. So I think the context people need to understand is that the Israelis also have an election coming up. It will probably be sometime between now and October 27th is when it will get scheduled. And so for Trump, we know he has a midterm. A bad result will make his life complicated because of investigations and Democrats being in power. But for Netanyahu, staying in power is existential because that could be the only way he stays out of jail because there's all these corruption allegations and investigations. And so [08:49] But politically, Americans and Israelis feel very differently about the war. Americans are like, this is dumb. Why are we doing this? We heard that supercut of him saying there would be no wars. They're like, end it. Gas prices are high. End it. The Israelis feel like this is not going well. We have not won. [09:03] Netanyahu looks weak. And Netanyahu is actually getting attacked from the left and from the right for not finishing the war. And so he's in a tough place politically. And so Iran firing ballistic missiles directly at Israel because of something Israel did in Lebanon exacerbates that problem for Netanyahu further. So [09:21] Now Netanyahu is in a very tough political situation. He wants the Trump peace talks to fail, but he can't be completely overt in his meddling with those peace talks. He doesn't want to piss Trump off and then lose his political support and the military support. [09:36] He also can't look like he's being fully controlled by Trump. Like when Trump calls the FT and is like, I own this bitch. That's a tough place for him to be politically. And he also doesn't want to look like he's going to let Iran fire missiles at me, Mr. Security, be being on Yahoo without responding. So it was just he's in a very tough place. It sounds like they navigated it better on Sunday than they did in the last call, where I guess Trump was like, hey, man, you're a fucking asshole. You'd be in jail if not for me.

[10:06] You know, the divergent interests are making this more and more complicated every day. Did you see one U.S. official told Axios they described the call between Trump and Netanyahu as, quote, polite, while a second U.S. official noted that nobody shouted? There we go. That is the standard. Yeah, it is difficult for... [10:25] It makes diplomacy a little bit harder when Trump makes all of the subtext text all the time. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, as a rule. [10:35] When someone says, I call the shots around here, that's rarely said from a position of strength. You don't usually have to say it. If people know, if you're calling the shots, you don't have to say it. You're just in the midst of calling the shots. Like as he's been saying, he holds all the cards. I hold all the cards in this war and I call all the shots. Well, he's saying he calls all the shots in a call to the reporter before he calls the other guy who's the head of state. Stop shooting. Get the sequencing wrong, sir. Bibi said, I thought this was captured, the situation. Israel has a full right to self-defense and we are exercising it. [11:05] I say this with appreciation and respect for my good conversations with President Trump. And so he just does the praise piece, but then he does whatever he wants and maybe he's being limited in some ways and not in others. But if the US cannot constrain Israel from escalating in Lebanon, how can there be a [11:25] between Iran and the U.S. in which Israel at any moment can break the ceasefire. And so any ways in which the U.S. cannot constrain Israel is proof that [11:34] a deal will not be upheld by our side. And so we're just in this place where everyone's testing each other. And if the idea of success is getting Benjamin Netanyahu to only bomb outside of Beirut and not Beirut proper, and that's Donald Trump exerting his power, I don't know how that ends with Iran having confidence that we can maintain a ceasefire. This is the rub. Iran has, I think, very successfully made a peace deal contingent on the war ending on all the fronts. So in Iran

[12:04] Whereas the Israelis are like, no, these are different conflicts with different timelines. And we want to keep prosecuting this fight against Hezbollah because people in northern Israel are still under threat from drone attacks. And I think that's going to, again, come to conflict here. And from the other side, Iran has an interest in making this a larger conflict in which they can use the Hezbollah-Israel conflict as a part of their negotiation. And so they can prolong it there and then walk away from the table saying they're blaming Israel. Everybody is using the leverage that they have. [12:34] that Trump made to Netanyahu too was [12:37] Don't retaliate because I think I'm a few days away from a deal. And then if we don't get the deal, then maybe I'll lead. [12:44] uh, the, the strikes next time with you. Um, so he really does. He, that's another one where like, I think he genuinely believes, or at least his team keeps leading him on. Like we're so close. We're so, we're on the one yard line. We're so close to a deal and it just never actually happens. Yeah. I mean, I, I just, I'll believe it when I see it. And I think, and yeah, I was going to hate, [13:02] the deal that's on the table reportedly, we don't have to go through all the details, but it's a lot of sanctions relief and unfrozen assets. And so, yeah, again, it just seems like they're in very different pages here, Bibi and Trump. Well, even if it's this like mini deal where it's just reopening the strait and you don't even get into a ton of sanctions relief somehow, that doesn't really do anything about Israel and Lebanon. No, or it's all the nuclear issue. Yeah, of course. So meanwhile, as the ceasefire was teetering, Pete Hegseth was in Europe to mark the 82nd anniversary of D-Day, [13:32] he insulted our European allies with a speech that included lines like this.

[13:37] Sadly, today, different European beaches are stormed by different dangerous ideologies. [13:46] Beaches in Spain, in Italy, in Greece, in Bulgaria. Boats and men arrive. [13:55] When will European capitals do something about that invasion? [14:00] This is one of my favorite analogies I've ever seen in the history of speech writing, because in that analogy, [14:06] He is he is putting current European leaders. They are the Nazis. Right. And the the migrant caravans or boats. That's D-Day. Uh huh. And so the what? Why is you in your analogy? You're making the you're making the Germans the Nazis again. Well, he definitely wanted to twist it so that it's like. [14:23] different dangerous ideologies around the continent, but then also wanted to compare the boats landing with the boats landing. It didn't work on a number of levels. Yeah. No need to pick just one, but yeah. Yeah, the good guys were in the boat storming the beaches, and now the dangerous ideologies are storming the beaches. So it's like, sir, did the dangerous ideologies raise the flag at Iwo Jima? Because I feel like you've got this whole thing backwards. Well, I listened to the whole speech, and it's so bad. It's obviously, we can get into [14:53] going to Normandy on D-Day to pick a fight for some reason. But he also makes this point. It's always in this sort of like the kind of like... [15:01] whatever Christian nationalism, Western ideology thing that he's always doing. But he's like, you know, we defended Western values here at DJ or something to that effect.

[15:10] Guys, do you remember who the sides were in Europe? It was West on West violence. You know, it's like, you know, it's just it's just stupid. It's just stupid. It's also just like when you get underneath the bad analogies and PXF not being the best speaker. [15:25] Like the fact that, you know, replacement, the great replacement theory, which once used to be like this far right extremist thing that we talk about once in a while. Now it's like the U.S. Secretary of Defense goes to Europe and it's like the official position of the U.S. government that... [15:43] The problem with mass migration, we're not even going to pretend it's border security or it's job competition or it's like, you know, governments having to spend too much money to house migrants or anything like that. No, it's just it's dangerous ideologies. It is people who come ashore. [15:59] most of them women and children, some of them dead. He says men. He says men. Yes, it has to say men. Because they're so desperate and leaving their countries. And this represents a dangerous, evil ideology in the eyes of the U.S. government. And you said Christian nationalism. The Pope, the first American Pope, is going to spend July 4th on one of those islands, Lampedusa, where migrants come ashore, which he's doing because the last Pope also would do that all the time. And so he's doing it in honor of Pope Francis. [16:29] Pete Hexeth is talking about this is like evil. Migrants are as dangerous to Europe today. [16:34] as Americans were to the nothings. That's the analogy. He says in the speech that... [16:39] what was being defended on D-Day was the Western tradition of freedom, as if

[16:44] Again, it's just sort of going back to Christian nationalism and his sort of whole like Western ideology. But what are you talking about? Like we were there was a Western it was West on West violence doesn't make any sense. Yeah, they're also like there seem to be two criticisms in the speech. He he part of it is a criticism of like defense spending or lack of defense spending in Europe and have the typical free. You've been free riding on the US and NATO argument that we hear. And then there was. [17:09] This criticism of European immigration policy and European countries letting in migrants, many of whom were escaping wars, by the way, in some cases were started by the United States. Either way, it's just a wildly inappropriate place to be such a dickhead. Like usually the cemetery. Usually these are just celebrations of the few remaining veterans and the people we've we've lost in the war. It's also like an example of how the free world came together to defeat fascism. [17:39] to just kind of dangle in the wind in their effort to fight back against Vladimir Putin. So it's like, I don't know, just the whole thing felt so inappropriate. How many times have Republicans told us, like, that's not the forum to have a policy dispute, right? Like a memorial is not where you talk about gun control or like actual efforts to stop gun violence. And he's just going there and yelling at people for 13 minutes in this weird speech. A long way from Reagan's Ponda Hawk speech. Well, you know, I was thinking about that. He was thinking about that speech when he was trying to do this. [18:09] You have Vance weighing in on a horrible death in the UK. He's just traveling all the way to Normandy to weigh in. Immigration is a domestic issue. You're talking about a domestic policy issue. He also, to Tommy's point, says in World War II, we really put ourselves on the line for each other. It wasn't just slogans, summits, and communiques. Yeah, man, it was World War II. Yeah.

[18:34] We were at war. You had to actually fight everybody in peace, right? And you would work with your allies, presumably having some kind of conversations via whatever means you'd want. It's just very stupid... [18:47] like stupid guy uh like it's just just stupid just stupid guy be like hey uh no slogan there wasn't just like b-bag day speech right yeah it's like yeah i gotta go there tell you know i don't for me world war ii it wasn't just slogans like yeah man [19:01] Did you catch how it started? The most offensive line maybe was the very first line was, thank you, Ambassador Kushner. Oh, I didn't catch that. Jared Kushner's corrupt dad. Oh, my gosh. Who's our ambassador to France. Oh, is he France? Isn't that depressing? Yeah. I forgot about that. Sacre bleu. Good stuff. Well, happy D-Day. Thank you. [19:24] Pods of America is brought to you by Aura Frames. Dads love to tell stories, sometimes more often and for longer durations than they wish they would. This Father's Day, share some reference photos of the moments he's always talking about with Aura Frames. Honestly, a lot of dad stories would be much improved by a visual aid. Every Aura Frame features free unlimited storage, meaning you can add as many photos and videos as you want so the stories never end. It comes beautifully packaged in a premium gift box and you can preload photos before it even ships. [19:54] directly to your frame. Aura makes it easy to shop for dad or any great storyteller in your life. The Aura Frame is an awesome gift for any parent, especially if there is a grandkid that they want to see and see constantly, especially if there's a new pet in your life or you go on a great trip. It's just a really cool way to give someone who you love photos of you that rotate. It's not just, you know, one frame. It's a series of photos that keep you fresh in their heart and in their mind

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[21:47] offset did he stomp on the mic a lot of people were saying that he threw on the ground and so we can all we'll watch it it's unclear uh it started with some uh some tough questions from kristen welker about the insurrectionist slush fund which led to trump repeating his favorite conspiracies about january 6th in the 2020 election and then things just devolved from there uh the whole sequence lasted about six minutes which we won't play in full but but here are the [22:11] I don't know what's going to happen with the weaponization fund. I love the idea. They sent people to jail who did nothing wrong. Just to be very clear, there's no evidence of what you're saying. But the election was rigged. It was a dirty election. It's happening again right now in California. It's happening right now in California. Right now. It's looking look at what's happening in California. That it's four days and they aren't even close to coming up. [22:41] You know why they're doing that? Because they're cheating on the election. Do you have evidence to support that? All I have to do is look. You're either crooked or you're stupid. You play right into their hands with this. Your elections are crooked and you're crooked and the press is crooked. And so is ABC and CBS and CNN. But, Mr. President. You're one-sided crooked networks. Let's call it quits because I've had enough. Thank you, darling. Have a good time. Mr. President, please, I traveled all the way to Wisconsin. [23:11] I know. I travel all the way to Wisconsin. On and off in the rain, and I've given you enough time. You ought to straighten out your press because you know what? A country can never be great with a dishonest press. Listen, we traveled all the way to Wisconsin for the interview. I can't tell if he did it on purpose. I think he accidentally crunched it. Okay. Reminds me of when... Everything else was on purpose but that. When I went to Michigan and interviewed Bernie, and then about 12 minutes in, he's like this. That was a tough... Remember that, Austin? Wrap it up.

[23:41] That was a gut punch. That was a gut punch. You're either crooked or you're stupid. Actually, that's a great slogan for our subscriber push from now on. [23:50] Please consider subscribing in front of the pod because you're either crooked or you're stupid. Crooked.com slash friends. That was, he was very mad there. He really wrote like, you're crooked. He was like the part of the, I'm going to put the whole goddamn system on trial. You're crooked, they're crooked. CNN, NBC, ABC. Is there anyone else left? Schwarzenegger was worse at Apprentice than I was. [24:11] like she's the election yeah she doesn't go my elections but did you when they came back i watched the the the meet the press version and and when welker comes back uh after the interview she said i spoke to the president again and he said he'd happily come on again in the future so he called her so it's just it's all it's all a show he loves her also like she's such a nice calm measured person the idea that you would flip out on kristen welker like that is so funny you know why a baby he he flipped out because she said do you have the evidence where's the evidence it's like no and [24:41] in his mind it's just like well that's what my people told me and i saw it on on the tv and i saw it in the pot and the truths that i that i reposted that i retruthed and so he has no fucking ideas all you have to do is look if everyone would just look at what i looked at you'd know that it was crooked i think it's a you're asking for evidence you know i don't have that fuck you i'm making it up on television you know that so mad about the rain as if she's making it rain he also did the because it was too long we didn't play it but he did the whole thing again on where

[25:11] The FBI was standing outside sending people in to the to the Capitol. It's like you were fucking president, dog. They only pleaded guilty because they were threatened with jail. What are you talking about? They're on video beating up cops. Yeah. Everyone has knocked down this dumb conspiracy that the FBI somehow set up the January 6th rioters. [25:29] The FBI that was under the control of Donald Trump on the slush fund. We'll start there, then we can get to the fraud in California. We talked last episode about Todd Blanch telling Congress that the administration would not be moving forward with the idea, even though Trump says still he loves it. And then Senate Republicans blocked the bipartisan attempts to actually ban the slush fund just in case Trump changes his mind. Now the House is going to give it a go. [25:59] discharge petition this week to force a vote on their bill to ban the slush fund. Two questions. [26:06] You think the vulnerable Republicans who voted to kill the fund have successfully neutralized their political risk? I think that was Collins, Husted and Dan Sullivan all up for reelection. They vote and then but then they voted for the final bill. And do you think Trump? [26:24] we'll actually just let this thing die, or is this not the last we've heard of it? So he also says to Welker... [26:30] at some point. He still likes the fund. [26:33] uh... [26:34] But you have to get it approved. And if it didn't get approved, I'd be disappointed. So that's where he's at. Now, approved, he didn't claim to need it approved in the first place. So now he's hiding behind the idea of it being approved in some way. So he's sort of leaving his options open, I think, to let it go or do it in some other fashion. I think the...

[26:51] And it's very clear that they did not appreciate how big of a political problem it would be to launch this thing. Todd Blanche clearly thought he was doing what Trump wanted. He got him the nomination to be attorney general, and then the whole thing blew up. To me, he sounds like a man who is not ashamed by the fund or worried about the politics. It sounds like he thinks he's owed this. Genuinely thinks he is owed this money. He deserves this money, just like he is owed the money from CBS because of that lawsuit. [27:21] or the bribes from the tech companies to build his ballroom and God damn it, he's going to get it. And that's why to me, the political risk for all the vulnerable members does not go away because I don't think he's going to drop it. And I think it's going to be an ongoing issue. And just like to be, to be having this conversation is so politically damaging. Like this man is trying to extort us taxpayers for $1.8 billion to pay off [27:44] People who beat up cops. That is crazy. This is the taxpayer-funded transition surgery for prisoners issue from 2024 in the 2026 midterms. I have not seen a poll yet about this, but throw in a poll $1.8 billion from the taxpayers to pay out people who were convicted criminals on camera trying to murder cops. [28:10] That's what we're doing. That's where taxpayer money's going at a time of inflation and high gas prices. And also for like Susan Collins and John Husted and Dan Sullivan, they...

[28:23] voted for the bill. [28:24] They voted for the they tried to, you know, vote for the provision that would block it. But then when that failed, they gave the green light to the whole bill that went forward and they didn't do anything to stop it. They could have voted again because, you know, who did vote against the final bill? Lisa Murkowski. And she's the only Republican who did. And the rest of them just said, fuck it. I'm just going to vote for the bill anyway. It is the sort of like even on the merits. This is the core of the problem of someone like Susan Collins or these Republicans who try to once in a while stake out an anti-Trump view. But for the most part, vote with the caucus, which is they are part of. [28:53] enabling Donald Trump. And the only reason we got to the point where this fund could be proposed is because Donald Trump believes that he has the Republican caucus in his pocket, and he is right. And for all their kind of hemming and hawing, all the concerns Susan Collins has shown, she is one of the [29:08] 50 enablers of Donald Trump time and time again, and you can [29:12] Go to the podium and give these statements. But at the end of the day, you support a Senate majority in the Senate. You support Donald Trump being able to do whatever he wants without any kind of accountability. So let's talk about the fraud claims from Trump in that Meet the Press interview, which, again, started with his usual bullshit about 2020, but also included some fresh material on last week's California primaries where the votes are still being counted. A reminder that everyone here in California gets a ballot in the mail, which you can return by mail or drop off in person. [29:42] And as long as you get it postmarked by Election Day and it arrives within seven days, it does get counted. That process means the count is very slow and big changes can happen late, especially in an election like this, where a lot of voters, especially Democrats, were undecided until the very end. And that is, of course, what is happening right now in the L.A. mayor's race. Nithya Raman has now overtaken Spencer Pratt in the count, and it appears she will make the runoff and face Karen Bass in November.

[30:12] AP hasn't gone with it yet, but it's definitely trending that way. This led to many Trump posts, the most recent as of this recording being, quote, not possible for Spencer Pratt to have lost the L.A. runoffs after the big lead he had. Third world nation rigged elections. Now they'll be working on a great guy, Steve Hilton. Hilton is the Trump endorsed Republican in the governor's race who's currently sitting in the second general election slot, though Tom Steyer is gaining on him. [30:42] And plenty of mega dipshits are following Trump's lead on this. Here's just a sample. [30:47] I'm not saying it's rigged. I'm saying it stinks to high heaven. And everybody knows that. California is playing around with this. But what evidence is there to prove that there was a rig? Some of these efforts are so diabolical and so far upstream, it is impossible to prove. But I think everybody knows instinctively something is wrong here. So people can just dig through garbage cans, find ballots and send them in apparently forever after an election is over. It's not OK. It's really smart. People need to go. He acts dumb. He's smart. [31:17] Randy Fine, Harvard. You went to Harvard? Twice. What? Let me check it. I'm going to check the facts. Check the facts. You just threw in twice there? Randy Fine, Harvard. Undergrad and grad. What was his... I want to know what his graduate degree is. [31:32] uh, Harvard, Harvard university, the Kennedy, BA, MBA. Wow. MBA. I was the business school. There we go. There we go. Sounds like a good time. Yeah. I mean, look, a lot of people get into Harvard, but, uh, he's smart. A lot of people don't get it. Uh, so that's the cool thing about Harvard. Um,

[31:49] So before we even get to the fraud part, um, [31:52] Thoughts on Nithya overtaking Pratt? It's a bad day for Karen Bass. They thought they could have a nice little runoff where basically she got to run against Rick Caruso with a head injury. And instead, instead, instead, instead, instead, she's going to face somebody that has a hot that actually, you know, Karen Bass is unpopular. Nithya, I think a lot of people don't know Nithya, but she has a positive approval rating among people who do know her. [32:22] A lot of the kind of hyper-engaged LA voter who didn't want to vote for the governor's race to the last possible minute... [32:27] were a bunch of Nithya Raman voters that were paying really close attention. But I do think it's very good for Los Angeles because it means we now get – [32:35] a runoff with real stakes about what kind of democratic leadership we want, as opposed to what we would have had, which is six months of fear-mongering on Spencer Pratt. [32:45] Yeah, just to be clear, establishment Democrats in California are rigging the election to make it harder for the incumbent mayor to win the mayoral here in Los Angeles, but also rigging it so the statewide race will include a Republican so that Steve Hilton has a chance to become governor. It's because we know what's up here in Los Angeles. That makes sense. That makes sense. You have to love his point. [33:05] head injuries, whacked by a big crystal in the head. Now it's a real race. Karen Bass is a weak incumbent because of her handling of the fires, homelessness, [33:14] cost of living, like anger and incumbents generally. And Spencer Pratt was dominating the battle for attention for super online people. If you're a Twitter power user, if you're super politically engaged, Spencer Pratt was everywhere because our algorithms were feeding us his AI slop crap and just felt like he was all over. And that's a small slice of the electorate, it turns out, because the LA Times did a poll right before the election where they modeled the actual electorate. And that poll looks like it was pretty much spot on at this

[33:44] And so what actually happened is what I think that... [33:48] political professionals always assumed would happen, which is the MAGA adjacent candidate, Spencer Pratt, [33:55] was never going to do very well in Los Angeles, in a county where 15% of registered voters are Republican, and Trump is 55 points underwater. And Pratt was aligned with Trump. Of course that was what's going to happen here. [34:08] In fact, Spencer Pratt's campaign [34:11] was nothing special at all. And, like, you know, I think you could look at the media tactics and say there's things for other candidates to learn about how to grab attention. But, yeah, the LA Times poll that you mentioned, Tommy, it was May 28th, so, like, a couple weeks before the election, and it was Bass 26, Ramen 25, Pratt 22. Didn't get as much attention because it sort of went against the prevailing narrative [34:41] All of us and people. All of us, for sure. And then. But today it's right now it's Bass 34, Raman 27, Pratt 26. And, you know, you could see sort of Pratt going even lower and maybe Bass going a little bit lower as the as the final vote comes in. But we'll see. And it turns out that Spencer Pratt is probably going to finish. [35:01] almost where Donald Trump finished in [35:04] 2024 in this city. And now that's a bigger electorate. So like you can't, it's not exactly apples to apples, but he also, he did much worse than Caruso did. [35:13] uh... cruisers spent more money but also

[35:15] Spencer Pratt, [35:16] raised more than Karen Bass or Nithya, spent more, had crazy amount of attention and basically performed like a standard issue Republican in Los Angeles. Absolutely no better at all. Imagine if like Joe Biden had given an interview saying that like Amy McGrath's loss is because of fraud in Kentucky, because everybody loves Amy McGrath and Amy McGrath is doing incredible stuff out there. But there are people that [35:41] Like, you know, they are captivating to the kind of people that are watching really closely that are hyper-partisan. But then voters in L.A., who I think are really frustrated with Karen Bass, really frustrated with Democrats, they would... [35:54] And for all we know, we don't know, right, if Nithya Raman weren't in the race, like how many anti-incumbent votes might have gone to Spencer Pratt. I think it's a... [36:02] Uh... [36:03] I think he's a little bit more than just the kind of he got the kind of standard Republican vote. You know, we don't know how many votes for Rahman are Democrats who are just anti incumbent. And maybe they could have been Spencer Pratt voters. Right. Because they just did not want to vote for Karen Bass. But regardless, as much as people in this city are really frustrated with Democratic leadership, they're not going to vote for someone aligned with Trump who was going around saying crazy shit about about the city. [36:33] or MAGA, [36:34] The closer it got to election day, like he's I think we talked about this maybe off mic or on mic. I can't remember anymore. But he spent the weekend before the election in New York on Fox and Friends. He's on Gutfeld to calling for Nithya and Karen Bass to be jailed and then talking about how people were raping dogs in Skid Row. Like that's how he that's how he ended the race. He became more of like a megalomaniac at the end or at least openly.

[37:04] Republicans at all. Like Rick Caruso ran a race where he was at least like, I'm going to listen to both sides. Like he tried to be as nonpartisan as possible, which is probably why he ended up doing better than Spencer Pratt. But Spencer Pratt actually got more magazineing the closer he got to Election Day. So anyone was like, oh, it was a brilliant campaign. This and that's like, no, it wasn't. He had the possibility of maybe running a campaign where he had this like angry populist message and he sort of tapped into the frustration with the government. But he just fucking. [37:32] blew it as the as the race got closer. Yeah, I should say, like, obviously, I've been very insulting to Spencer Pratt. And there's a there like he lost his house. There's a lot of anger about the way the fires were managed, but he just didn't run that campaign. And I do think there's like a kind of insular conversation that happened. If you look at the map of where Spencer Pratt vote came came from, there's this kind of ring of like wealthier places around the city that that like [37:56] are people that are very online, I think very kind of like Bill Maher, Barry Weiss world kind of coded, at least like just sort of tapped into that world who are really frustrated with Democrats, who think the Democrats have gone crazy and moved too far left. Right. And there's just not that that's that is a big pool of people on the Internet.

[38:26] someone's like, oh, I've talked to some Democrats who are voting for Spencer Pratt. And I would always ask them, like, are you are they Democrats who who voted for Karen Bass last time? Or are they Caruso voters who are now Pratt voters? And you didn't find too many Bass Pratt voters out there. Right. There is a genuine frustration with Karen Bass. I personally felt that we talked about this on the show, her management of the city around the fires, I thought was really, really bad. And I think for Spencer Pratt, having his house burned down. [38:53] understandably he was channeling some legitimate and righteous rage about [38:57] all things LA and the fires. Um, [39:00] If Rick Caruso had won again, I think there's a very good chance he could have done well and made the runoff maybe won outright. Yeah. Because he had a track record. He was like, I built the Grove. And Spencer Pratt's like, I coined the term Spidey and maybe leaked a sex tape about LC. Yeah. Vote for me. He's self-evidently not qualified for the job. So, I mean, this is what was so frustrating, I think, about the boomlet about the guy was it was just like – [39:25] kind of like TMG adjacent Twitter algorithm pumped bullshit and hype backed by nothing. Well, and to your point, Lovett, about the map, it's analogous to, for those of you listening from DC or who've been to DC, like how people in Northwest DC and Northwest DC think like, that's the whole city. And there's actually three other quadrants in DC where a ton of fucking people live. They're just not as loud or as privileged as everyone in the Northwest. And that I think is what happened in LA too. It was like, this is a big, big city. [39:55] And all those places that voted for Bass, especially in southern and eastern L.A., and Nithya as well, like they're just not at Nithya's areas are definitely wealthier for sure. But there's just it's just an outsized influence and loudness you get from people in the west side that doesn't actually represent most of L.A.

[40:25] potential harbinger of things to come in November or future elections, I guess. I mean, Trump's going to say that any election he or Republicans did not win was stolen, right? It's a heads I win, tails you lose setup. I think this was kind of the perfect storm. He's had this Spencer boomlet, this expectation that just built and built and built that he was some great candidate and going to win. Then there's the California voting process and how slow it is. We'll talk about that in a second. And then, you know, this just, it wasn't like a big election night with a lot of other things to talk about. It was a lot of people focusing on this and the [40:55] And so I think what I found personally so annoying about this is how much information you can find about the process if you try to find it. Like I got in a little exchange with Meghan McCain about this on Sunday. I was bored on a flight. She's an unpleasant person who doesn't apparently want to educate herself. [41:14] you could go reporters. The counting process is live streamed. Reporters can and do go to the processing center. Um, [41:22] The general public can and do go to observe the counting if you want to. There are representatives from the campaigns observing the counting. The problems are well documented. L.A. County is the largest election jurisdiction in the country. There are more registered voters in this county than 41 states have statewide. I know. 10 million people in L.A. County. People don't understand this. It's really big. 10 million people. It's really big here, everyone. Come visit. And in California... [41:49] Most of us vote by mail. It's like 80 or 90 percent of California voters use the ballot that gets mailed to your house compared to 15 percent in Texas. And I love that because our ballot is really long and complicated. There's a lot of stuff you got to Google. It takes hours. I'm like, I'm glad I could do that at home.

[42:03] And so, like you mentioned, vote-by-mail ballots, if they're postmarked on Election Day, received within seven days, they get counted. The signature matching process can take a lot of time. Again, that's a thing Republicans like. I was going to say, yeah. I think you guys like the signature matching process. That's called voter verification. And if there's an issue with your signature, there's time to cure it and fix it. That can take time. It takes time to open the ballots, check the signatures. Like, what we should do is put more money, more time, more resources, more people, more machines, throw it at this problem, try to speed it up a little bit. [42:33] be helpful, but like [42:35] We have a lot of people here. This is how we vote. [42:37] Yeah, I mean, we have a lot of people, but... [42:41] the scale shouldn't be a factor in how quickly we count the ballots, right? Like Texas can count them faster for other reasons. I'm saying that there, I think there's, there are ways in which we can keep a postmark by election day. We keep all the kind of pro voter policies we have, and it could be done. It should be faster. It'd be much faster. Now I do think one part of this is a lot of people held their ballots because they were waiting, they're being strategic about the governor's race, or maybe they just, [43:01] weren't and just actually didn't feel inspired by their choices, whatever, people really held onto their ballots. I think that two things should happen. One, going into November in California, I think we all really need to view it as kind of a civic responsibility to get our ballots in sooner, right? Like I think we can all help by having more ballots in. And then two, so California now, counties have to count most of the votes within 13 days, or they have to notify their provisional

[43:31] but with some more resources, it should be possible that on election night, they've counted all the ballots they've already received and can put those numbers up, and then kind of the counts can be happening quicker. And that is a resource question. You have counties where they're still taking, you know, it's days and days and days after they're getting ballots that they can ultimately get to counting them. They have limited hours, they have limited space, like all of this could be resolved. And, you know, Governor Newsom, Gavin Newsom has talked about this, about wanting the ballots to be faster. I just don't appreciate when the Secretary of State of [44:01] is like we want to be, it's accuracy, not speed. I wish there was more acknowledgement that the process could be faster, what the resources would be required, because it's a huge problem. And look, there's nothing you can do to account for the fact that these people are going to accuse us of fraud. But I do think we should be able to count our ballots faster, even at this size, right? I agree. Look, that's why I said more time, more money, more resources, like we should count faster. It sucks. It's frustrating. It's embarrassing. What I just have no time for is the people who don't spend one second trying to find good information. They spread the meme that they [44:31] by their aunt on Facebook. And then like, they're like, like, [44:35] people kicking up the quote from Trump. It's like he doesn't know a goddamn thing about what's happening. There's no. Also, let's let's be clear here. The. [44:42] The reason we all want it counted faster is because we know that if it's not being counted fast enough, then Republicans now cry fraud in the election. There's no there's no civic governmental reason for it to be counted faster. It would be nice. We're all fucking impatient people and just want results really fast. But like now, look, to your point, love it. There are other states with mostly mail in ballots where you can postmark by Election Day, Washington State, Colorado, etc.

[45:12] they're all faster than us. Now they are smaller states. I do think the biggest problem with California is we leave it to the counties still. And so like Los Angeles, actually, Los Angeles County was still posting updates over the weekend. A lot of counties, just no one works on the weekend to count the ballots. They don't have enough staff. They don't post anything on the weekends and there's just not enough machinery. So I think there is no excuse for the state legislature, which is controlled by Democrats. And there's a democratic governor to pass more [45:42] signature verification process, which you could probably do as well. You could probably limit the window for curing your ballot if the signature doesn't match because you have like 20 days, I think, to cure your ballot at this point, which is pretty long, right? So there's definitely things you can do on the margin to make it faster by making it a whole state thing instead of county by county. Yeah. And yes, it is to answer... [46:06] uh, [46:07] totally bullshit allegations of fraud, but also... [46:10] we're the fourth, fifth largest economy on earth. Why are we having so much trouble doing something that other places can do faster than us? I do think that that is like, it's about good government too. [46:21] Yeah. [46:29] Posse of America is brought to you by HIMSS. ED is way more common than most guys think. Millions of guys deal with it at some point. That's exactly why HIMSS offers a straightforward way to handle it. HIMSS connects you with licensed healthcare providers online, giving you simple access to legitimate ED treatment options from home. No awkward appointments, no pharmacy lines. Just complete a simple online intake, and a provider will review your information to determine if treatment is right for you. If prescribed, your treatment ships directly to your door in discreet packaging, your own little stimulus package.

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[48:49] Go to ZBiotics.com slash Crooked to learn more and get 15% off your first order. When you use Crooked at checkout, ZBiotics is backed with 100% money-back guarantee, so if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to ZBiotics.com slash Crooked and use the code Crooked at checkout for 15% off. [49:12] Sound the alarm about what he says is conservative bias at CBS News under Barry Weiss, which led to Pelley's firing. He then sat down with The New York Times for a conversation with Lulu Garcia Navarro at The Interview, which published over the weekend, where he elaborated on his claims for the first time. Let's take a listen. [49:30] About four hours after our deadline, [49:34] I [49:36] Barry Weiss sends an email to my boss, Tanya Simon. [49:42] Two of the things in the email include... [49:47] Can we make the protesters look more violent? [49:51] Now, I'm paraphrasing. I don't have the quote, but that's what was communicated to me. [49:58] And the other thing was Renee Good's car. You need to describe her as driving toward the officer. There was a thumb on the scale. [50:11] for the president's version of events. [50:15] that I felt was a level of political influence that I had never seen in 37 years at CBS News. Did you guys listen to the whole interview and what do you think? Yeah, I watched the whole thing. The thing that jumped out to me was...

[50:34] Pelly, he talks about the bias and pushing on these stories. [50:40] CBS gave a comment to [50:43] uh the times basically saying like there was a back and forth not everything that that was requested ended up in the final piece whatever so they're saying look we had a back and forth about it but let's assume that there is some bias the the point that pelly makes is just what i take from his broader interview and the story here is that it's not just about the bias about the yeah [51:04] They just have not [51:05] communicated well. Now, I think some of this has been motivated reasoning, right? Because then, uh, uh, [51:11] Like he then... [51:12] also refuses to meet. It sounds like he did refuse to meet with them for a time as well, right? So, like, tempers were clearly high. But, like, you do get the sense, like, he makes the point that Nick Bilton, who is a friend of mine, was reading from his phone in one of the meetings, and clearly, like, that was making Peli get mad in the moment, right? And, like, so some of this is just... [51:30] People that have been accused of being brought in to be pro-Trump, to have bias, to help Ellison get deals done, and then... [51:38] uh, uh, [51:39] like sort of ham-fissedly firing people, trying to kind of have editorial opinions, it confirming people's worst expectations, and it kind of [51:46] spiraling out of control. Yeah, but look, I thought what we just watched there were some pretty damning allegations that, you know, Barry Weiss is just interfering with segments, not just in a political way, but like in a way that was not factual, like make it look like Renee Goods driving at the cops pretty clearly was not with your own eyes. I also was taken by just how incompetent he described the new team as being like entire episodes of 60 Minutes almost didn't make air. That seems bad. They couldn't get Tony Ducoppo a visa to cover the president's

[52:17] Also pretty big deal. Pretty bad. Pelley also overtly uses the words. He accuses CBS of paying a multibillion dollar bribe to President Trump when they settled the lawsuit around the 60 minutes edit of Kamala Harris's interview. And so, look, like, you know, I don't know Barry Weiss. Some people say she's lovely and charming. Some people think she's, you know, the devil. Like, right. The truth is obviously somewhere in between. I've met Nick Bilton before. It seems like a nice guy, good author, smart screenwriter. [52:47] and seemingly have no business overseeing the most successful TV news show at this network. I mean, Barry Weiss is the editor-in-chief of CBS News, but Nick Bilton's never worked in TV, and he's getting put in charge of 60 Minutes, which is by every measure a success. The ratings are up 9%. They make nearly $70 million in ad revenue in 2025. It's not a thing that's broke and needs fixing, which is a lot of Pelly's point. [53:17] like, [53:18] Weiss and Bilton were brought in as part of a corrupt project that, [53:22] to change CBS News to make it okay for President Trump in some way to grease the Paramount Skydance merger or whatever merger they want to do in the future. That's what I think Pelley thinks happened here. And there were times in this interview where it can seem a little pompous and sound like self-righteous and it's very emotional, right? Like Pelley seems to compare himself to like a... [53:43] veterans in combat at one point, which is a little odd. Refers to 60 Minutes as his spouse being murdered. Yeah, so it's very emotional, but clearly this guy who loves his job, never wanted to do anything else, never wanted to leave, seemingly didn't think he'd get fired even when he...

[53:58] lit his new boss on fire in front of the entire group. But it's worth the listen, I think. He also, I think, gets most emotional... [54:06] when he's talking about Tanya Simon and some of the other people who've been fired and who have been treated poorly, which I think is telling. I actually think that, [54:16] If you took Trump out of the equation, [54:18] I think Barry Weiss still would have sent that email, those emails about Renee Good, because this could be happening. She might not think to herself, I am doing Donald Trump's bidding. But the if anyone has experienced the free press, read the free press or trafficked in any of the circles of the anti anti Trump Republicans who are always making excuses for Trump. But they think that they're more like moral and normal and sane. It's the only people who haven't lost their minds. That's exactly to me. [54:48] Like, if that was... [54:49] Like we saw this split in the conservative movement between the Renee Good killing and the Alex Petty killing and that some of them who were who tried to, you know, push this narrative that Renee Good was driving at the cops and stuff like that. They kind of broke off when it was Alex Petty and it was even more obvious and they were like, OK, this one is bad, you know. So it actually made sense to me that Barry Weiss would do this because and I think this is probably indicative of what happened at CBS and why 60 Minutes and the people at 60 Minutes were so angry is I think Barry Weiss came in. [55:19] I-- [55:20] Having seen Nick Bilton's tweets and commentary here and there, I think he's someone who's like, "Okay, the libs have gone crazy, too." They both get in there and they're thinking, "This is another evidence of liberal media that we've got to fix." And I'm sure the staff at 60 Minutes and the reporters there are like, "You know what? We take our jobs very fucking seriously and do really good reporting and fact check it a lot. And we don't consider ourselves part of the liberal media bias." And so I think there was probably that clash.

[55:47] between ideologies. There's, I think, a revealing point where, at some point, Barry White says, if you're not biased, why does the country think you're biased, right? Which is an article of faith. They're like, well, what's the evidence for that, right? And so, look, like, [56:00] Scott Pelley in that clip is paraphrasing an email he didn't see, right? Like that is like, I don't know what the exact text of it is. I don't know how they're, I am sure it was trying to push it sort of more kind of in a way that was sort of like more favorable to the Trump version of events, but the non-liberal version of events. It was the, it was the entire right-wing media ecosystem version of events. But the other thing that's strange about this interview, right, is... [56:24] he, I mean, he wants Barry Weiss fire, right? He, uh, [56:28] But he also has a lot of like nice words to say about Ellison, which is really strange. Right. And and what I took from this interview is like he's like, oh, we were excited when Ellison came to the newsroom. He greeted us. He called me, sir. Right. Like there's this way in which what I was wondering when I was watching the interview, is this somebody who is trying to get Barry Weiss shit canned and then someone who can go back to CBS? And he's saying to he's saying to Ellison, hey, I'm not a problem if Barry Weiss isn't there. Right. You're good. [56:56] Barry Weiss is, I'm not your problem. Barry Weiss is your problem because now I'm talking about how great you were when you came and she's the one that's got to go. Um, [57:04] So I thought that was sort of like, because if Barry Weiss is part of some... [57:08] Ellison project to kind of grease the skids for a deal, right? It would be Ellison at fault too, but that's not how Pelley talks about it. What he says about David Ellison is this guy, look, he's pissed at Sherry Redstone for cutting the deal with Trump and paying the bribe to make the lawsuit go away. The lawsuit was obviously bullshit. And I think he views that as unforgivable than it permanently damaged 60 minutes. And so he's like, look, a new guy came in, had some money, had some political SWAT. Like,

[57:34] we're all good there. If you want to support our project here and you've got the balls to stand up to people, I'm there with you. It could be strategic and then he's trying to divide the two of them. I found that interesting too and pretty notable and maybe believable. [57:51] He's not dealing with David Ellison. He's dealing with Barry Weiss. You can be nice to the boss's boss who when they greet you is like, hi sir, nice to meet you. And then Barry Weiss is the one who's [58:02] murdering 60 minutes right right elson and then and then also nick bilton who she just sent in with and didn't even go to the meeting herself and just made him deal with it yeah look i stand with nick look i [58:15] uh you go to that first meeting you think all right i'm gonna kiss everybody's ass and get every back get her back on side like oh fuck this guy is mad could you imagine i'm just like trying to imagine too like where you're just you're on you're at your first day at work and scott pelly one of the most famous journalists in the world is like you're murdering the most beautiful thing that any of us has ever seen round of applause do you think someone's holding up the tick tick tick yeah it's unbelievable it's unbelievable i just don't think that like [58:45] what barry weiss has been doing and the firings just happened right like of course like it's not like it's not like he got to the meeting and all of a sudden someone's like excuse me uh nick buildon they just fired a bunch of the staff again like i met nick a couple times he's always seemed nice but he did a series of interviews with media journalists where he just could not have sounded more pompous and insulting and like i know this is going to be easy i know everything you know wait like i'm going to be the one like uploading the video to the satellite truck is

[59:15] salon party circuit. It's the exact kind of language. There's just a whole set of them. Yeah. The point that Peli made in that conversation is like, how could you take a job like this, given the circumstances, right? And that does mean whoever is going to run 60 Minutes, if he wants to prove something to these journalists, has a lot of work to do, right? And like, Leslie Stahl and some of the other people are staying, right? And like, I'm, [59:43] I don't know what the future of this thing looks like, but I do think that a world where 60 minutes gets to kind of continue to exist. And maybe this continues to boil over into the public. And I don't know. Like if you're taking the job, right, and you've never had TV experience, you're doing it after all these firings and you walk in expecting to be given the benefit of the doubt. It's just like not what's going to happen, right? And like Barry Weiss doesn't have TV experience. Nick doesn't have TV experience. You're taking over like one of the most important jobs in all of television. They're not qualified for the job. They're just not. [1:00:13] It's not mean or insulting to say that. You never worked in TV. You are not qualified for this job. And taking it is ridiculous. And what do you think is going to happen? Give me a break. The last 10 years have been just a rash of people who are wealthy and powerful and influential, thinking that because they're good at one thing, they can be good at other things. It's a real fucking problem that we have in this country right now. Just talk to any of the tech pros. Or Donald Trump. Exactly, or Donald Trump. One last news story to get to here. We are recording on Monday afternoon, California time. [1:00:43] So how are people feeling about the decision?

[1:01:02] Quote, of all the selfish, narcissistic things Trump has done, attending MSG to see the Knicks play in person Monday night is the absolute worst. [1:01:10] These are the sentiments of none other than Ann Coulter. But the feeling also seems pretty widespread. Let's listen. [1:01:17] Since when Trump be at Knicks games, now all of a sudden we're winning. He want to be here. If the Knicks lose tonight, I blame Trump. I don't want Trump at the game. I don't want no new people at the game. He's coming to game three of the finals and I don't want him there. It has everything to do with him. [1:01:36] disrupting and contributing at the same time to the chaos if it causes the new york knicks to win to lose tonight i'm blaming him i'm blaming the president of the united states of course everyone probably recognizes stephen a there before stephen a was mace that was mace yeah steven a guest on this show i list stephen a [1:01:57] In a bright pink suit, in a bright pink tie, ranting about Donald Trump going to the next game. That's what I want out of sports media. That is perfection. [1:02:05] um you know trump is expected to be uh to to booed to be booed probably they better boo this also there's gonna be an unfavorable uh split screen with uh actual knicks fan zoran mumdani who coughed up a thousand bucks for a standing room only ticket um so that's going to be an interesting thing mumdani also uh decided to throw free watch parties in bryant park and i think two other locations as well because uh the area around msg is closed down um [1:02:32] Why do you guys think Trump's doing this? I mean, he knows the power of live professional sports, and that's the only kind of monocultural events we really have left. That's why he goes to a lot of games. Usually it's the NFL. He went to the Super Bowl. Do you think the SEC championship— He went to a college football championship. Did he go to NASCAR? Yeah, I think he's been to NASCAR. Um...

[1:02:49] So usually he's more welcome in those sort of southern NFL spaces. I don't think he will be here. I mean, he's also buddies with James Dolan, I think, the owner of the Knicks, who's a terrible guy. I was going to say, he surveils people who are mean to him at games. Always pals with the owners. Not a real player guy. Yeah, no, but like Roger Bennett and I talk about this in the interview. I mean, you guys remember last year Trump went to the FIFA Club Championship in the U.S., and he was supposed to walk up with Gianni Impatino, the head of FIFA, [1:03:19] to the Chelsea players and then walk off the stage so they could celebrate. And he just stood there. [1:03:24] and jumped with them and like celebrate with them. So he, he makes it about himself because he loves the limelight. He loves every spotlight and he will attempt to co-op this one too. Yeah. He doesn't give a shit about anyone by himself. Like, right. We know this when, when you have to decide whether the president United States is going to attend an event like that, the biggest consideration, well, first of all, you talk to service and be like, okay, what does the security have to look like? And you need to listen to secret service and especially Donald Trump. [1:03:54] multiple assassin-tignation attempts now, right? But then when the service tells you what it's going to require security-wise, and they tell you that, well, as a consequence, it's going to inconvenience quite a few... [1:04:06] Americans, then sometimes the president's like, well, do I really want to piss off that many people by doing this? Is it really that important if my going means a whole bunch of us? And then you say, well, maybe not. Maybe it's not that important for me to go. Imagine Trump would never say that. Yeah, I think he was once the game. He's gonna fuck. I want to go to the game. He wants to sit there. He wants to be booed by New Yorkers. He wants to he wants to like be the center of attention and

[1:04:29] uh he doesn't care there's gonna be two hour waits outside that a barricade whole parts of of of midtown manhattan to make this possible to cancel the watch doesn't give a fuck i mean arguably worse is when he always wants to like if there's a natural disaster somewhere and he's got to go be on the scene immediately even when local officials are like please we're trying to clean up the disaster here and we can't have a presidential visit because it's too much mess and security right now and just come later he's like i don't give a fuck he also he thinks he's a new yorker and that new york likes him and they do not [1:04:56] Well, because he's also like shit all over it when he left. Yeah, he's like, fuck New York. Fuck that. It's become trash now. Yeah. I don't think he's going to love the split screen. I hope whoever's on the ones and twos is just go, Mondani, cheers like crazy. Trump, booze. Go back and forth. Give us a couple back and forth. And because Mondani is so talented, he's going to be so nice about it, too. Like, he's not going to try to, you know, jab Trump at all. [1:05:26] be nice. It's going to be... I hope we get that. I hope we get only that. A bunch of cool celebrities who always go to games, like Timothee Chalamet and Tracy Morgan and Ben Stiller, who will be on the wood with the people enjoying the game, and Trump will be up hiding in a luxury box, kind of lurking from behind, hoping he doesn't get booed. We can't sit courtside. [1:05:45] No, it would be great if you tried. [1:05:47] walk down there people were retweeting some old tweets from uh josh hart today nix player just like shitting all over trump but he's not a i don't think he's beloved by the nicks no we also remember like trump very specifically i think yelled at or was mean to lebron james it's also like basketball it's so much smaller it's so much closer they're just like right there like it's gonna be part of the game that trump is at this game yeah i mean look at fox news and

[1:06:17] But if you like Trump, then you are allowed to have a political opinion. You can come to the White House. Maybe you can participate in an ultimate fighting championship event on the South Lawn. Right. That's how this works. Yeah. [1:06:26] Sadly, no John at that one. Yeah, Fabra didn't make the cut. It's a real bummer. So close. So close. It would have been very funny. It would have been very funny. I think what would have happened is you would have shown up at the place where you get the van to go to the thing, and someone would clock your face and be like, oh, no. I had thought that, but 4,000 people on the South Lawn, it's a lot of people to really be doing the face sheet. If it was inside the White House, I'd be like, yeah, no way. But I don't know. I think once you're at that point, nobody knows. [1:06:56] random people like celebrities are showing up all the time. You never know. We're part of some Trump drug deal. Suddenly I'm walking. I'm taking my seat right next to Vince Vaughn. And he's like, what are you doing? Loved you in the swingers. Loved you in swingers. Um, [1:07:08] It's going to be so hot and so miserable out there. I was looking at the weather for this because there's like a chance of thunderstorms now too. And it's 91 and maybe thunderstorms there. 91 degrees, like humid, bugs everywhere, awful people all around you. Imagine having to fight in that. [1:07:25] Dana White said too it's not the ideal environment to have a UFC fight imagine they're like we gotta pull it down because of lightning they don't want to pull it down because of lightning and all of a sudden you have basically a biblical event it hits that all things are possible can't wait to check it out when we come back Tommy's conversation with Roger Bennett [1:07:47] of Men in Blazers.

[1:07:55] Today's show is sponsored by strawberry.me. Think about your career. Close your eyes. Maybe it looks good on paper, but does something feel a bit off? Maybe you're stuck. Maybe you're burned out. Maybe you're ready to move up to that next level, or maybe you just want clarity on what's next. [1:08:11] That's where [1:08:13] A mentor comes in or a coach or just someone to help you figure out [1:08:17] that path to the next rung up on your journey. That's where today's sponsor, strawberry.me comes in. Strawberry.me matches you with a real career coach, carefully selected based on your goals, your personality, and your professional background. These aren't random internet gurus selling their advice. Coaches on the platform average 16 or more years of experience across 900 companies in 37 industries that have been leaders, founders, and executives themselves. And it's not just a single conversation. You have one-on-one video [1:08:47] when real-life challenges arise. Most people hit a meaningful milestone within four to six sessions, whether that's landing a new role, getting unstuck, building confidence, or finally taking action on something they've been putting off for too many years. Visit strawberry.me and start with the coaching trial today. Tell them Pod Save America sent you and get 50% off your first session. That's strawberry.me. Tell them Pod Save America sent you for 50% off your first session. [1:09:17] - My guest today is the co-creator and long-time host of the smash hit [1:09:21] Men in Blazers podcast, the Men in Blazers Media Network, really. He's a New York Times bestselling author whose most recent book is called We Are the World Cup. Buy it now. He's also an international man of mystery and a sex symbol. Roger Bennett, how are you doing, buddy? It was good until you just said that, Tommy. It's so lovely to see you there. You look amazing, man. You too. Long time no see. I'm thrilled to talk to you now because, boy, there's a lot going on. There's a lot of football, a lot of soccer in the world.

[1:09:51] cup you still have time and i cannot recommend enough we are the world cup you'll learn about the highs the lows the agony the more agony through roger's eyes right i mean we i wrote the book if you have had the memories of the world cup it will reignite them i hope you can relive them again as powerfully as you did the first time and if you're a newcomer planning to watch the world cup it will give you the depths the nuances to understand and feel all of it that [1:10:21] And Uruguayan poet once wrote, football is a pleasure that hurts. And we're about to experience all of it. Weeks and weeks of it. And I literally cannot wait. I love the World Cup. This is going to be so much fun. And so before we... [1:10:35] uh ruin this conversation with a little bit of politics at the end let's just talk soccer so starting with team usa i know they are hardly favorites to win uh the tournament but you know interest has gone up expectations go up every year for team usa uh who should we be watching and what's a good result do you think for team usa this year oh winning it tommy i know i sound to many of your new listeners that um i'm from england but i'm love america uh so profoundly and [1:11:05] a way I like to believe slips me somewhere between Bruce Springsteen and Kenny Powers. So I adore this team. I first came over here in 1994 ahead of the last time the Men's World Cup was here. It was meant to turn America immediately into a football-loving nation. It's taken a lot longer. But the United States and The Economist were just found to have soccer be the third most popular sport in the world, which is mind-blowing. Amazing.

[1:11:35] study found out soccer was 67 most favorite sport and tractor pulling I crap you not was 66 where are you now tractor pulling so to some degree the winner of the World Cup from a US perspective will be the massive fan base that it that it leaves behind we've always joked on our show soccer is America's sport of the future as it has been since 1972 like it's perpetually the next big thing I think this World Cup will will cement it normalize it. [1:12:04] football in our sporting reality, but from an actual competitive perspective, [1:12:09] POV, this is the most talented group of individuals we've ever had. But the crazy thing is... [1:12:14] You know, women... [1:12:15] kick ass, take names, win things on men. [1:12:18] in the whole history of our nation, going right back to George Washington, who I like to believe would have loved the football. We've won one knockout game in World Cup history, which is shocking for a nation like ours that invented animal-style burgers in and out, and the cronut put human beings on the moon, democracy, all those things. So I'd say if we can win two knockout games, which we stand a good chance of [1:12:48] Cup it would be an incredible result in that this World Cup is going to be big whether the US do well or not but the US boys will write their narrative into it which is critical Is Christian Pulisic the one we're watching most or what other names should we be looking at? Christian Pulisic is if you're a football fan you'll know he's jokingly called the LeBron James of soccer he's from Hershey Pennsylvania he was the prince that was promised he broke through into this team when he was 70

[1:13:18] talented outfield player we've ever had. [1:13:21] in terms of his accomplishments in European football. He's a very sensitive human being. He needs to love and be loved. I just went on first take with Stephen A. Smith and compared him to Trey Young as a player that can do unbelievable things if he feels great. Stephen A. Smith slapped me down, went mad. That's a terrible comparison, he said, and then went off on Trey Young for a long, long period of time. [1:13:44] But I'll stand by it. And then there's so many remarkable human beings. I really do root for this team as individuals. It was a beautiful man. [1:13:53] Chris Richards, son of Alabama, Birmingham, Alabama, SEC country, Roll Tide, who must have been a big fish on every playing field he was in. [1:14:03] um in alabama then went over as a teen to one of the greatest teams in the world by munich suddenly became a tiny fish in an enormous trout form kind of lost all of his confidence got complete cultural dislocation but has been able tenaciously to resummon um his presence as a defender kind of like a lockdown cornerback now in the premier league he's won things still a sweet soft soulful [1:14:33] like him that I root for. One touch, one goal, one moment. The commercial upside for this World Cup to become the face of this team, to have a TikTok that goes viral because of something beautiful that you do. It's a diverse team. I think they're a great face of our nation. They're led by a manager, an Argentinian, Mauricio Pochettino, who's like a globally revered manager. He's either going to lift us up like a basketball coach going

[1:15:03] to iona state and taking them what's that guy patino yeah yeah he'll either patino it take us up to his standard or he'll bill belichick it and and just suddenly be you know chasing after uh floundering on the floor at north carolina and we've only got a couple of days for a 20 year old in syria or something like that is that the plan go to milan yeah that's exactly right you can't wait to leave in many ways yeah but we're we will go as he goes if he [1:15:30] You know, if he does his thing and raises us up, joy can be ours. Or we could be just lolloping around on the floor chasing after a cheeseburger in Hasselhoffian fashion. It could be great. It could be darkness. We do not know. [1:15:47] You have three days to find out. Yeah, well, all hope ahead of us. All right, let's talk about the big dogs, some of the best teams, some of the best players that you're watching. I've heard France, Spain, UK mentioned a lot. Like any sleepers? The UK. Or London. England. Well, that would be amazing. Tommy, can you imagine if it was cities? Oh, my God. That would be cool. The World Cup for cities. That's actually for the future. They can get far more than 48 teams in it. It would be amazing. Come on, Sarajevo. [1:16:17] England. [1:16:18] Scotland are also in it. God bless. They're coming over here with a very different goal than everybody else. Their goal is to just drink Boston and Miami dry in the first two weeks of the tournament. And I think they'll probably do it. The Tartan Army. [1:16:31] I think America, one of the joys of this tournament that I hope we get to talk about is...

[1:16:37] The world coming to terms with the United States. You're seeing it now all over social media. German fans going to a Waffle House for the first time, having their mind blown, going to lemon pepper wet. What is this? [1:17:07] Bouncing to the left and the right behind a large bus. No one quite knows why. It's just what they do. It's going to be quite ecstatic. So Scotland, England are... I mean, England are fascinating. [1:17:17] I mean, they used to have an empire... [1:17:20] Um... [1:17:21] Then they lost that. They used to have a monarchy not doing so well nowadays. They had Downton Abbey no longer on the air. So what they have is football. And they invented it. So they think they should win. They've won once 1966, which is like 1066 in the English school kids imagination. And since then, they've always believed with great surety, they're going to win very quickly crapping the bed, shattering a nation's heart. They're like Charlie Brown. [1:17:48] running at a football with Lucy holding. Apart from this time round, [1:17:52] They're pretty bloody good, Tommy. So it is quite fascinating to think of England winning the World Cup in America today. [1:18:00] when it's the 250th [1:18:03] anniversary of independence is is mind melding so we think we're going to say bye to some great players this this tournament um lionel messi it's probably we assume it's his last tournament although people said that in 2018 and 2022 uh cristiano ronaldo we'll say goodbye to him

[1:18:19] by to all of his abs maybe although he's like mostly i think he's the football player most likely to go like ted williams and putting his head in the cryogenic chamber just freeze it up those abs save them for later yeah is there a next up like so those two they're not just the biggest stars in soccer they are some of the biggest celebrities on the planet most famous people on the planet is there anyone you're watching that can fill their shoes any stars [1:18:44] that are going to transcend this tournament, we hope. The stars, young stars, and it is that there's this aged, I mean, deeply aged, we're talking about, like, footballing LeBron. [1:18:54] age. I mean, Ronaldo is... I mean, it's like 41. Lionel Messi, late 30s. This is... [1:19:05] or should be their last dance. And then there's a slew of teens coming through. Nature abhors a vacuum. So does football. A Spanish wonder child, 18 years old, Laminya Marle, who's already won. [1:19:20] massive tournaments um you know he's almost if he wins the world cup with spain having won what he's won already he'll be like alexander the great you know tearing up because there is no more uh world left to conquer um so the erlin harlan a young norwegian who is other than shaquille o'neal entering the nba and just [1:19:43] breaking backboards, shattering them, you know, gaming, game out. [1:19:48] I've never seen anyone score goals. It's like as if Dolph Lundgren was a football player of AI, created just some kind of Norse demigod. He's bringing Norway over. So there is that battle. And again, because it's here, Tommy, in the United States.

[1:20:03] this commercial hotbed of sports all of these footballers and we're spring to a slew of the the great footballers in the world they're all looking at [1:20:13] the United States market knowing one deep run, one, you know, a set of ecstatic moments. [1:20:19] The financial payoff for this World Cup commercially to kind of be what Pelé was to a previous generation, the face of the game in the United States. There's the sporting competition, but there's also the commercial competition to be that footballer. They all think they can be the next Pelé. They don't quite know that David Beckham's already won the World Cup. That man is in almost every single commercial and is not giving up his hold on our imagination anytime soon. [1:20:49] um [1:20:50] that will fill the World Cup up, like Haiti, this tiny team. [1:20:54] for whom [1:20:56] just qualifying is everything. The political chaos that's unspooled over there, which has impacted football, the football stadium, [1:21:05] Their training centre was set fire to by insurgent gangs in Port-au-Prince. The fact that they've even qualified is remarkable. They had to play all their games on neighbouring Curacao. Their footballers are brought from all over in the Haitian diaspora. Just taking the field for them is going to be just a joyous geopolitical moment where [1:21:31] The word hater is seen in a joyous spotlight, a wonderful spotlight so desperately needed. And it could be one of the most powerful storylines in the opening round.

[1:21:41] Yeah, that's exciting to watch. So, you know, you got you touched on this, Raj, like the scale of this tournament is just like unlike anything we've seen before. It's happening in three different countries. I think there's 16 host cities. There's 48 teams. I think at some point in the tournament, there's going to be six games a day. How the hell are you going to? [1:22:00] pace yourself here buddy what are you gonna do to like get through this yeah i mean i feel like i was laughing with you i already feel like i'm halfway through but it's not kicked off yet it is epic in scope three nations hosting for the first time canada [1:22:14] the United States [1:22:16] Mexico. [1:22:17] When it was given 2018, it was talked about as a unified, almost the NAFTA World Cup. Obviously, the realities have changed. It feels almost like three parallel track World Cups. But what drives me in any World Cup is the narrative, is the story, is the human wonder. The scale of it is epic. [1:22:47] will be made which apparently is the gdp of of belarus but i'm sure you knew that tommy that's probably the first thing that went into your head it's the eye of belarus yeah you know it's it um it it's really a human ecstasy 200 million people watch the super bowl we think of that as the ultimate in the united states five billion people watch the world cup what is the world cup and this is what i wrote in my book um it's like a global eclipse that emanates from the game sweeps the

[1:23:17] world instantaneously and holds it in its thrall for 39 straight days and so that's the magic of it the energizing magic what keeps me going is a sense that when these games go on we're watching human beings live out under the crucible of pressure you know human decision making what separates good players from the truly greatest decisions they make under those pressures and [1:23:43] There's going to be heroes whose names we don't even know who are going to reveal themselves. And within seconds of some kind of Kung Fu fighting S goal, their name is going to be bled out by millions of children in schoolyards across the globe. You know, there's going to be heroes who will fall in tragic comic ways. We're going to watch the greatest telenovela. And the thing I'm most excited about, Tommy, is I don't know if you've noticed it's a very dark world. [1:24:13] time of challenge. I hope when this [1:24:18] kicks off you know when Lionel Messi takes the field all of the darkness kind of is smothered it's almost like a the rational is replaced by the emotional and it's that sense of of global unity obviously an illusion obviously fleeting but knowing that you're making memories profound memories it's like the theory of my book most of I'd say 87 percent of my most important memories are located in world cups the cross-generational memories with my dad my mom my grandpa my children

[1:24:48] saying for millions around the world that conscious act of memory making that you're sharing with the planet is really what drives me onwards [1:24:54] I think we've all earned that release, that reprieve from reality, and that moment just come together and enjoy it. Just to ruin this whole thing with politics, though, I mean, President Trump understands... [1:25:04] the scale of the stage, right? He's got this preternatural understanding for the role that sports plays in culture. As we talk today, I think he's preparing to fly up to New York for the next game. Do we know, like, does he deliver remarks at any of these events? Is he going to attend games? Like, what do we know about his participation? [1:25:21] not a lot yet but football is I mean I talked about the number of people watching it is the [1:25:27] last [1:25:29] global [1:25:31] megaphone that is audible across the entire planet. [1:25:35] There's nothing like it. There's nothing like a World Cup. Even Salt Bae inserted himself into the final season. That's how massive it is. That's my favourite. Yeah, God bless. I mean, you've still got me talking about it four years later. And so, ultimately, politicians of all stripes are drawn to football and have been since the very beginning. 1934, second World Cup was held in Italy by Mussolini, who... [1:26:00] wanted to present Italy to the world, subsidize foreign travel to Italy for the tournament. The detail I love most about this story is that he made sure the tickets were intricate [1:26:11] paper cuts [1:26:12] so that fans would go home afterwards. I'd crap you not, Tommy, and be like, these are the tickets in Italy. Look what an advanced country it is. So from the very beginning, the roots of the tournament have always had a geopolitical reality. When two teams take the field, the nation's history, the nation's politics, the nation's culture takes the field alongside them. That's what gives it its epic power.

[1:26:37] Everything matters. It's not, you know, I love American sports. [1:26:42] cargo bears play, you know, the LA Rams. It's a big game. [1:26:47] it's exciting I know the narrative but when Germany plays England [1:26:56] the levels of history you know i think um was it emerson who said it contains multitudes the world cup contains multitudes and every politician knows that you know and uh president trump has embraced football um there was a tournament here last um almost a dry run called the club world cup um [1:27:19] He presented the trophy right at the end. The ritual of trophy presenting in football is that whoever gives it, it's often ahead of state, will hand the trophy over to the sweaty footballers on the podium and then step out of the way so that they can lift it up and smoke comes off and confetti blows up and then the footballers bounce up and down, waving their arms like this, which is the standard football guy dance. [1:27:49] over and then stands in the midst of them. [1:27:51] and the footballers are confused. They don't quite know what to do. There's a standard way of doing this. And then in the end, they just like sod it. They did it with him in the midst of it. It's a remarkable... [1:28:05] image. The smoke goes off, the confetti blows up, some of them are dancing, some of them are looking at the present. He knew exactly what he was doing. He knew that was the photo moment that would go around the world.

[1:28:17] and that he'd become front and center. So the World Cup contains that power times a million. [1:28:24] 2018, Putin ran the World Cup and was very front and center. 2022, it was in Qatar, first game. You and I watched. They had the Qatari leader sitting right by the Saudi Arabian, Mohammed bin Salman. I believe this is your expertise, not mine, but the two of them had had frosty relations before that. [1:28:45] to see them unite was deeply symbol like a symbol and one was even wearing a scarf for the other country. [1:28:53] So, [1:28:54] There's a story on the field. There's always the story off it and the optics, the soft power, the hard power is written all over this tournament every time it occurs. [1:29:08] famously won the FIFA Peace Prize. So maybe he could invite the new Iranian Supreme Leader to the US to sit next to him at a game and we could have another moment like the one you just described. I'm just pitching ideas. Yeah, I mean, while we're pitching ideas, I think this should be a FIFA music award, like a Grammy for like Kid Rock or Vanilla Ice. I would say you will watch this World Cup with a split lens and who is invited and where they sit is for you and Pod Save the World. [1:29:38] is a is going to be you know i'd say a sport in itself but it's not a sport that gives it a sense of a lack of meaning but that narrative will be enormous in in macro ways and in micro ways we just had vagnamora um the oscar nominated actor um

[1:29:57] Pablo Escobar from Norco's come on a show. He's football mad. [1:30:01] And he talked with an amazing passion about how Brazil wears a yellow shirt. It's iconic. You know, it's synonymous with a beautiful style of football that kind of coincides with the advent of color television. And he talked about how when Bolsonaro... [1:30:23] was president, he co-opted the Brazilian government. [1:30:26] shirt and that shirt became a symbol of his regime and Vagnamo talked about how this World Cup in a post-Bolsonaro realm is a chance to reclaim it so the narratives within this thing if you're a football fan [1:30:41] You know, it's the Ronaldo, the Messi, the Portugal, the France, the Spain. But if you're a Pod Save the World fan, you know, the World Cup is all of that and more. [1:30:52] Yeah. So there's always sort of like issues and anxieties going into these World Cups. Sometimes it's political. Sometimes it's, you know, security or logistics. This year, people were talking about potential ice presence at games. There are questions about travel restrictions or visas. More recently, you know, there's a lot of discussion about ticket prices. Has any of that deterred attendance as far as you can tell? Is the world still coming to the U.S. for these games in Mexico and Canada? [1:31:22] afterwards um and uh this one in the run-up is has been about safety fears but not just in the united states in mexican the you know the drug cartel violence the the global tensions the travel restrictions look one of the reasons i love football um is that more than any other sport it holds up a mirror to the world that surrounds it i've always loved that it's always one of my um

[1:31:51] definitive moments um [1:31:54] in life not just in football is 1986 England played Argentina [1:32:00] Diego Maradona. [1:32:02] His Argentina, one of the greatest to ever play the game, just a street urchin turned kid of gold, they call him, Pibet de Oro, in the shadow of the Falklands' War. [1:32:18] England, they were our heroes, and Argentina destroyed them. [1:32:24] One goal, Tiny Edel Diego punched it in in the era before video referees. He punched it in over a six-foot-two goalkeeper, used his hand, and immediately when asked, did you punch that in? He came up brilliantly with his own marketing. He said it was a little bit the head of Diego and a little bit the hand of God. And then when we were reeling in agony as an English nation, [1:32:48] picked the ball up deep in his own half and then just ran through the entire team single-handedly every hero he eviscerated all of them and then just rolled the ball home which kind of echoed the first goal i did that cheated because i could but i also could have destroyed you single-handedly if i wanted to and i just did that goal was an agony um and as an english human being it kind of [1:33:10] put us all in our place showed us where we were in the in the global food chain um but now it's actually the post that the the the photograph i have in my office on my wall signed by him it it makes you feel things it makes you feel alive that agony is like one of my proudest agonies it's an

[1:33:29] Thank you. [1:33:29] to have that agony so [1:33:31] Everything is always geopolitical. The run up to any World Cup in the modern period is always a human darkness. The South African World Cup 2010. The whole reporting going in was how everybody was going to be carjacked. There was an epidemic. Just the violence was going to destroy the thing. The electricity belt was not enough to power the stairs. Disaster. Why is Africa hosting this? [1:34:01] Mandela. [1:34:02] Africa presenting it to the world in majestic fashion same with Brazil 2014 the violence rioting social unrest in 2013 You know the the people rose up around games marched on the stadia every state every stadium. I was in there were riots demonstrations for Social justice for education not football meant to be a disaster and then once a ball is kicked Tommy and [1:34:30] cognitive dissonance kicks in i'm not sure this is a good thing or a bad thing to be honest but it's what happens once the little messy takes the field you know all the storyline just falls away and we kind of become mesmerized [1:34:43] by that global eclipsing. So it is a lot of global tension. It is a mirror to the world. The world is understandably challenging. But again, once that opening whistle goes, the past World Cups, everyone has gone from fear and darkness and catastrophizing to a sense of, albeit fleeting, sense of wonder. Yeah, well, I cannot wait for it to start. But again, the book is We Are the World Cup. So pick up a copy now. And then, Raj, if listeners want to just hear more from you throughout the World Cup,

[1:35:13] Where should they look? We're going to find it. Tommy, we're headed to you tomorrow. We're going to L.A. We have a bus in the style of John Madden, a big orange bus. We're driving it across country. Can't tell if this is the greatest idea we've ever had or the worst. We'll find out. Starting in L.A. [1:35:29] We're going up to Seattle. [1:35:31] Coming back to LA, we're doing, and then going across the country through Texas to Atlanta, we're going to be doing college game days before the biggest game, starting with the United States. We're going to be on Santa Monica Pier tomorrow. [1:35:44] on that first us game on the 12th with rob mack and then we're going up to seattle where we've got john green the great the greatest novelist i think everyone would agree old skittles your man the greatest seahawk of all time it's going to be joining us um and more and then back to la and then we're going across and i will say as we go across [1:36:07] Um... [1:36:08] This is a wild time, Tommy. [1:36:11] Sports fans in America will be turned on to football for the first time. America loves a circus. They love an excuse to daytime drink. They love, you know, mass desire to cut work, which is approved for 39 days. But I will say seeing these fans and there will be thousands of fans coming in. There have been. [1:36:32] travel bans, you know, there are some teams who have no fans able to get visas because of the modern reality they've been caught up in, in that issue. So like Haiti, Iran, Senegal, Ivory Coast, but there are thousands and thousands of fans coming and,

[1:36:51] This moment for 39 days for the world to shine a spotlight on not just L.A., San Francisco, Seattle, but cities like Houston, which are about to be beloved. When the world finds lemon pepper wet in Atlanta, when there's 20,000 Argentinians running around Kansas City tasting Arthur Bryant slaps and going, [1:37:21] this time. That to me is a hope how America can be a winner for 39 days, showing a face of ourselves which is meaningful and warm and welcoming and filled with a kind of joy I once saw from afar from Liverpool. It's going to be beautiful. I can't wait for a bunch of Europeans to try Dunkin' Donuts when they get to Boston for the first time. Raj, great to see you. Great to talk with you. Good luck with this tournament, buddy. I'm excited [1:37:51] beautiful. I'm really, really excited to be of courage. That's our show for today. Thanks to Roger Bennett for coming on. Alex and I will be back with a new show on Friday. Bye, everyone. [1:38:19] you